there are few things in the tolkien world that are without explanation...but one thing eludes me. y in the heck does gandalf get sent back to finish his task. was it devine intervention or what. and if it was y did he sail to the undying lands at the end of the return of the king. ive been through all the books and appendices trying to figure this out.........anyone got a clue here?
i dunno what task your talking about, but he probably went to the undying lands for 2 reasons, no 1, its basically paradise, no 2 middle earth cudnt be our planet unless he did
If i remember correctly, he didnt die properly, and was revived by a wind out of the west, or some sort of influence therefrom. We're talking magic as the fundament of the world here, its not a matter of someone sending him a mental text message or a shot of ambrosia. AS for why, isnt it obvious? without him silencing wormtongue and reviving the king of the rohirrim, they likely wouldnt have gone to Gondors aid, and would have been crushed later, and the lord of the Nazgul wouldnt have been killed, and ultimately, although the ring bearers quest might have suceeded, it wouldnt have made any difference, since much of gondor would have been laid waste, and everyone killed. So it would have turned the book into a depressing, mad, and unpleasant book. Then as for sailing back to the undying lands, that was where he came from in the first place, he was at home there, he had to leave to let the time of men proceed, and of course, he was tired and worn out, thus needed a rest. Like Bilbo and Frodo.
Gandalf's other name was Olórin, he was one of the Maiar, which are the lesser of the Ainur. These are the beings first created by Ilúvatar before the creation of the world. They in essence cannot die. They are able to leave this world, but only to return to Ilúvatar. Melkor/Morgoth, the first dark lord was also of this race and was destroyed, only to be replaced by his greatest follower, Sauron. The mythology behind it all is much deeper than one would think at first. -AntonK
I thought morgoth was one of the high ainur, not the maiar, and he was of virtually equivalent power to the most powerful other god. I have lost my copy of the Silmarillion, so cannot give exact references.
What guthrie said was essentially right...to put it in plain english though... the world of middle earth was created by Ea, the "one god" sorta thing, he also created a whole heap of lesser gods, of which there where greater and lesser varieties ( the Valar being the greater, the Maia being the lesser ) Morgoth, the original 'enemy" was one of the Valar, Sauron was his cheif Maia servant The Istari ( wizards...gandalf, saruman etc ) where Maia in the service of the good Valar, sent to middle earth during the 3rd age to help bring about Saurons fall. Being gods, even lesser ones, they couldn't litteraly die, just have their bodies trashed, and the Valar (being greater gods) have the ability ( to some extent ) to give em back their physical form. Gandalf left at the end because when Sauron was otherthrown, the 3rd age ended, as did their purpose for being in middle earth, and he had to return to the hidden lands where the Valar ( and most of the elves ) live, as the forth age was decreed be Ea to be the age of man, and as such all the elves, gods ( greater and lesser ), etc, had to piss off and leave em be. Hope that clarifies it for ya, if you really want to understand read the silmarillion, but i should warn ya the first part ( and the one most essential to understanding all this ) can be pretty hard going, as its pretty much written as a religious 'story of creation' kinda thing in the way you'd expect to find in a real religious text....the stories of the first age that come after that are good though, better than LOTR imo Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Thanks rebelwithoutacow, and random thought I have is if the 4th age is the age of man, whats the 5th age about? Or is the world wound up at the end of the age of man? Who knows? Who cares? Just a thought. (and no im not on any drugs just now.)
Tolkien never really says if or when the 4th age ends, all he says is that eventually there will be a final conflict when all the dead come back from the halls of Mandos to participate in the battle....this is one of the bits he blatantly stole from norse mythology. edit: OMG!!! Sadam is gonna escape, dig up his weapons, and bring about the final conflict! I am SO gonna chat me up a valkyrie Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Silimarillion, pg 124.. "What may befall their spirits after death the Elves know not. Some say that they to go to the halls of Mandos; but their place of waiting there is not that of the Elves, and Mandos under Illuvatar alone save Manwe knows..' Not a definite answer but the implication is there, closest thing to telling us what happens to the souls of men I can recall in his works. As for the last battle, cant find the reference right now cause the damn book doesnt have the halls of mandos in the index much. I know its mentioned a few times in relation to dead elves ( i think maybe in LOTR gandalf might mention it in relation to Feanor)...and how they wait in the halls of mandos until the end of days and the last battle....soz i cant find it but i aint slept in 24 hours lol
In the Book of Lost Tales Turin Turambar is said to be fated to come back to life for the last battle; this concept seems to have been more or less abandoned later, as it was written before the whole idea of hobbits and rings entered the mythology.
Tolkien's early, rejected concept of the afterlife for Men was a land called Habbanan, just east of the Mountains of Valinor and south of Eldamar (see "The Book of Lost Tales," Part1). This shadowy region was later renamed Avathar, and was the home only of Ungoliant the spider. As the emmisaries of Manwe told the Numenorean king Tar-Atanamir in "Akallabeth": 'The mind of Illuvatar concerning you is not known to the Valar... Your home is not here, nor anywhere within the circles of the World.' The concept of a Last Battle at the end of the World (Armageddon? Ragnarok?) was retained in Tolkien's post-LOTR mythology, as published in "Unfinished Tales." It is known as Dagor Dagorath, and will involve the return of Melkor. Similarly, King Ar-Pharazon (who led the abortive Numenorean invasion of Valinor in "Akallabeth"), and the other mortal warriors who set foot in the Undying Lands, were buried under falling hills. 'There, it is said, they lie imprisoned in the Caves of the Forgotten, until the Last Battle and the Day of Doom.'
