Do believers think that atheists/agnostics are "bad"?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by water, Jun 19, 2004.

  1. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

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    RosaMagica,

    No. But I feel that they are missing out on a couple of things.

    I only relate person to person. I don't put labels on people. Though I have to admit that there are certain tendencies that I've seen amongst those that say they are atheists.

    Maybe not me as a person, but surely they are opposing my belief.

    No, I rather think it's the opposite, that they want to help me (if they try to give me reasons why I shouldn't believe), though I haven't met anyone outside of the net that would try to change my belief.

    No. It's not for me to judge or to give punishments.
     
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  3. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

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    Is it just me or does that sentence make absolutely no sense?

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  5. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

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    I said we don't have enough information to decide if God exists and the Bible is true.

    You said that the Bible says we do have that information.

    Do you see the problem there? No.. and that is why religion is bad. It causes you to avoid reality.
     
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  7. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

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    That verse, says what is already known. Just like a book telling you trees are green even though you live in a forest.

    (Well, I know trees themselves aren't green but you get what I'm trying ta say

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  8. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

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    Well in My Bible...
    John 1:1 What may not be known about God is plain to them, because Persol has made it plain to them.

    The first is saying, you already know, I need not explain. Unfortunately it is either wrong or not to be taken literarly (just like the rest of the Bible).. Obviously it is not plain to many of us. If it was nobody would be having this conversation.

    It should be interesting to note that cults still use this tactic today.
     
  9. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

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    5,306
    Wrong. "Extreme" athiests believe there is no god. Agnostics just realize the predicament that if there is, or is not, a god, it's all unknowable. And because of that, agnostics actually have the choice of believe or not believing in a god. The believers basically just try not to define which that they do not know unlike organized religion does. And I, myself, fit into the "agnostic believer" catagory.

    I do not feel as if religious believers oppose or want to harm me. However, I do realize that there are some that do, but I've yet to encounter that, thankfully, for living in liberal Southern California.

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    And no, I do not feel as if religious believers are bad people. Obviously there are those that are bad, but that is the small minority. Most religious believers are good people trying to better their lives and be closer to god. And for those that try to convert others, I do not really blame them because that's something natural. If someone feels as if something is helping them better themselves, they want others to benefit as well. There's a reason why Viagra is publicized ya know.

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    Time for the ranting..

    Now the only faults that I see in religious believers is their blind faith. Not their blind faith in believing in a god, but the blind faith of their religion. And by that I mean that each religion feels as if they actually know it all. They take their books and accept it as complete fact and that's silly. Go ahead and take the good things from your book and apply it to your life, but when it comes to mystical and other such profound things, when there is absolutely no proof to those claims other than the claims themselves, it makes the person a sucker.

    Those types of people are only hurting themselves. They're basically dedicating their lives to most-likely falsities and something such as god is of huge importance and has a huge impact on their lives. I just cannot imagine living my whole life a lie. And then when those that say "it all may be true", because so many other religious thoughts say the same thing, the odds are highly against them and it once again makes them a sucker. I just for the life of me cannot understand the illogicalness of them not being able to realize all that and the only conclusion I can come to is that they were brainwashed, fear the unknown, or have such high hopes that they become dedicated and then can't turn back because they're in so deep now.. just like a gambler who's lost it all and is down to their last $1000 in hopes of still winning it big. You all have my sympathy.


    Now don't get me wrong, I have nothing against those that study religion, so long as it's religion as a whole. I just do not like those that dedicate their lives to just one religion because it's insane. It's insane to confine oneself to one set of beliefs when it comes to something important, and so unknowable, such as god. If there's something I don't know, I don't know about you, but I'm gonna research the darn subject. I don't see people trying to pass the S.A.T.'s just by having knowledge in english and no other subject. Why is it that people can use logic and expand their knowledge in most important situations, yet when it comes to god -- which most everyone believes is the most important thing there is -- the're half-assed about it? Actually no, not half-assed, not even quarter-assed, they just flat out don't care even though they sure as hell will say they do and will hold and defend that position to their dying last breath. They're being lazy beyond belief learning the bare minimum to get by. Well, that's nothing new, heh.

