Is Athiesm The Answer?

Alpha,

Why do you ask?

I guess because RAW said this to you;

This planet belongs to my specie, we r going to inherit it from humans as we r theirs direct descendants.

I noticed you haven't replied to my posts...

I was getting round to it.

You mentioned the scriptures you refer to are from the Qu'ran. In that case, how do you answer these contradictions with itself:

Forgive me but i am not sure what you're getting at here. Please explain to clarify.

Jan Ardena.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Heh. Do you think it is, or might be?

OK.

What I'm getting at, is that the very foundation of your claimed beliefs is suspect. I can come up with more fundamental arguments if you prefer though.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Well I believe the concept of God was created by humans. Why do I think that? Well if God is so above us on some spiritual plane that we can't acknowledge, that means we've never seen God so therefore we created him. And since he's in a far off land, how can we know how God acts and the like? He's nice yet evil, does this and that.. how do we know? That makes the concept and attributes of God man-made.

However, just because the concept of God is man-made, it doesn't mean we're wrong that there is a God. Many theories work that way in that we try to establish and define the unknown so we have something to work with to try and achieve the knowledge of that object, action, or whatever else to prove correct or incorrect.

- N

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

personally, the reason I think god(s) are a creation of ours is because of how the concept has evolved over time.

First came worship of nature, sun, moon, stars etc. then the paegan gods came along. Later these were rolled into one all powerful god. If there is a god I'd assume there would have been a consistent and unchanging belief over time (I could understand small changes but not the complete overhauls that have happened). So much of present beliefs can be clearly seen as modified paegan beliefs, so much of paegan gods clearly have roots in nature worship. The concept of god(s) has evolved with humanity in a linear and traceable way.

None of this disproves the idea of god of course but it suggests to me that it is a construct of culture and not the other way around.

 

It's a complete lie to think of the idea of god as proveable one way or another.

 

I think "lie" is a little strong but I agree with the sentiment. Doesn't make arguing the point any less fun though.

 

Man has given himself the answers for that which he cannot explain, miracles associated with god (sun, rain, etc) and diseases and death as work of the devil rofl, silly.

 

Yaz,

Chance is but a small component of evolution, most things occur because of natural attractive and repulsive forces. A basic understanding of chemistry and the periodic table should help you here.

No that is not a proof. What if we are simply a bubble among millions, possibly an infinite number, which are growing and popping, and starting again, as in a giant bottle of soda-pop? Or what if we are in an infinite loop of expansion, contraction, crunch, and bang?

Latest cosmology theories are looking at the cyclic universe theory as being quite likely. Your conclusion is invalid and at the very least premature.

That is entirely a non-sequitur. We do not know what came before the big bang.

There is no such thing as a theory of creation, at least not in the scientific sense. Creationism is the result of admitting that we don’t know how or if the universe started and proposes an imaginative fantasy realm populated with super being(s) beyond our comprehension with vast unimaginable powers that created everything from nothing. None of which is accompanied by a shred of evidence or any indication of how such incredible things might or could be possible.

You are playing silly games with semantics. Try to understand the concept. If you propose that everything must be created then the creator cannot be an exception. Otherwise the simplest explanation for the universe is that it has always existed.

Your thinking reveals you do not have basic understandings of chemistry or physics. It’s that issue of basic attractive forces again that create order – study the periodic table as a starting point.

And when the sun eventually goes nova and destroys the solar system that is an indication of perfect order and something in control, right?

And what of the millions of others who didn’t survive? It is simple mathematical probabilities and certainly nothing mystical.

So please go to school and study some basic biology, chemistry and physics, and learn about attractive and repulsive elements, and molecular bonding, especially involving the very versatile carbon atom, and perhaps you will see how complexity naturally arises from these combinations of forces and laws.

Kat

 

JAN ArDENA, When I will come to India, we will talk in details.

Na, He who depends on god and prays instead of action shall perish. She who thinks less than he who doesn’t shall be out competed in survival of the fittest. And What gave U wrongfooly the idea of beginning evolution, are U trying to stray this debate delebrately ?

Any body who knows what exactly evolution is wont dare to ask suggest such a henius question here ( unless her ego drives her to that extent ). And even if some did he would have proposed an alternative scientific theory.

Yes and the one who has the knowledge would be able to help U more that the other who would sit in your country and pray in a temple for U Indian instead of gathering the knowledge about Ur suffering.

Yes indeed, an action completely useless, and hopelessly in a wrong direction. Infact this action is so detrimental that people depending on such acting people will have to suffer. It has actually with held human evolution in wrong direction for a long time. But not any more because I have taken this crusade to end this evil once and for all.

