Where's the reasoning behind anti-homosexuality?

There are four main arguments against homosexuality and homosexual marriage.
They are:
1. It's gross.
2. It's biologically backward
3. God says no
4. Gay men like to molest boys

Here are rebuttals for each.

1. Some people find oral sex gross.
2. Women who are in menopause, impotent men, and sterile men and women should not be allowed to marry for the same "biological" reasons homosexuals shouldn't.
3. Running a State based on God's word isn't the way to do things. Look what Saudi Arabia's like!
4. Lot's of people like to molest little boys

 

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It shouldn't be but it is. Chruch and state should be separate but religion influences much of social behavior. Though it has been losing its hold over time now. Homosexuality is starting to be accepted in many more ways than it was 2 years ago or 20 years ago.

 

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And the current administration is trying to destroy that advancement.

 

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Well, says you. The women at home and blacks as slave were also 'basic building blocks'...

Historically, even patriarchal societies fail at some point.

 

Homosexuality does not lead to the demise of civilizations.
Every civilization that ended has come to an end with or without homosexuality; never as a result of it.

Let's take the Greeks as an example.
Let's say the Greeks began being Greek and homosexual around 800 BC, several hundred years after the Dorian invasion. This is about the time Greek city-states evolve, and about the time Athens was built. 500 years later, the Greeks have entered the Hellenistic period, most of the known world has been conquered by Greeks. 146-30 BC the Romans conquer all Hellenistic territories.
That was almost 800 years of homosexual civilization. Let it also be noted that the Romans hadn't much against homosexuality, and continued to the Hellenisitc area until at least 500 AD. That totals 1100 years of uninterrupted homosexual rule, if not more.

 

Sure it does...if the people destroying the civilization use that as their excuse...

 

traditionalism, bad logic and instinct train us to be anti-gay.

in the first it's obvious

same with the second

the third is based in a percieved threat. hate is basically a means that the brain maintains the perception of threat over time I think. gay people do things that are outside of the acceptable parameters of actions taken by straight people, and as such i think that puts them at a point of suspicion. how could they do something like that? it seems so un-natural?!?!

unless you are motivated to overcome such conclusions, which are easily reached, you'll be anti-gay. when people concern themselves with integrity, the usually attempt to overcome limitations reached by short-sighted conclusions.


meh maybe not that was just my first reaction

 

"Homosexuality is just a form of Adultery"


so your saying that
Sexual activity with another of the same sex is just another form of Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a partner other than the lawful spouse???


WTF

 

How exactly is that? Especially when homosexual couples are certainly quite capable of being loyal to their partners?

The building block of society? Haha! You're over playing things a bit much, aren't you? None the less I won't argue that it's fairly important, however homosexuals can easily forma loving family environment for a child to grow up in, and have time and again.

Now you're just talking out of your ass. Would you care to offer up any example or evidence to support this claim?

Again, you're blowing things out of preparation. You're trying to make it seem as though we're attempting to see if the homosexual family unit can entirely replace heterosexual families in our society. This of course is ridiculous. What we are actually trying to do is merely agree that it's time to but out of people's family lives, and agree that if there's no harm being done, then who are we to assert that we can dictate what happens to these people's families? That really isn't so drastic, in fact it's quite senceable.

Yes, and the mighty European Theocracies have all failed thus far, as well, and we now look back at them as being "The Dark Ages". It's easy to say that an ancient civilization has collapsed, that's obvious from our vantage point, but I challenge you to back up your implication that homosexuality somehow caused, or even facilitated these collapses.

How exactly does nature destroy homosexuals? I mean other than just in the sense that nature destroys all of us, and no mortal man is exempt from slow breakdown through aging and entropy. If nature were some how some sort of conscious entity out to destroy homosexuals, then how is it that after all of these thousands of years they are still around?

I think that the clear implication in your sentiment is that you believe that diseases are somehow spawned specifically to target homosexuals, a view held by many who are in absolutely no place to know. Do your research and you'll realize that no one is immune to STDs, nore does any homosexual have any disease that ten times that number of straight people have.

Rife with disease and leads to early death? Since when? First off, most numbers showing higher rates of AIDS or other STDs among homosexuals come from the 70s and earlier, times before the idea of using condoms to prevent STDs was prevalent (and of course homosexuals don't need to worry about getting pregnant). Second, why only male homosexuality? Because female homosexuality turns you on? I've seen this bizarre double standard before, why is it ok for two women to be homosexuals but not too men? Quit acting on your "that's icky" reflex, and start using your brain.

Finally I'd like to really urge you to do some actual research about homosexuals. You've stated, in this post, a rather sickening array of misconceptions and stereotypes which for most other rational people died out quite a while ago. Look up sources from the APA, and AMA, and stay away from biased editorials from right-wing Christian groups out to make up stories to support their hatred, and claims that homosexuals are evil. We're all people just like you, and it's time you started treating us fairly, or at the very least stop thinking that we're out to eat your children and burn down your homes.

 

"I've seen this bizarre double standard before, why is it ok for two women to be homosexuals"

guys are on average, louder people, they have larger lungs and therefore - can shout for longer, we are simply, better at complaining. We want to see lesbians cause its twice as good as just one chick, but dont wanna see gay guys because its twice as bad as just one guy

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(btw, that post was intended to be sarcastic)

 

Haha, Ok, fair enough. I'll make a deal with you! Homosexual men will stop doing it in public where straight guys have to watch it, and you straight guys can get off our cases, how's that sound?

