Click on the link below and see how much evil has been committed in the holy name of the all-loving, merciful God. http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm
Whew! Thank goodness no mention was made of the kind acts Christians have done over the ages as well because that would make for a balanced perspective, which we definitely can't have. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! In that case, the argument actually has a leg to stand on because it fairly shows one side.
Well, I can't say that no good has been done in the name of God. But my point is that everything done in the name of God should be good, cuz God is supposed to be the Ultimate Good.
Of course, how can one disagree with you. When the son of a caring mother gets into a fight at school, I suppose it's also merely a reflection of an agressive mother.. Or when you get into a car crash for driving too fast, it is only logical to blame the car manufacturer because they are the "ultimate" source of the car.
Exactly what are you trying to prove by saying this? Sorry to say this, but right now, I'm laughing at that rediculous reasoning.
It is a common misconception that the actions of those who SAY they adhere to a certain belief reflect that belief which they claim to have. I guarantee that those terrible actions performed in the name of Christianity were, in fact, wrought by those who did not understand what Christianity teaches. In fact, Christianity teaches to love your enemy. It teaches to love your neighbor as yourself. Those who claim to be Christian, but do not adhere to such ideas cannot rightly call themselves Christian. To be Christian is to follow the path of Christ. This means to endure every form of evil that is wrought against you without complaint or retaliation. This is what Christ did. The Muslims who crashed themselves into the WTC towers also did not understand the teachings of their religion. Because of their claim that they acted for Allah, there was a widespread impression that the Muslim religion was terrible because it supported such actions. Nothing could be further from the truth. Those men were radicals. I guarantee that those historical figures of abominations performed by Christians were not done by true Christians. The Crusades. This is one thing that most people will throw in the faces of Christians. However, most of the warriors involved in the crusades were greedy nobles, non-christians seeking riches, fame and glory in the war. It was a war enacted by the pope of the time, yes. However, since that time, the Christian Church (or at least the Catholic Church) has apologized for the bloodshed and horror of those wars. Granted an apology can never make up for such a wrong, but the Church recognizes the wrongness of it, and would never be in support of such a war again. I cannot stress how much people are in error when they do not find out exactly what a religion teaches, whether their own or others. It is because of IGNORANCE that hatred arises, and bigotry. I do not intend to accuse you of such things, I only mean to stress that misunderstanding, misconception and ignorance should be avoided at all costs, and that it was not true Christians who enacted, and enact such wickednesses. Also, realize that with every great good, comes the possibility for great evil. Just because the name of God has been used for evil, does not mean it is not a source of great goodness. All it means is that it has been used wrongly.
What about if your neighbor tries to encourage you to worship someone else? Here's a certain passage from my mom's Bible. What say you in defense?
Aethelwulf have you seriously looked at that list? It includes some ridiculous tidbits it must be possible to get a better list than this. Whoever made that list just tried way too hard.
I don't think the tidbits are rediculous. Some of this stuff is gruesome, like the Battle of Askalon.
You don't think the tidbits are ridiculous, then you don't know your history. Take for example from the list the "battle of Belgrade" 80,000 poor helpless turks slaughtered, do you know what the turks were doing in Belgrade in the first place Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Or the 4500 saxons slaughtered, that had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with expansion of empire. My point is it should be possible to put together a list of atrocities commited in the name of christianity without making such an amateurish list filled with dubious examples.
I will give you NOTHING! DO YOU HEAR NOTHING! Muahahaha Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Sure some of it isn't ridiculous but the ridiculous bits detract from any seriousness or credibility it may contain.
Wait a minute, you're suggesting that human beings haven't lived up to their ideals at certain points in history? Uh, no shit. Wait ... I'm agreeing with SouthStar. (Vomits.)
