technar, As a dictionary definition: Religion - (1) belief in, worship of, or obedience to a supernatural power or powers considered to be divine or to have control of human destiny. In practice it is an excuse for the gullible, self-deluded, weak-minded or intellectually vacant people to believe whatever they want regardless of any evidence or lack of evidence to the contrary. This dangerous, irrational, and offensive condition is limiting and restricting the human psyche from pursuing more productive areas that would help ensure the survival of the human race. It is essentially the exact opposite of your opinion “an integral exhaustive model of the Universe”. Religions, largely based on ancient mythologies and superstitions, answer no questions, and represent probably the greatest danger that humanity has ever had to face. Religion is the home of the lazy; the easy path of least resistance that inevitably leads to endless dead-ends. Contrast this with the more productive and healthy path of logic and reason, that often-difficult decision to dismiss that which cannot be shown to be true, the need to dismiss unachievable desires and accept only that which can be shown to be real. Religions offer what people want to believe, that there is no death, that existence is eternal. In the entire history of the human race no one has ever been able to show even a scrap of evidence that there is anything beyond death. To continue to believe such false hopes is the ultimate in self-delusion. But worse: Religions offer an arena for eloquent charismatic charlatans that love to manipulate and condition the gullible into believing their versions of the incredible supernatural fiction. Religion is something that we need to fight against. A cancer that we need to rip out and destroy before it leads to our own destruction. Cris
What few of your posts I've read Cris, I certainly thought of you better than that. Oh well. I guess I should at least give you credit for being honest. Ben
*Originally posted by Technar In my opinion, religion is an integral exhaustive model of the Universe. * That's pretty good. *Originally posted by Cris As a dictionary definition: Religion - (1) belief in, worship of, or obedience to a supernatural power or powers considered to be divine or to have control of human destiny.* SInce most religions cover the creation of the Universe from beginning to end, your definition seems rather one-sided. *In practice it is an excuse for the gullible, self-deluded, weak-minded or intellectually vacant people to believe whatever they want regardless of any evidence or lack of evidence to the contrary.* This is essentially why atheism is a religion. *This dangerous, irrational, and offensive condition is limiting and restricting the human psyche from pursuing more productive areas that would help ensure the survival of the human race.* What more could be said about the dangers of atheism? *Religions, ... answer no questions,* Religions answer all questions. Some, however, give incorrect answers. *Religion is the home of the lazy; the easy path of least resistance that inevitably leads to endless dead-ends. Contrast this with the more productive and healthy path of logic and reason, that often-difficult decision to dismiss that which cannot be shown to be true, the need to dismiss unachievable desires and accept only that which can be shown to be real. * Contrast that with the difficult decision to dismiss what the more vocal among us claim to be true with no evidence, at the risk of low marks in school and the loss of jobs at work. Contrast that also with the very difficult decision to disregard those of lower intelligence who purport to be able to define "unachievable" and "real." Of course, in Cris' case, what he defines as "unachievable" is actually unachievable for him. *Religions offer an arena for eloquent charismatic charlatans that love to manipulate and condition the gullible into believing their versions of the incredible supernatural fiction.* True, but that is only because eloquence and charisma is not required to gull those who stay "outside" of religion. Witness the absolute lack of eloquence and charisma in those who believe in evolution, for example. *Religion is something that we need to fight against. A cancer that we need to rip out and destroy before it leads to our own destruction.* Let's start with the religion of atheism.