    And yes, I do realize that religion is a huge subject and even just studying one religion takes a huge amount of time. But that's the problem right there too. Many study their one religion too much as if trying to find some hidden secret. They wind up becoming specialists due to all that time spent and while it makes them knowledable about their one religion, they actually know less about god because of that. They know a lot about little and little about a lot. About their one religion they know a lot, but about god, they really don't know jack squat and that's the problem. They choose to follow Christ, follow Mohammed, follow Buddha, or any other past prohpet's ideas, instead of god him/her/itself. Anyone but me see the problem in that? Please quit wasting your time with one religion and expand your knowledge. Why do you take that care with other tasks but not when it comes to the most important of all?

    So there's my ranting and preaching. And sorry, heh, I'm kinda buzzed right now.

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    - N
     
  10. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

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    See the 4th and 5th posts. There is no middle ground or "safety net".
     
  11. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

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    Does God like pineapples?

    That is why the truth is being "supressed.. by wickedness". It is plain alright but it is important to note that the principles of Christianity are not what is being discussed in the text. You can obviously not "decipher" that there is a triune Creator, or that Jesus is the Son of God, through nature.

    That's because atheists try to use logic to refute their claims, something that is simply not acceptable.

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  12. Q25 Registered Senior Member

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    have you already forgoten 9/11?

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    how about xians killing abortion providing doctors and blowing up their clinics!

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    and how about supereligious prez Bush who has his hand on the nuclear trigger while firmly believing that eternal hapiness in heaven waits for him and all xians,b/c he's doing gods work,
    and since suicide is not an option,
    how about a litle "holy"war to help speed the way towards the End of days as prophesied in the bible?
    do you think a delusional mf like that aint dangerous to the whole world??

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  13. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

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    You probably shouldn't have come to a science forum then, eh?
     
  14. Alpha «Visitor» Registered Senior Member

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    If you are an atheist/agnostic:
    No. When I meet them IRL, they seem to keep their beliefs to themselves, and when a conflict comes up, they usually simply don't want to discuss it.
    In some cases, in some ways. I believe religous beliefs tend to give believers a corrupt sense of ethics.
    I believe it's silly to think you can say religious people as a group are any one thing. I think most try to be good, but don't necessarily do as much good as they intend. But the same can be said of just about anyone.
    Religion itself does more harm than good though, so one could say it's evil...
    In what way? In belief systems, certainly.
    No.
    No, they say it's impossible to determine whether or not there is a God.
    It's not silly at all. I think it's silly to have faith in something there's no evidence for. Agnosticism is a sensible standpoint.
    Stubbornness? OK there. *Rolls eyes*
    Really? Even the people who don't know or don't care are against God? Pfft. *Rolls eyes again* You have some probs.
     
  15. Neildo Gone Registered Senior Member

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    5,306
    I did, and your post has absolutely nothing to do with agnosticism. There is no middle ground or safety net with agnosticism so why say that there is? There's nothing but plain truth in agnostic belief in that they seem to be the only ones to realize that we have no true knowledge of god, only philisophical stories which are the various holy texts. Just because we have no true knowledge of god, it does not mean one can't believe in god so exactly what safety net are you talking about?

    So while you continue to follow someone else's beliefs and stories and accept them as fact, I'm not going to beat around the bush and I'm going to accept and realize the predicament we're all in towards trying to find knowledge of god in that we have none. Every religious text is no more accurate than anything I or anyone else says as it's all speculative. I'm not going to assume and think up false ideas of who and what god is, but rather just continue to believe in god with my pure, untainted, thoughts of him/her/it.

    So please, show me the knowledge you have about god. Even for the hell of it, I'll let you use the Bible to do so. However, you know what you'll find? You won't find anything about god except what other people say about him, and that is all philosophical speculation and assumption that again, is no more accurate than what I or anyone else thinks of who and what god is. Since you like quoting scripture, here is something for you:

    "In diverse places it is declared with emphasis that the real end of man's existence is the attainment of the true knowledge or beatific vision of the Supreme Being. All religious rites, all mystical practices, all good works, all philosophical and scriptual studies are intended to be but means for that end. They have no value on their own, but are useful only as removing the difficulties that lie in the path; nor are they generators of the wished-for knowledge, because nothing can produce the knowledge of an object but the object itself." - Mohini Mohun Chatterji, Rome, 1888

    And just so you know, that's not from an agnostic book but rather a preface to a translation of the Bhagava Gita that also compares a few scriptures of the Bible to show similar good qualities of one another.

    - N
     
  16. §outh§tar is feeling caustic Registered Senior Member

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    It's called humor.

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  17. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

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    Yeah, you can say that and all... but in reality that's the way this discussion is actually going.
     
  18. Laser Eyes Registered Senior Member

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    92
    Since I am now a believer but formerly and for many years an atheist I feel qualified to answer both sections.