The reason why religious wars are fought is because of the misunderstanding of the symbols of religions. Let me give an example. Two kids are learning English alphabets. One is reading "A" for ant, "B" for boy, "C" for cat, ""D" for dog........................ now the other one "A" for Apple, "B" for ball, "C" for corn, "D" for deer...................... Now the two kids fight that the other is wrong. Now the parents come, what would they say to the kids? Let us assume bothe books read by the two kids came from one publishing company, now can we blame the publisher is responsible for the kids fighting? we all fight in name of God without understanding that God is a concept. As long as were remain immature wars in mae of God will continue. Read more of these interesting and thought provoking articles in http://www.matrixjourney.com/quest.htm
Thank you Athelwulf. You are awsome. I was looking for this list on the net. You rule. I have been asked to accept Jesus Christ as my savior about 15 plus times in the last year and twice in the last month. I need a few of these to print out and hand to them so I can tell them as soon as they justify everything on this list I will convert for them. Actually I have tried to name some of the list poorly from memory in the past most recently two weeks ago citing the Rwanda massacres (last one on list) and the Christian arguements I have gotten in response are as follows: 1) They are not real (or good in place of real) Christians. 2) It was in self defense of those trying to convert good Christians into other religions. 3) Misinterpretation of God's will (oops geez God DIDN'T want us to massacre all those people????) 4) The sodom and Gomorrah arguement which states that it was an "ethics cleansing" 5) Christians must protect their own I am sure I have heard more but those are the main ones. I am listing them cause I noticed other than Southstar and beyondtimeandspace no Christians are coming forward to justify, defend or arugue this carnage. To elebaborate on # 1 arguements I have heard is that "true Christians" are pacifists and those that kill in Jesus name are veering from the faith. I usually encourage them to propogate more pacifism and convince their fellow followers of Christ to be more pacifistic. I also remind them that Jesus (although a Jew and never a Christian) was a pacifist. # 2 Usually they talk about ancient times of Christians being less favored in Rome to Jews and Pagans. I say apply this to today and the most common agurement I get is athiests (viewed by many as neo-pagans) and heterics in America being anti-Christian (which really scares me cause a lot of illegal militias in the States justify violence on Americans on the same line of thought). # 3 Like it sounds. They made a mistake in intrepretation they are human it happens. I usually argue the commandment "thou shall not kill (murder) to which they usually revert to # 1 or # 5 #4 I have only heard this a few times. It propogates and justifies violence so I never debate this one further. I think I have only heard it twice from a Christian. #5 is the most common. Modern examples include the athiest attempting to take out "One nation under God" from the American pledge, the rise of Anton Levey's Satanism, 9/11, and the spread of the Islamic religion. I use to say to the removing the "one nation under God" from a pledge cannot jusify murder, Anton Levey (if you read his stuff) was a hedonist and probably an athiest he didn't believe in the devil, 9/11 was the act of a few and in reaction to past killings by westerners in their land, and most Islamics are pacive in their propogation of faith and there must be a way to find common ground without bloodshed. I learned a lot in the 20-50 mini debates I had with my Christain co-workers and friends and drew the following conculsions to date: 1) most are inclined to absolute theism as a explaniation and instead of jusifing the murder's actions say it is "god's will" and shift the responsiblity from the killers to God. 2) Many look for moral explanations within Bible qoutes and their is a lot of bloodshed in the bible 3) most are not violent in and of themselves but are quick to either defend it or say it was mistake through God -- 4) All (every single one) was convinced of either (a) it was mistrepretation (b) not real Christian act (c) mistake or (d) jusifable and did not find it as a deterent to their beliefs. I was never able to convince any of them that Christians were capable of an evil act.
I have had this discussion many a time with other Christians and I would like to make a few observations based on this arguement. First if you person are a pacifist or dislike violence I am glad you are in this world with me...anyone who is against violence as a primary meathod of negoication is a friend of mine. But, I would contend that 1) those "false" Christian acts were jusified from the same book you look to for inspiration and this book --the Bible is filled with jusified bloodshed and violence. I would contend that their intrepretations were just as literal as yours depending on which passages you view. 2) the deistic nature (God's will) of the Bible which takes responsiblity out of their hands and shifts it to God's numbs the emotional and psychological impact they might have felt making it easier for them to commit violence because of their religious views.--ie their religion made application of it easier. 3) Your non-violence views irregardless of their justification, came from you and your soul. Not from any God. You and they too made their choices irregardless of where responsiblty was shifted. God may or may not have been the inspiration but he was not the cause. 4) with the hundreds of sub-groups under Chrsitianty there may in fact be no such thing as a true Christian only different Christians as they all believe something slightly different. If this is true how could there by any true (as opposed to different) belief?
