*Originally posted by tiassa However, I must specify that the appearance of Christian understanding stems from a lack of controversy.* I'm sure that it "appears" so. The substance of the issue may well be that they have recognized your inability to stay focused. *That lack of controversy comes from the fact that the relevant issues which I oppose in Christianity do not come up 'twixt these people and myself.* Like I said earlier, they see that relevance means nothing to you. IOW, they discuss irrelevant issues with you. *But, as per the start of this digression, your lack of understanding as regards the subject of fear is so typical that, generally speaking, you're just another off the factory line.* That would mean the "factory line" is working correctly. Among other things, fear is a gigantic waste of time as you have so incontrovertibly proven.
You really do hate people, don't you? It truly amazes me how much ill sentiment comes from your Christian heart to our little Sciforum-corner of the Universe: Actually, Tony1, what happens is that when it gets to all sorts of stupid issues like who one sleeps with or what one thinks and feels, these particular Christians with whom I have little difficulty associating simply never bring it up. It's like this guy at work; four times in two days he's prompted me, clear-cut old-school television cues, to reaffirm that I find gay people sick. I have no idea what his religion is, but I'll probably never go drinking with this chap, since a fundamental notion of how to treat people is already at issue 'twixt us. If he ends up in a fight with a horde of gay bikers, I can't stand for him on that because it would only come about because he did something stupid like tell them to their face. And that's part of how I measure my friends: will they ask me to treat people poorly? It's part of the reason I have difficulty keeping positive associations with the Christians I encounter: eventually, a subject comes up that we just don't agree on. On the one hand it's fine with me, to the other that Christian can't continue to endorse my endorsement of sin. So, paradoxically, in light of your poor reading comprehension skills, I find myself making the short point long in the hope that someday you will understand a sentence. So just to ensure that we both remember what we're talking about, Tony1 (you do, after all, have a notorious habit of not having a clue), Actually, Tony1, it's because they realize that their best Christian vision lies elsewhere than human dominion; by intent or accident, they have learned not to question God on a few points, such as, "Why did you make that person gay, Lord?" Entirely possible; but, "Don't you hate that faggot over there?" or, "Don't you hate that Catholic over there?" or, "Let's go beat that turban-motherf***er for what he did to the WTC" just doesn't seem to be relevant to them. IOW, Tony1, they have a better sense of value than the average Christian. (Strangely, sir, the most damaging anti-Islamic post-WTC BS-rhetoric I'm hearing at all is coming from Christians at my work, so I'll let you know if I ever figure out why that is.) Couldn't have done it without your impeccable demonstration of one who is afraid. Thanks, Tony1. --Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
*Originally posted by tiassa It's like this guy at work; four times in two days he's prompted me, clear-cut old-school television cues, to reaffirm that I find gay people sick.* Aside from the fact that a lot of them are sick, with AIDS, thanks for sharing that. But why he'd be reaffirming that you think they're sick is a puzzle. *It's part of the reason I have difficulty keeping positive associations with the Christians I encounter: eventually, a subject comes up that we just don't agree on. On the one hand it's fine with me, to the other that Christian can't continue to endorse my endorsement of sin.* Duh. *they have learned not to question God on a few points, such as, "Why did you make that person gay, Lord?"* The reason they don't question that is that the answer is clear... Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (Romans 1:25,26, KJV). And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; (Romans 1:28, KJV). Just ask a "Christian" homosexual. They'll give you the same justification. *but, "Don't you hate that faggot over there?" or, "Don't you hate that Catholic over there?" or, "Let's go beat that turban-motherf***er for what he did to the WTC" just doesn't seem to be relevant to them.* But it is to you? * I'll let you know if I ever figure out why that is.* You figuring out "why" something is? I won't hold my breath waiting. *Couldn't have done it without your impeccable demonstration of one who is afraid.* I wouldn't label my demonstration of you as one who is afraid, as "impeccable." Accurate, maybe, but if it were impeccable, you'd have realized it yourself by now.
Are you trying to be mean, Tony1, or just stupid? Tony1 Well, you're missing the point, but that's hardly news. We'll start at the top of your spew, I suppose: You've utterly missed the point. In fact, I'll double it up with your words: But it is to you? That's the point ... oh, never mind. As I go back and try to read your post again it's making even less sense. See what you Christians do? You have the effect of behaving in such a ridiculous manner that infidels have a difficult time sympathizing or empathizing ... we cannot conceive of actively choosing to be so stupid. It's our personal pagan failings that we cannot yet descend to the anti-intellectual muck that is Chrisitan faith in order to defend humankind against its Christly hatreds. So: A) Your point about AIDS is irrelevant to the present context. I wonder why you waste our time with it. My coworker was describing a psychospiritual sickness, but it sounds more like he's describing you. B) The idea of you caring why something is won't inspire me to hold my breath. C) Are you really so afraid and so without anything to say that you consider your mission fulfilled by demonstrating your lack of reading comprehension? D) You've only reinforced my point that people are as God makes them. E) Have you a point? Didn't think so. Continue celebrating in your method of Christ, Tony1 ... soon enough, Christianity will go away and you'll be remembered for your true contribution to humanity's salvation: aiding the death of a bad idea. When faiths like yours are gone, humanity faces a bright future. Stop wishing for the end of the human race. --Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I'm attempting to deal with your issues *Originally posted by tiassa See what you Christians do?* Yeah, it's all my fault. Your toking has nothing to do with it.
