Chalaby's Fall from Imperial Favor

No I read the entire thing; I just find it really hard that you would respect a man yet want him to burn at the exact same time. I mean to respect a man is more then a mere superficial session on "Meet The Press". If you really respected him, you would understand his position, and at least not want him to suffer. What you said was odd, it makes little sense.

 

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i respect him.
but if he spied for the Iranians i want him to burn.
what is so hard to understand here?

 

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What if he spied not for Iran, but for Israel... and is a convicted embezzler? Still honorable to you?

 

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his embezzlement "conviction" in a Jordanian military court is under a big question mark. i dont think the US would choose a convicted embezzler to be the first president of the IGC - it's just plainly stupid.

as for spying for Israel... Israel is not an enemy nation... neither of the US nor any Western country. Iran on the other hand is. Chalabi met the Mossad directer and gave him some vital info, the same way he gave info to the CIA... as an ally. for your information, national spying agencies cooperate and share info all the time. does that make an MI5 agent whose info was passed to Mossad a Israeli spy then?

honourable or not, that's a judgement thing. in my eyes, he is.

i want to hear his explanation about these spying for Iran allegations. i didn't hear him explain himself about that specifically yet, but all other questions he was asked he answered fully and to my satisfaction.
for that he's got my respect.

 

None of you guys really gets around much, eh?

Ah, that's right -- he's just another automatically discountable, CIA operative.

Use your illusions; that's what they're for.

 

nice! well after that i am so pro mr g.
however, please excuse me while i bomb the shit out of your neighborhood and torture your kids

just trust me mr g. this is all for your own good. i promise

 

No, it's not. A year ago Arthur Anderson, among other independent international investigators, confirmed that $200 million had indeed disappeared from Petra Bank - co-founded by Chalabi, by the way - and that million of dollars of depositors' money had been transferred to Chalibi family accounts in Switzerland and London.

Exactly.

 

MacZ,
a link would be nice

 

Er ... um ... ah ... yeah. This is the United States of America you're talking about here. Remember us? We funded the Taleban? Worked closely with bin Laden? Propped up Marcos? And the Shah of Iran? Manuel freakin' Noriega, for heaven's sake? Ran the formerly-known School of the Americas? Coddled Saddam Hussein?

I agree, the choice of Chalabi seemed plainly stupid. There were questions about him when the $98m was passed by Congress to overthrow Iraq. One of the things we forgot when we got in with a crooked banker and politician is that he's a crooked banker and politician well-aware of how to stroke the West. We don't want bank robbers driving armored trucks; we don't want pedophiles teaching school; but we will blindly play ball with a politician and banker with questionable reputation when economic and civil infrastructure is what we wish to build.

Jeez, why not hire a mafia boss to prosecute organized crime, or a Microsoft lawyer to regulate commerce penalties?

 

Chalabi was only lauded by the Neo-cons, the state department and the CIA always hated and mistrusted the man. He is a crook, he is a liar, and he is obviously in this for personal power. Let's not have any illusions, this man was propped up by people in the US who wanted a "safe alternative" to Saddam. I suggest (if comes back on) you watch the 60 minutes interview with Chalabi...wow! I mean how much integrity does a man have when he states obvious fallacies like "Bush is the most popular politician in Iraq", he's obviously lying; who would actually believe that nonsense? This man is nothing more then a shrewd conniver and most people in the US seem to think so. Like Tiassa said, the US has an "honorable" history with dealing with tyrants, and this one was merely one in the making.

 

Er ... um ... ah ... yeah. This is the United States of America you're talking about here.
lol
the US is not perfect (*gasp*! they're human!) but i am pretty sure that there was a very thorough background check and examination of Chalabi's conviction, with the conclusion that he's ok to become the face of the New Iraq

we will blindly play ball with a politician and banker with questionable reputation when economic and civil infrastructure is what we wish to build
'questionable' is the keyword.
maybe there should be a thorough public examination of the Jordanian conviction? why hasn't it been done yet?

He is a crook, he is a liar, and he is obviously in this for personal power.
still waiting for a link..
and he stated very recently that he is not seeking a role in the upcoming Iraqi government. so much for personal power.

obvious fallacies like "Bush is the most popular politician in Iraq", he's obviously lying; who would actually believe that nonsense?
obviously...
keep reading CNN, al-Jazeera and BBC, kinderle

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i'd expect them to report the truth as much as i'd expect them to report about US construction of power plants, Iraq's booming economy at present and forecasts (it's supposed to grow 60% [WOW] this or the upcoming year, and 25% the following one), new hospitals, schools, clean water (finally) etc.
it is the same media whose 4 big TV networks refused to air an important speech by Bush from 2 days ago (or was it yesterday?) about his newly constracted clear strategy for Iraq.

no.. it's just like Michael Moore said in his Bowling for Columbine documentary about gang violence and the media's treatment of it.

i trust Chalabi more than i trust CNN. he hasn't given me a reason yet to mistrust him.