Tony1 on atheism. I haven’t read any of Tony1’s post for a long time, let alone replied to any of them. I see them more like commercials on TV, an irritating interruption to normal service that can be safely ignored and skipped over whenever possible. But today I thought I’d take a peek to see if there had been any improvements in quality, content or style. I found this among a bunch of his usual miss-quoted, miss-analyzed and nonsense statements. This comment seems to imply full agreement with me in respect of religious people being gullible, self-deluded etc, but also tries to include atheists as equally gullible etc. I think the attempt here was to imply that because I am an atheist then I must be religious and therefore weak-minded etc. But we know that Tony1 is religious and has therefore included himself in this pot of stupid gullible people. Or is he saying that he is not religious and is therefore bright and clever. But wait, someone who is not religious is an atheist, but Tony1 thinks atheists are religious. Either way Tony seems to have determined that he is gullible, self-deluded, weak-minded or intellectually vacant. I give him full marks for an accurate assessment of himself. But what was he really trying to say? Why does he think atheism is a religion? Every religion has a belief in the supernatural. Theism in particular has a belief in a supernatural entity that is usually credited with the creation of the universe. We can safely restate theism as ‘belief in a god’, whereas atheism can be re-stated as ‘no belief in a god’. Religion is specifically a belief system concerning the supernatural, and atheism is specifically not a belief system, and certainly has no interest in believing in supernatural concepts. So can one reasonably construe atheism as a religion? One can’t, only Tony1 in his peculiar way of thinking can chain words together in the hope of making a point and then fail completely to make any sense. Like most of his statements this is a classic nonsense. His earlier statement wasn’t a mistake; Tony1 firmly believes that atheism is a religion. Does anyone else think atheism is a religion, and if so why? Cris
KalvinB, Well, thankyou, I think. I thought I was simply being accurate, and I am always honest. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! But a little over the top maybe? Perhaps. But I had just watched an analysis on Osama Bin Laden and then I read a post by Loone. I couldn’t help but observe that both used the same methods to reach their confused conclusions. It made me angry that the existence of religions has caused these sad and disturbing conditions. Do I believe all believers are as I claim? No not really since most have merely adopted their religion because that was the dominant system where they were born. They had little choice in the matter. Most do not study or really comprehend the issues involved. At best they are merely apathetic and want to just run their lives without conflict. And when the authorities seem to infer that a god exists then who are they to question their leaders. They are perhaps sheep like, but really that don’t care enough to make a stance all the time such beliefs appear harmless. But I do have an issue with those who take the extreme views and who have decided that there can be no doubt as to the existence of the supernatural and their gods. These people have closed their minds to other possibilities. Their single extremely narrow view combined with a powerful desire to evangelize represent a real danger to our future survival. However, I am not sure where you stand. I remember when you started here you appeared more like an extremist. Do you still hold an unswerving belief in the supernatural? Cris
Eloquence Tony1 Quote Cris *Religions offer an arena for eloquent charismatic charlatans that love to manipulate and condition the gullible into believing their versions of the incredible supernatural fiction.* Quote Tony1 "True, but that is only because eloquence and charisma is not required to gull those who stay "outside" of religion. Witness the absolute lack of eloquence and charisma in those who believe in evolution, for example." Darwin was well known for his eloquence. And Tony ... witness the boundless eloquence and charisma of the Holy Father ... Pope John Paul II ... representing the oldest (and by implication - most authentic) denomination of Christianity. Take care
Ever heard of the Sophites? And certainly the Catholics are one of the least authentic variations of Christianity. Oldest != most authentic. The Pope never had a corner on the Christian community. There were many many other people arguing different ideas even before Luther showed up. ------------------------------------ "However, I am not sure where you stand. I remember when you started here you appeared more like an extremist. Do you still hold an unswerving belief in the supernatural? " I believe in the supernatural but I don't blindly accept that everything presented as supernatural actually is. Ben
Religion Is like the etheric consciousness of humanity that needs to express its longing toward the non-physical reality that it came from, the universal womb. It is also as a map to both the physical and non-physical universe, life. Because all that is, is. We can find maps to everything in everything if we just look in the right way. Find cosmos in your couch....Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
*Originally posted by Cris This comment seems to imply full agreement with me in respect of religious people being gullible, self-deluded etc,* I'm amazed. I left that there, and you actually picked up on that. A glimmer of intelligence. *I think the attempt here was to imply that because I am an atheist then I must be religious and therefore weak-minded etc.* No, it's the other way around. Sort of like, religious but weak-minded, therefore atheism is your only recourse. *But we know that Tony1 is religious and has therefore included himself in this pot of stupid gullible people. Or is he saying that he is not religious and is therefore bright and clever. But wait, someone who is not religious is an atheist, but Tony1 thinks atheists are religious. Either way Tony seems to have determined that he is gullible, self-deluded, weak-minded or intellectually vacant. I give him full marks for an accurate assessment of himself.* Not bad, Cris. Allow me take back any comment that atheists are completely humorless. *We can safely restate theism as ‘belief in a god’, whereas atheism can be re-stated as ‘no belief in a god’.* Or 'belief in no God.' *atheism is specifically not a belief system, and certainly has no interest in believing in supernatural concepts.* Atheism is a belief system and a contradictory, paradoxical and, consequently, a foolish one. Belief #1. "atheism is specifically not a belief system" *His earlier statement wasn’t a mistake; Tony1 firmly believes that atheism is a religion.* You're right. It's not a joke, nor a misstatement. *Originally posted by Stretch Darwin was well known for his eloquence. * I'd read that he was somewhat reticent about publicizing his work. In any case, I missed pretty well all of his speaking engagements. I guess I'm not as old as you. *Pope John Paul II ... representing the oldest (and by implication - most authentic) denomination of Christianity. * I could imply that you are stupid. Therefore, you are authentically stupid. You're probably thinking of Catholicism. *Originally posted by Bebelina like the etheric consciousness of humanity that needs to express its longing toward the non-physical reality that it came from, the universal womb.* Your cult doesn't happen to focus heavily on sex by any chance, does it?