Not quite, Tony1 Toking lightens perspective, and yes, it can add a variable sensation to life. Christianity, however, seems to render life quite pointless. God finds you naked and He leaves you dying: it's up to you to decide to wait around for Him to come back. So telling you what the point is turns out to be a pointless venture. Oh, well. --Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
pot and thebible Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! i had a bible once. i used the pages to roll joints it was a religious experience!
The bible, and christians have killed so many more people, have destroyed so many peoples lives that its impossible to count. The bible has been the source, one way or another, of every single REALLY horrible catastrophe in human history. The Holocaust-the Crusades, the Imperialism imposed on North and South America during the colonial era. It is the source of so much evil. The people that are involved with the church itself are not necessarily evil, its just their rulers and dictators who just happen to be in the [also evil] republican party (the leaders, not the poor F**ks who happen to follow them). You don't need a two thousand year old book to tell you what to worship. Figure it out yourself.
Bible v Koran I wonder which is the most responsible for butchery - the Bible or the Koran? I bet its a very close run result! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Evolution? I'd vote for the Bible, but I wouldn't be surprised if the final toll showed a Muslim edge in this one. It's been a rough 1,400 years for that group. To the other, if Muslims are killing more in less time, we shouldn't be surprised: they learned from the best. thanx, Tiassa Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
To the best of my knowledge I think the christians attacked the muslims FIRST in the crusades, no one can count the numbers but you must keep in mind the HOLOCAUST! Millions died in that slaughter all because they didn't believe in the same god. We must ask ourselves this: Has the bible (and the leaders who use it as an excuse to persecute)saved, really, anyone? All it seems to do is oppress people who are unfortunate enough to fall under it's jurisdiction. They become part of a collective were abortion should be considered cold-blooded murder and homosexuality is a psychological disorder. WHY??? Where does the bible SPECIFICALLY denounce abortion or homosexuality or homogenous culture?? I feel nothing but sympathy for the poor saps who actually go to church and give it power, who BELIEVE in its sexist leaders, who can't figure out for themselves what to worship based on their own ideas. If you're a 'churchie' as we (at my school) jokingly refer to churchgoers and people obsessed with religion, did you go to church based on your own free will or where you forced or 'guided' somehow? Come to the light-the real light of unorganized religion. You guys are just like republicans. I don't understand them. All the republicans I know are good people, it's just the leaders that really piss me off. They wanna let the airlines continue to check for bombs when ANYONE can bring a pistol through their checkpoints. I dare ya to try. No, I double-dog dare ya! That means you can't- not-do it. The guys in power are bad. If you're a churchgoer stop going now. Take away their power one person at a time. The old conservatives are dying out (that evil senator didn't die but he retired, I forget his name) and I think a new age is upon us, and age that is at least a step up from the barbaric times we live in.
The bible as literature Tiassa has made some great points regarding archeological finds. The Nag Hammadi scrolls werefound to be written approximately in 50 CE which is considerably closer to the time of Jesus life than the gospels, which, by the way, are now admitted by even Christian scholars to have been written by people other than those named. I have no problem with an historical Jesus. Most religions accept his existence. I have a major problem with the bible being what it is purported to be. It was "written" only after Paul's conversion and evangelism (he'd OWN the 700 club AND PTL today) proved to be problematic for the Romans who decided to accept it with their revisions, most likely to their own ends. Are you (those who quote it verbatim) aware that the inclusion of the "seven deadly sins" was added by Pope Gregory III ? How many alterations took place before that we have no knowledge of, since the practice of the day was to destroy any conflicting works in totality. Unfortunately this may have obscured many "real" documents that would help us to better understand the evolution of religion. We know that the predominant religion of Jesus time and region was the Essenic. Instead of studying the bible from the inside, try studying the history of the writing of it. And I'm not an atheist. But my belief in God is personal and logical both physically and spiritually. And has very little to do with so separatist and controlling a work as the bible. If I owned the only means of mass publication I would certainly preface it with the idea that it was the only true writing on the subject. Who could disagree? Why have some texts been left out (and I'm not even gonna touch the "Book of Mormon" although they make nice commercials)? I don't hold your belief in contempt...it's your idea of superiority that ignites my flame (e.g. Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven). What a shallow idea of God you have!