---------
edit:
well, this spying for the Iranian charge could be that reason. it remains to be seen

 

still waiting for a link..
and he stated very recently that he is not seeking a role in the upcoming Iraqi government. so much for personal power.

From both republicans and democrats, the condemnations are evident and there is reason to believe that this man was in it for himself:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20040524-121024-2803r.htm

The evidence is there, just because it didn't happen doesn’t mean the motive didn't exist. This man was to become the new Iraqi president; all the neo-cons wanted it. They realize the baggage this man carries and doesn’t want to but some wannabe megalomaniac in power now.

i'd expect them to report the truth as much as i'd expect them to report about US construction of power plants, Iraq's booming economy at present and forecasts (it's supposed to grow 60% [WOW] this or the upcoming year, and 25% the following one), new hospitals, schools, etc.
it is the same media whose 4 big TV networks refused to air an important speech by Bush from 2 days ago (or was it yesterday?) about his strategy for Iraq.

Wow how truly irrelevant can all that be? Especially considering that 9/10 consider the US as occupiers rather then liberators, (economist). The Soviets did all the same things, they failed horribly. Really all you mentioned don't negate the fact that these people's country is under foreign occupation. As long as that is a reality, the US can spent $1 trillion next year very little will change. So no Bush isn’t the most popular politician in Iraq, all indications point to the diametric oppose in Iraq.

i trust Chalabi more than i trust CNN. he hasn't given me a reason yet to mistrust him.

I am more inclined to believe senior bi-partisan condemnations then you.

 

[quotes]
you posted several opinions of several people about Chalabi's character. very informative and relevant!
everybody has critics and supporters. Clinton, Bush, Stalin...
when i asked for links i meant links that actually implicate him in embezzlement

people's country is under foreign occupation
which is finite. the ultimate goal is to leave.
Bush may or may not be the most popular guy in Iraq. as i said, i am more inclined to listen to ICG members than CNN... or to your "obviously" statements
if you take into account all the reconstruction, which you seem to ignore, you may get a little different view. well, maybe not you.. but you may see why Iraqis love the US more than CNN says they do.

 

Chalabi is a snake. I remember hearing condemnation of him a few years ago from other exiled Iraqi dissidents. At the time the criticism was explained in the media as simple sour grapes between parties but now I guess 'we' know better.
Fact is Mr Chalabi told the dreamers in the Whitehouse everything they wanted to hear. So of course they go and wedge themselves so far up his arse they're no longer able to see the light of day.
What a way to run a country

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For me Maureen Dowd at the NY Times got it in one.

America!
If you ever feel the UK needs liberating please let somebody else do it.
Thank You.
Dee Cee

 

when i asked for links i meant links that actually implicate him in embezzlement

The fact that if he steps in Jordan he is a dead man is enough for most of us. There have been serious doubts about this man, and they are warranted. Those people's opinions far outweigh anyone else’s in influence and relevance. He wanted power, and his recent “political show” is quite good, but it’s not fooling anyone. Well you yes…but most members of the intelligentsia.

Bush may or may not be the most popular guy in Iraq. as i said, i am more inclined to listen to ICG members than CNN... or to your "obviously" statements


But my "obvious" statements are obviously correct. You even agree that my obvious statement is correct, and that Chalabi is a liar (through implication).

if you take into account all the reconstruction, which you seem to ignore, you may get a little different view. well, maybe not you.. but you may see why Iraqis love the US more than CNN says they do.

Can you substantiate that, because I can substantiate that most Iraqi's now hate the US. Please stop making things up and show me real, relevant, and current numbers to substantiate this statement. The economist who is the most respected publication in the world (who is a Bush supporter even) supports my stance. So please reconsider your replies. Bush and America is detested by most Iraqi’s at this point in time.

 

Fact is Mr Chalabi told the dreamers in the Whitehouse everything they wanted to hear.
more like what they needed to hear.
wasn't the Regime Change policy initiated by Clinton?

 

Well according to new theories, (being taken seriously by the Americans) is that the US was actually duped by the Iranians into invading Iraq, and guess who was the conduit?

more like what they needed to hear. were lies, pure and simple. What else is needed to condemn this man, and his actions? What this administration needed was a "hero", and what they needed was a "non neo-con" to substantiate their position. What they needed to hear was something that comforted their bloated and over confident egos, not the truth. This administration is a disaster, my god what a disaster.

 

Iranian manipulation... certainly possible

but if you read my previous message carefully, something you haven't done, you will see that Regime Change was a Clinton Policy before even talking to Chalabi

 

Regime Change was a Clinton Policy before even talking to Chalabi

I suggest you read that "regime change" policy; it did not utter a word about direct US military involvement. It merely supported the idea that Saddam should be out of power, nothing else. The US has the same policy initiative with NK, and Iran too now. Means very little, and oth please refrain from making statements you obviously know nothing about:

So say what potty?

 

supports the "idea"?
more like "we will now take steps to change the regime"
obviously an invasion is the last option out of the several ones, but they all start with a "regime change policy"