Me humans ? well, when I compare myself to people like U then there remains absolutely no doubt in my mind that there is something wrong with people like U.

I am so much evolved compared to U because I am a rationalist, of course genes played a bigger role but I cant say the same about my theist parents then that probably due to the missing memes that were not present at there time and I have plenty of them.

Rationalist.

We accept the world as it is and not as it seems and that includes the possibility of gods existence ( and hence I am not Atheist ( sorry guys ) ) .

Alpha is just a medium to get them the message clear. The message – “ We have the right to evolve beyond U , so stop mingling in it ” , I take those words back over my dead body.

 

I support #2 as it makes most sense

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

since matter/energy (the stuff the universe is made of)
cant be destroyed or created(you cannot make something from nothing)

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

only changed,the universe must have always existed in some form/shape or another.

www.mchawking.com/multimedia.php?

 

Alpha,

You don't want to support your claim/suggestion, then fine, withdraw it.

I can support my belief.
Can you substantiate your/the claim?

What are you talking about? I need to prove I have a concept of God?

No you need to prove your/the claim that God was originally invented by humans, hence scriptures and religions.

I think what you are saying is that God is not just a concept. If that's the case, then I would ask you to support that claim.

No that is not what i'm saying. God or anything you like can be a concept, but what i'm saying is that i don't believe God was invented by humans, hence scriptures and religion. Not only do you believe, but you claim it as fact whether directly or indirectly. This being the case i am asking you to substantiate your claim, or else admit it is only a belief.

I believe what I say, and therefore am not lying.

Is this an informal adimision that you don't know whether God was invented, originally by humans, and you only believe it so?

Keep in mind, if he was inspired or dictated to, then the bible is not an original work of it's authors.

Some would say the books were inspired by God and is the original author.

LOL, did you even read what I posted? That 'he/she' I referred to is you.

No. The he/she was referring to the "I've not encountered anyone else who would contest the issue" part of your reply.

I did not claim God is a concept originated by man. I claimed the concept of God is originated by man.

Then prove it. Otherwise it is no different to someone saying the particular concept was not originated by man.

You seem to contest that God exists, but the concept doesn't, while I contest that the concept does exist, but God doesn't.

Lets not lose sight of this discussion which is the claim that states God has being originally thought up by humans, hence scriptures and religions. What man has conceptualised since time immemorial is not my concern.

...even if the scriptures were inspired by God, it still has no bearing on whether man created a concept of God.

It would if the claim remained that God, as a concept was originally created by man, which would mean that God does not exist.

WTF are you on about?

sura 51, verse 47
"The heaven, We have built it with power. Verily. We are expanding it."

How is this relevant?

Are you kidding! This information was given some 500 years ago, or so.

There are any number of reasons they could have come to that conclusion.

Care to share?

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

How did the Dogon tribe aquire their astronomical knowledge before scientists? They claim aliens told them.

What's your point?

And it was more than a few years ago that it was learned the universe is expanding.

Over 300 years ago?

The writer wrote a work of fiction based on a true story, so where's the inspiration?

Err... the true story!

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

That is exactly what it is.

Why so?

Not the same thing, not relevant.

It's good enough to understand the point i'm making.

So what if he wasn't? And hell, even if somehow he wasn't, someone was, and there are other examples, making the proof/disproof of this one not really relevant.

My point is that you/your mindset are prepared to claim something as fact without knowing whether it is fact (macroevolution comes to mind). When scrutinized the strong atheist can easily be seen as nothing more than a religious fanatic without the concept (as you put it) of God. This group is no better than the institutionalised religions which seek to force everyone to accept their terms.

My position is that God does not exist, and that the idea was created by man, though I didn't claim so in this thread previously.

Good, i'm glad we have that out of the way.

Jan Ardena.

 

Evolution is fact. Both micro and macro (which Creationists often fail to define adequately. It seems to Creationist that micro = anything we have observed, and macro = anything we haven't observed.)
However, sadly, both are fact.
The fossil record quite clearly shows that organisms have changed over time (evolution). The theory of evolution then explains this change.

As to evidence, you asking for it merely highlights your ignorance on the subject. Anyone with fingers can type in "Evidence evolution" in www.google.com (or any search engine), and come up with hundreds of web pages.

Remember, ignoring the evidence doesn't mean that it ceases to exist.

 

Actually, our sun doesn't have enough mass to go nova. It will swell beyond the orbit of the earth (I forget how far), and eventually collapse into a brown dwarf (I think) and die.

