Shiites revolt in Bagdad and south

I do not support Islam, terror and violence
...
our forces deserve, everything they are getting

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aside from being hypocritical, you seem to know nothing about this al-Sadr character whom you "do not support" but think is "fully within [his] rights to fight"

al-Sadr is a terrorist outlaw who gets support from Iran, assasinates rival Iraqi Shiite clerics, and goes against the grand leader of the Shiites in Iraq

"popular support" my ass

this guy has a well trained, extreme-islamism-inspired 10,000-strong army that fights from Mosques' roof tops, and from behind women and children

 

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Othadp, I am not very interested in the particulars, of who, or what is fighting against our forces. It's obvious whoever it is, is capabe of violence, and may have been violent before. Yet, violence begets violence, and our forces have violently occupied the Iraqi's people homeland, and therefore, the iraqi people are fully within their rights to use violence.

And before you call me a hypocrit. I suggest you do some self-introspection, because the same women and children you now speak of, have been killed in thousands by US forces, and US economic sanctions. Yet you complain, when the Iraqi freedom fighters use them as shields. I can wager, that an American troop does not think twice before firing, even when confronted with that situation.

 

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Meanwhile, the Mujahideen are doing great job in curshing the invaders:

http://www.aljazeera.net/mritems/images/2004/4/10/1_218039_1_6.jpg

 

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Off topic perhaps...
What have the Iraqis got that can do that to an Abrams?

I'm I wrong about the tank or the 'insurgents'.
Dee Cee

 

Armor precering RPG's, or if they are using the Kornet missiles that the Iraqi's had during the war. They should be using road side bombs as well, those Abrams are not as "invincible" as the US army would like us to believe.

 

they're using "Allah rockets"
really good at piercing armor

 

If Allah rockerts work why not? They are obviously doing something right.

 

hehe
when you have Allah navigating them, you can't lose!

 

You have my sympathy, Iraqis. Outnumbered by belligerent, anti-American fanatics, scorned by a complicit, agenda-driven regional media--truly, life is not easy these days in Washington D.C.

 

If the Muslim extremist came to the U.S. and took over I would fight to my last breath. I would attack their troops the police and their support structure. I would not be surrounded by children when I fought and I would not target non-political targets. I would also not use massive explosives designed to kill large numbers of civilians. I would be a freedom fighter not a common criminal

 

Thanks for welcoming me to the board. Though Im not a pacifist - I just save my war endorcements for fights I am not completely disgusted with.

Lol, and I have no inclination to go over there - that would not do any good either. Thats kind of what I was bemoaning - I think it sucks that Iraqis and those in the world who are rightfully angry at the US for what is going will hold me as an american partially responsible for it, when I have (almost) no voice in it. And I am not apologising for my country, because I dont feel responsible for it.

(please note that I said I regret the anger of those who are rightfully angry - not the wackos who are mad at us for not being Islamic)

 

those who are rightfully angry are waiting patiently for June 30.
those who are mad at us for not being Islamic (islamist actually) are shooting RPGs at US troops from rooftops of mosques

I have no inclination to go over there - that would not do any good either
who cares about "doing good". it's not any better than the West, so what difference does it make where you live, eh kikisue?

And I am not apologising for my country
you're doing much worse.

edit:
i quoted the wrong person... sorry about that...

here's another quote, this time from the right person:

you're saying, then, that US forces are terrorists.. and thus should be treated as such... right?

alright then.
join the Mehdi Army and do some rhiteous ass kicking. then move to Saudi Arabia and live under the Wahabi system

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if it's so 'equal' to our democratic system

 

Otheadp, how do you manage to misquote Kikiuse, for something I said? Slip of the finger?

 

corrected
thx

 

DeeCee,

A couple of things can take out a tank. 'Armored peircing RPGs' now that is funny. An RPG has a shaped charged war head. Great for knocking out light armored vehicles and trucks, not so good on tanks.
First note that they are not destroying the tank. They are Disabling the tank, there is a difference. Even that wonderfull pic that Undee posted is worthless.
All you can hope to do with an RPG is take out the treads or knock out the power pack and cause a fuel fire. Abrams repeatedly took hits from T-72 TANKS in the first gulf war. If you think an RPG has the same penetrating power as a HEAT round fired from a tank then youre on CRACK. There was a situation in the first war were the US attempted to destroy an immobolized Abram with other tanks. They shot it with 3 rounds and none of them penetrated the crew compartment of the tank.
No, tanks are not invincible. But do you really want to mess with a 68 Ton vehicle that has a 120MM cannon and over 10,000 rounds of ammo??
I guess undie and some others have been listening to PM and his stories of taking out a tank with an AK-47.
Lets also remember that tanks are not designed for Urban Combat.
2 ways to kill a tank (not immobilize, kill): Another Tank or an Aircraft/Helicopter

Here is a quote for you:
"During the Gulf War only 18 Abrams tanks were taken out of service due to battle damage: nine were permanent losses, and another nine suffered repairable damage, mostly from mines. Not a single Abrams crewman was lost in the conflict."


Here are some armor proction estimates. As you can see an RPG is not going to penetrate the turret with its equivalent thickness of 130CM-160CM (4.26ft-5.25ft) of steel.

M1A1 Abrams MBT - Estimated Armor Protection Levels (2002)
M1A1HC, M1A1HA, M1A1D Against Kinetic Energy
(in mm of RHAe) Against Chemical Energy
(in mm of RHAe)
Kinetic Turret 800 - 900 Chemical 1,320 - 1,620
Glacis 560 - 590 510 - 1,050
Lower Front Hull 580 - 650 800 - 970
RHAe = Rolled Homogeneous Armor Equivalent; an equivalent RHA thickness of a given armor type against a given armor piercing ammunition or missile (i.e. Kinetic Energy penetrators, like APFSDS DU long-rod penetrators or Chemical Energy projectiles, like HEAT ammunition and ATGM's). Modern composite (Chobham) armor may be several times more efficient against Chemical Energy than RHA of the same thickness.

 

I hope that's all bluster, and you don't go into battle feeling so invincible. The Abrams may be the world's greatest tank, and would excel in open tank-on-tank battles. But in the urban environment, any RPGer with 15 minutes of training knows how to immobilize you from the side or rear. Then they can do various nasty things like burn you out with gasoline, or get to your T-handle and turn you into infantry. This is a similar situation to the vulnerability that was revealed centuries ago, when it was discovered that the most heavily armored, state-of-the-art mounted knight could easily be taken out by several unarmored adversaries with daggers. Knights still had purpose on the open battlefield, but lost their edge in towns and forests.

You are indisputably fearsome and intimidating in your tank, but you're also an important symbol, the highest-value target on the street. So when you inevitably get deployed, don't be so cocky, OK? Unless every building around you is cleared, you can become a 70-ton immobilized center of attention at any time.

You'll like this suggestion even less, but it's sincere: To best defend our country and your honor, don't even go. This war is all wrong.

 

In our arabic culture we have a proverb which goes:

'' It is not what weapon you have, it is rather what just cause you are fighting for ''

Who will stop someone who is defending his land and adores death more than The American invaders who love life ??

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well pm you adore death then that's what you'll get I guess

 

I dont adore death for the sake of death, I adore dying a martyer for my land and my faith.

You are typical ignorant American, just empty threats !!

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