    Do you think that atheists/agnostics are doing something wrong?
    If you mean morally wrong the answer is no, but atheists are deceived and unaware of the true facts.

    Do you think they are bad? Evil? Good? Other?
    No better or worse than anyone else.

    Do you think they oppose you?
    In what sense? The answer is probably no.

    Do you think they want to harm you?
    Of course not.

    Do you think they should be punished for their disbelief?
    Of course not.

    ***
    These answers are what I would have said during the many years that I was an atheist.

    Do you think that the religious believers are trying to convert you whenever they can?
    Yes.

    Do you think that religious believers are doing something wrong?
    No.

    Do you think they are bad? Evil? Good? Other?
    No better or worse than anyone else.

    Do you think they oppose you?
    I certainly thought believers would like to change my mind if that's what you mean but I wouldn't say oppose me.

    Do you think they want to harm you?
    Of course not.
     
  19. StarOfEight A Man of Taste and Decency Registered Senior Member

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    684
    Whatever - you were using the Bible to make claims about the nature of God, which is an absurd way to approach the question, thank you for pointing out the typo, and a recitation of beliefs doesn't absolve your hypocrisy.
     
  20. Paula Registered Senior Member

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    196
    Laser Eyes

    Glad to meet another former atheist/ current believer on this forum. I, too, feel as though I can see things from more than one perspective now but I must admit I'm tougher on the atheists (working on that), probably because I've been there before.

    Peace,
    Paula
     
  21. ddovala Pi is exactly 3 Registered Senior Member

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    141
    Do you think that atheists/agnostics are doing something wrong?

    Doing something wrong? Some are, some aren't. Of course I can say that about religious people too. Extreme anything is bad. There are many athiests out there who spend all their time trying to pry people's faith away from them, and I feel that is wrong. Of course, the vast majority dont do that, but it only takes one.

    Likewise, there are many religious people out there who use religion to justify their actions, which would be unjustifiable otherwise. Instances such as holy wars (Pres. Bush in some ways), fanaticism (Al Quaida, McVey, etc) are unjustifiable period. Even the holy books of these religions condemn such actions, but people can twist the word of their god(s) / prophet(s) to mean anything that fits their agenda.

    Do you think they are bad? Evil? Good? Other?

    Nobody is "bad" except extremists on either side (athiest/religeous... so far I've never heard of an agnostic extremist). And just because extremists are the only people anyone ever sees on television, doesnt mean they reflect the true nature of their religion.

    Do you think they oppose you?

    No. Often people come to me with scientific evidense they say disproves God's existance or some aspect of the bible. I refute with scientific evidense and my own understanding of history and physics and have logical, factual debates on the subject. I never use instances from the bible to prove an argument, as this is circular reasoning, unless it is comparing something depicted in the bible to a factual event, if the debate is centering on that.

    Do you think they want to harm you?

    Extremists want to harm everyone. Religious or otherwise. Most don't, and I certainly do not wish to harm anyone. As a christian, wouldn't that make me a hippocrit?

    Do you think they should be punished for their disbelief?

    Definately not. I believe the message in the bible was "Love thy neighbor," not "Love thy neighbor only if he/she is the same religion as you"
     
  22. GuitarToadster Packin' six-string heat! Registered Senior Member

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    I guess I am atheist so here's my responses. Right down the list....

    Some religious people cannot help themselves, they feel so strongly in their beliefs that they feel the need to "push" it upon others. Otherwise no.

    I don't think they are doing anything wrong unless they ARE doing something wrong... breaking the law, etc.

    I don't think they are bad or evil... some are borderline, many are good. What I do feel is that if you feel this huge need to believe in something intangible then you are in need of help... obviously you don't feel that you can help yourself and need to turn to a book and some guy preaching to you for that help... get a couselor and move on with your life.

    Oppose me? Maybe. Depends on their attitude, wouldn't ya think?

    Harm me? Maybe. Again, depends on their attitude, doesn't it?

    I have no problem with you asking any questions at all, no matter what the topic is.
     
  23. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    I've stayed out of this conversation so far, but I'll throw in my 2 cents real quick. I do feel that religion is going to once again enter a stage of political power where the witch burnings will begin again. The liberal christians of today try to poopoo the actions of the past saying that "that was then, this is now." But the truth is the only difference is the levels at which the church is engaged in world politics. There will be a day when it rises once more to the demonic levels it once held. I'd prefer to see it gone before that happens.
     

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