Tony1, I started this post thinking I should carefully explain the meaning of atheism to you. But I have better things to do than compensate for your laziness. There are plenty of atheist websites around now that give appropriate explanations for the label. Go away and do the proper research and stop trying to idiotically claim that atheism is a religion. But make sure you understand the important difference between the weak and strong positions, and realize that most modern atheists and atheist organizations support the weak position, i.e. atheism is the absence of a belief in gods. So instead of spending time teaching you I thought it more appropriate to list some church humor found on the International Atheist Alliance website. Have fun reading. Actual Clippings from Church Bulletins These are actual clippings from church newspapers It's amazing what a little proofreading would prevent: Bertha Belch, a missionary from Africa will be speaking tonight at Calvary Memorial Church in Racine. Come tonight and hear Bertha Belch all the way from Africa. Announcement in the church bulletin for a National PRAYER & FASTING Conference: "The cost for attending the Fasting and Prayer conference includes meals." Our youth basketball team is back in action Wednesday at 8 PM in the recreation hall. Come out and watch us kill Christ the King. Miss Charlene Mason sang, "I will not pass this way again," giving obvious pleasure to the congregation. "Ladies, don't forget the rummage sale. It's a chance to get rid of those things not worth keeping around the house. Don't forget your husbands." Next Sunday is the family hayride and bonfire at the Fowlers'. Bring your own hot dogs and guns. Friends are welcome! Everyone come for a fun time. The peacemaking meeting scheduled for today has been canceled due to a conflict. The sermon this morning: "Jesus Walks on the Water." The sermon tonight: "Searching for Jesus." Next Thursday there will be tryouts for the choir. They need all the help they can get. Barbara remains in the hospital and needs blood donors for more transfusions. She is also having trouble sleeping and requests tapes of Pastor Jack's sermons. The Rector will preach his farewell message after which the choir will sing "Break Forth into Joy." Remember in prayer the many who are sick of our community. Smile at someone who is hard to love. Say "hell" to someone who doesn't care much about you. Don't let worry kill you - let the Church help. Irving Benson and Jessie Carter were married on October 24 in the church. So ends a friendship that began in their school days. At the evening service tonight, the sermon topic will be "What is Hell?" Come early and listen to our choir practice. Eight new choir robes are currently needed, due to the addition of several new members and to the deterioration of some older ones. The senior choir invites any member of the congregation who enjoy sinning to join the choir. Scouts are saving aluminum cans, bottles, and other items to be recycled. Proceeds will be used to cripple children. The Lutheran men's group will meet at 6 PM. Steak, mashed potatoes, green beans, bread and dessert will be served for a nominal feel. For those of you who have children and don't know it, we have a nursery downstairs. Please place your donation in the envelope along with the deceased person(s) you want remembered. Attend and you will hear an excellent speaker and heave a healthy lunch. The church will host an evening of fine dining, superb entertainment, and gracious hostility. Potluck supper Sunday at 5:00 P.M.-prayer and medication to follow. The ladies of the Church have cast off clothing of every kind. They may be seen in the basement on Friday afternoon. This evening at 7 P.M. there will be a hymn sing in the park across from the Church. Bring a blanket and come prepared to sin. Ladies Bible Study will be held Thursday morning at 10. All ladies are invited to lunch in the Fellowship Hall after the B.S. is done. The pastor would appreciate it if the ladies of the congregation would lend him their electric girdles for the pancake breakfast next Sunday morning. Low Self Esteem Support Group will meet Thursday. Please use the back door. The eighth-graders will be presenting Shakespeare's Hamlet in the Church basement Friday at 7 PM. The Congregation is invited to attend this tragedy. Weight Watchers will meet at 7 PM at the First Presbyterian Church. Please use large double door at the side entrance. Mrs. Johnson will be entering the hospital this week for testes. The Associate Minister unveiled the church's new tithing campaign slogan last Sunday: "I Upped My Pledge - Up Yours." submitted by David Kesler, originally contributed by Julie Cummings