Hello wall. I'm tryin' to convince ya'... Wow! Again I'm amazed at the ignorance of fact in light of false hope (read "faith"). First of all, let us dispense with Sir Loone. His mere lack of familiarity with a spell checker should sound his inability to proffer any open mindedness. As for Tony1, his absolute dependency on the bible for any substantiation shows the clear fallibility of his reasoning. If we are discussing the validity of a source, quoting the source doesn't automatically invoke it's validity ( I apologize for the redundancy). IOW, you need outside verification. I can cite multiple historical AND factual references as to the book's evolutionary course of transcription. Add to that it's virtual parallel in many mythological realms and the only clear conclusion one can draw is that it has continued to be accepted as what it purports to be because it alleviates the fear of the alternatives. What Tiassa was trying to tell you is that it uses fear (of damnation) to get you to believe in something that will relieve your fear. And that's fine, if that's all you aspire to. Unfortunately, you don't practice what you preach. Christians tend (and I hate to categorize) to be more intolerant than anyone , yet supposedly Jesus preached tolerance. The book also speaks of the self-righteous and yet who is more self-righteous than those same christians. And they find verses to back their claims which also makes the book quite contradictory to itself. The facts that Christianity in it's earlier forms built churches on most sites of pagan rituals and has since incorporated pagan holidays seems to lend a bit of credence to that "religion" (see me later for the logic behind that). The essence of translation to follow...
Translations... Well which is it, feeling or meaning? You can't have it both ways. Feelings are what you have, and meaning is what you're trying to transmit to the other person. In fact you absolutely can have it both ways. You can transmit a meaning while trying to evoke a feeling. And that often gets lost in translations. However, we're talking about the bible which contains not only translation difficulties but also deletions and additions. Let's deal first with translation. The Hebrew language reads from right to left and contains no vowels per se. Each letter is given a name. I won't go into the whole of it but the first verse of Genesis should suffice. In Hebrew, an HIM ending denotes plurality. First verse of Genesis in English reads: In the beginning, God created... In Hebrew the word for God used is ELOHIM meaning gods. It was Moses who first conceived of the relatively revolutionary idea of monotheism. And it was backdated to Genesis. On top of that, the theory of Gemmatria comes into play. That's a numerological system concerning the true meaning or mystical meaning of words never taken into account in the translations. I hope you're getting the point... Okay, deletions...does the word Gnostic have any relevance for you ? It means knowledge, or secret knowledge. To find out about these and other gospels omitted from the final version of the bible follow Roman history prior to Constantine and the Council of Nicea and the later finding of gospels such as Thomas in 1787 or the Coptic Gnostic gospel at Nag Hammadi in 1945. I would love to see what the Vatican's secret library holds as well. As for additions, I can only speculate although I know for a fact the inclusion of the seven deadly sins is attributed to Pope Gregory III at a time when the Catholic church probably was in violation of all of them, Gregory included. So from this we can assume that "divine inspiration" (the context generally given to the bible) occurred not only at it's inception but continuously throughout history even dictating which books to exclude. Seems pretty farfetched if you ask me.
*Originally posted by tiassa telling you what the point is turns out to be a pointless venture. * A pointless point, no doubt. *Originally posted by shrike You don't need a two thousand year old book to tell you what to worship. Figure it out yourself.* When do you propose to start? *Originally posted by Red Devil I wonder which is the most responsible for butchery - the Bible or the Koran? I bet its a very close run result!* Not even close. Plain ordinary stupidity has them both beat by miles.
*Originally posted by shrike Where does the bible SPECIFICALLY denounce abortion or homosexuality or homogenous culture??* Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. (Leviticus 18:22, KJV). Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9,10, KJV). *Originally posted by Thewriter As for Tony1, his absolute dependency on the bible for any substantiation shows the clear fallibility of his reasoning. If we are discussing the validity of a source, quoting the source doesn't automatically invoke it's validity* Then again, if we are discussing your validity, there is no point quoting yourself, since that doesn't prove anything.
You are in favor of discriminating against people because of their sexual preference? People should only be disciminated by the way they think. You, Tony1, are a race of humans rapidly disapearing from Earth. Two hundred years ago slavery was allowed in the US. Fifty years ago black children had to go to seperate schools. Fifty years from now your kind will all be a nightmare that we just can't seem to remember and would rather forget.
Adultery is a sin punishable by death! Amen Tony 1!Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! "For greater is He that is in me then he (Satan) that is in the world!"