Then that is what you are saying. You're saying that while there is a concept of God, God actually exists as more than merely an idea.
I don't believe God was invented either, that would mean the invention of the concept lead to his existance. I believe the idea of God is a creation of man, but that God doesn't actually exist (never did).

I believe the concept of God has been proven to be false, though all I was claiming as fact was that there's an idea of God which was created by humans. This does not mean that God was created by humans (which is nonsense).

This was a clarification that there was no lie because there was no intention of deciet. I believe my words, thus there is no lie in them. It is possible there are erros, but that would make them mistakes, not lies.

Oops, I seem to have misread something somewhere.

You said "I'm not interested in what he/she thinks", but I didn't name anyone for there to be a "he/she". I said I've not encountered anyone else who would contest the idea (that there's a concept of God invented by man). You should have said you're not interested in what anyone else thinks.

That's an absurd request, and would also be a complete waste of time.

Not sure what you're saying here. How could that sentence lead to losing sight of the discussion, when it was an attempt to clarify what the discussion was about?

Not only does that not indicate to me a claim that the universe is expanding, but even if it is there are any number of reasons they could have come to that conclusion. One may use false premises to reach a true conclusion using valid reasoning. Who knows what they were thinking. Perhaps aliens told them, as the Dogon tribe claims aliens gave them their astronomical knowledge. Or perhaps the knowledge was passed down from a more advanced people that previously populated earth or parts of it (Atlantis anyone?).

My point is that you claim the scriptures were inspired by God, and that's where the knowledge came from, but the Dogon had similar knowledge and you do not claim the same for them. If the Dogon didn't get their knowledge from God, then where from? And there's no reason the authors of the Qur'an couldn't have got it from the same source.

Expansion was discovered by Edwin Hubble in 1929.

Divine inspiration you nutter!

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Because your definitions were wrong/flawed, as pointed out by the definitions I referenced on dictionary.com. Christianity is a religion, and is what it is.

No, your analogy does not apply. The NYPD is a part (an arm) of the government. It's not the same, and isn't relevant because it doesn't really matter.

This quote makes me question whether you understand both the terms "religious" and "fanatic". I may not know it as fact absolutely, but I know it is likely true beyond a reasonable doubt, and until you give me a reason to doubt it, I'll continue to accept that it is likely true. Note, I'm not accepting it on faith as I haven't even fully accepted it, I merely acknowledge that it is likely true and doesn't matter so is not worth investigating until such time as it might actually matter. Further, I don't think you are adequately equipped to evaluate my mindset. You know what I've said, but not why I've said it.

Note: This was about the truth of the discoverer of pluto, remember, not whether God exists.

Hardly! Atheists don't force their beliefs on others. That is, very few generalities can be applied to atheists as a whole. While some might, most don't and it can't be said that it is something atheists do.

OK then, lets get to it shall we?


About macroevolution:

There is no difference between microevolution and macroevolution except that genes between species usually diverge, while genes within species usually combine.

 

Jan: I'm more than willing to answer the question for you, but firstly you need to provide me with some small information:

Which god?

 

Jan Arden refers to Allah, the God of the Qur'an. When I use the term God I use the simple definition: creator of the Universe.
Anything more than that is unsubstantiated and usually easy to disprove.
And just to clarify, I tend to use 'universe' to mean, the visible, known universe, and 'Universe' to mean all of existance.

 

Oh! my I'm defenetly bored today, when I see myself going almost all the way through this thread, defenetly I'm a sci-forums worm, If I can read, and read on through almost all ten pages. However the answer of this question was really never answered through all ten pages.

(Is Athiesm The Answer?)

Well yes, atheism is an answer, however how about the answer to you?, is what you have to determine for yourself. The argument flows through the non-or-existence of a supreme deity, of course. But non seem to have taken the option of answering the question.

I like to ask what if? what if atheism as we know it, would have been the norm of the world, that religion would have been determined, irrational and illogical, and that all that is unknow, is not unknowable, that with time all that we would have is reason and logic. Where would we be today as a human race, if for instance this would have been the norm when Jesus was born? Jesus perhaps would have been in our history books as some great architect or inventor of tools for the trade of carpentry. By the time of Jesus birth without the sickness of mysticism, there would have been achieved airplane flights, by the time of his death humans may have landed on the moon. We are behind the times of were we could be because of mysticism, this I truly believe, for religiousity has done nothing to advance the human race, only to stagnate and oppress, and this is shown in our history books of religious contributions to our planet.

Godless.

 

So what is the point in living?

 

To serve.

 

serve who?

 

Michael,

Why must there be a point?

Kat