Sex? No Tony, that strange association is only taking place in your mind. I think sex is the ultimate intimacy between two people that loves eachother. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Hmmmmm.... Dear Tony1 *Originally posted by Stretch Darwin was well known for his eloquence. * Quote Tony! "I'd read that he was somewhat reticent about publicizing his work. In any case, I missed pretty well all of his speaking engagements. I guess I'm not as old as you." Hmmmm .... Eloquent = persuasive Reticent = reserved `kkkkk ... whaddaya mean? Don`t tell me I need bible class to understand you? Evolution is mainstream = Darwin must have had a persuasive argument for that to occur. Otherwise (Darth Vadar forbid - we might all be creationists!) Quote Stretch *Pope John Paul II ... representing the oldest (and by implication - most authentic) denomination of Christianity. * Quote Tony! "I could imply that you are stupid. Therefore, you are authentically stupid. You're probably thinking of Catholicism." Yup ... definitely Catholicism ... but how and why did your omnipotent god screw up so badly that his first church (Roman Catholic) is regarded as unchristian by the Protestant and Lutheran masses? If you can raise the dead ... surely you can get your message straight? As regards stupidity ... been there ... done that ... hmmmm ... Take care
Hmmmm... Huh? KalvinX Quote KalvinX "And certainly the Catholics are one of the least authentic variations of Christianity. Oldest != most authentic. The Pope never had a corner on the Christian community. There were many other people arguing different ideas even before Luther showed up." Firstly, why did your omnipotent god allow confusion and the subsequent arguments? Then what in Darth Vader’s name, was Constantine up to when he proclaimed Christianity the 'religion" of the Roman Empire? That religion subsequently proclaimed the official Canon and Constantine was "THE CORNER" and founder of Christianity! Remove Constantine and the Roman Church ... and you remove Christianity. Pleeeeze ... senor ... I do not understand? Please explain ... Take care
Thanks Cris For the laughs ... even though we have great comedy from KalvinX and Tony0 Take care (yup ... issa gotta small break from work!)
"Firstly, why did your omnipotent god allow confusion and the subsequent arguments? " Cause he chose to give man a will and allows them to act on it. "Then what in Darth Vader’s name, was Constantine up to when he proclaimed Christianity the 'religion" of the Roman Empire?" You are aware that Rome is not the entire world? Constantine had a good idea. It's the people's fault it became corrupted. The Catholic church removed the ability for the common man to act on Acts 17:11 which Luther demonstrated was the only reason they had any power. Once the common mad had the Bible, the Catholic church fell accordingly as they preached so many obvious lies. Fortunatly the catholic church was not the only church in the world at the time. I doubt it was even the only church in the Roman empire. The only officially recognized church, but probably not the only church. Ben
*Originally posted by Cris Tony1, I started this post thinking I should carefully explain the meaning of atheism to you.* Thanks. *There are plenty of atheist websites around now that give appropriate explanations for the label.* I would call what I get from such sites, rationalizations. *...some church humor.... Have fun reading.* That stuff is funny. I suppose it is offered as an ad hominem argument against Christianity. *Originally posted by Bebelina I think sex is the ultimate intimacy between two people that loves eachother.* But you also say love is the most powerful thing in the universe. *Originally posted by Stretch Evolution is mainstream = Darwin must have had a persuasive argument for that to occur.* The world is full of fools. *Yup ... definitely Catholicism ... but how and why did your omnipotent god screw up so badly that his first church (Roman Catholic) is regarded as unchristian by the Protestant and Lutheran masses? * It isn't his church at all, let alone the first. Catholicism started about 313 AD or so. *Then what in Darth Vader’s name, was Constantine up to when he proclaimed Christianity the 'religion" of the Roman Empire?* Making stuff up? *That religion subsequently proclaimed the official Canon and Constantine was "THE CORNER" and founder of Christianity!* If he really were the founder, it would be called Constantinianity. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; (Ephesians 2:20, KJV). *Remove Constantine and the Roman Church ... and you remove Christianity.* You'd only be throwing out the average person's cartoonish image of religion. *great comedy from KalvinX and Tony0 * Not to mention the great comedy from Shrunk.
A Classification of Religions There are two kinds of religion: natural and supernatural. A natural religion is the sole result of the human effort and, thus, is subject to the laws of memes' competition. A supernatural religion is based on information from a superhuman source and, thus, is a monopoly.
So? Is there a contradiction? Maybe I can refrase it for better understanding. Sex is the ultimate physical intimacy that two loving people can share within the physical reality. If love is not involved it´s not intimacy, it`s violation of eachothers bodies to gain personal aknowledgement. To release your fear upon another persons body, only to get it back in double.
*Originally posted by Bebelina Is there a contradiction?* Not literally. *Sex is the ultimate physical intimacy that two loving people can share within the physical reality.* The words are true. When I see your url, I keep thinking of a variation on the story of the one-eyed cat who walks backward.