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Mystech, do you think some heterosexuals see the homosexual act disgusting by instinct or by social training?

I believe nature is a bit more complex than modern materialism states. Nature is not just material. In any case, murders, pedophiles, and rapists are still around, so I think the real reason you reject his argument is that you believe every action is natural, even the destructive kind. This is illogical. Someone does not use rational means to determine what is natural at a low level but their instinctive reflex.

 

I could hardly to anything more than speculate as to what causes one man to ceaselessly hate another. It's a distinction that I'm less concerned with than hoping that maybe we can find a way to make it stop, or at least to remove power from those who hate. It's much less a problem when those who despise us aren't the ones who are making the rules.

Ahh, so then to some degree morality, and what is socially tolerable should be determined by nothing more than gut instinct, and unmeasured initial reaction? Well I can see the sense in that, I mean it certainly works for animals, after all. Wouldn't it be grand if we'd stop letting our brains get in the way and reflexively lash out according to the vagaries of our whims without a thought given to it?

I thought that you were particularly religious, Okinrus. I know it's not like me to make a theological argument, but didn't God gift us with higher reason so that we would be able to resist our base impulses, and generally raise us above the civility of a hive of wasps (which are typically more ill tempered than bees, if my insect choice seems a bit unusual)?

 

I wrote a psychology paper on this topic, only I found seven myths about negative aspects associated with homosexuality. I rule. I could e-mail it to anyone who wants a peek, i think I was prety solid on most of the arguments.

 

I believe that most homosexuals are the typical moral relativist punks who lack the discipline to spit; however I believe that they probably consider me to be an ignorant redneck intolerant conservative. I would not like them to force their way of life on me so I will stand up for their rights to be left the heck alone. Because I would appreciate the same rights that several of my fellow Christians seem so dead set against giving them. I worry about the slow erosion that will occur in the status of marriages. Why not multiple wives or incestuous marriages? I do not think that what will probably occur is a good reason for denying people their rights.

 

So work for taking marriage out of the government entirely

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Replace all occurences of "marriage" with "civil union" in all the laws and be done with it. The church can define its version of marriage however the hell it wants, and people who want to get civil union licenses to enjoy the tax breaks and government benefits and etc can do that.

I really don't see the issue here, other than that "its wrong! God says no!".

But meh...rewriting laws is just too much work for our lawmakers. I mean, they just want to serve their terms then get that nice fat $20000/mo pension (or continue and pfeh).

And weasel, I respect you for your position on this, its actually pretty close to mine in some respects

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And on the nature issue...meh, homosexuality has been around since as long as history shows (and I'd say definitely longer). If it were THAT destructive to society or the human race as a whole....well I'm surprised we're even alive. Seriously, get off the nature argument...if it hasn't killed us yet there's no way it's going to kill us anytime soon....

 

I think you have to determinethe why before you determine the how. If this distaste is formed by adolescent heterosexual males proving their not homosexual subconnsciously, all this attention to homosexuality might be very bad.

Yes, the final outcome might not be pretty but guilt would no longer exist.

Depending on the type of animal, it doesn't seem all that bad. Most of the animals kingdom only seems to use lower-level reasoning in the determination of their actions. Those that have the semblance of rational thinking, such as primates, seem the most violent.

We can only use lower-level instincts, at least what we perceive to be instincts, to determine what is negative. The formulation of what is positive or negative is where I think rational thought cannot be used. Any rational process must involve presumptions anyhow.

 

You're making the mistake of thinking that homosexuality is somehow a political movement, or otherwise some form of ideology. This is dead wrong, not all homosexuals are the same, they don't all have the same views or goals, and in fact there are homosexuals who oppose same sex marriage. Trust me on this one, there's nothing more frustrating than arguing with another homosexual who has bought into the self loathing and feeling of inferiority pushed on him by a large portion of society. Have you ever heard of the Log Cabin Republicans? It's the nation's largest homosexual republicans group (that's right, homosexual republicans). Homosexuality does not make someone want to vote one way or another, it doesn't have to effect their politics. The only reason that most homosexuals support homosexual rights is because for them the battle is personal, and winding up as a second class citizen for the rest of your life isn't very appealing.

The next time you think of homosexuals being "undisciplined moral relativists" try to think of the fact that there are also homosexuals out there voting for Bush, joining our Armed Forces, and doing just about everything else a "redneck conservative" might value. Don't pigeonhole such a large and diverse group of people based upon preconceptions that you formed while watching Queer Eye, reality is never that simple and clear cut.

 

You know, most animals mate based upon their instinctual urges. In fact, wild dogs, for instance will engage in homosexuality because they are motivated by instinctual dominance behavior. Similarly, the urge to mate with multiple partners, or to kill when angered or threatened is inherent in man. Would our society be better off if we built it to accommodate these impulses, rather than curb them? What would the state of your Christian morality be in if we no longer wished to suppress all of the urges of the human body? I can hardly believe that you're making this argument, it seems entirely out of character. I'd say it's also entirely out of reason, but you yourself seem to be claiming that reason hasn’t' got much value anyhow, so I don't know how well that message would effect you.