Water memory

Is anybody (someone, who belive in this stuff) out there able to explain what's going on at this "phenomena"? To my opinion, the ability of water to store the information is not in accordance with 2nd law of thermodinamics.

 

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Please, don't get them started again! You have no idea how annoying it was about a year ago when the homeopaths tried to take over sciforums.

 

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If water could do what homeopaths claim, with the memory and infinite dilution thing, common tap water should have been exposed to every remedy, and infinitely diluted, and therefore cure all ills. It doesn't, proving it's all bogus.

 

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If I remember rightly, water is supposed to acquire a 'memory' of the energy fields it passes through, but I think the memory is supposed to change with each different energy field, therefore, older memories are not permanent or stored.

Tap water, because of its chlorine and fluoride content and because it sits around a lot in storage, is supposed to be 'dead', so you couldn't expect it to have healing powers, even if fresh spring water actually did. In Homeopathy, it's the added ingredients that are supposed to possess the healing powers not the water itself.

 

Bah.
They say the water only remembers what they put in?
but everything else in their so-called solution is present in much greater quantities- why doesn't it remember that?
we are talking about a drop of active substance in a swimming pool the size of a planet-
there are no molecules of active substance at all, but billions of molecules of other impurities will be present.
complete nonsense from end to end.

 

You have to remember that homeopathy was invented a long time ago, back before people really knew much about biology or chemistry. As such, its doctrines don't really conform with modern scientific knowledge.

 

THERE IS NOT VARIFIED EVIDENCE OF WATER MEMORY!!!

ya ya some scientist claimed to have found evidence but no one has yet been able to emulate his data. Same thing goes for cold fusion and molecular electronics.

 

This beer tastes like somebody pissed it in the 14th century, yech!

Hey! (cough) what are these black lesions on my skin?

 

I dont know hypewaders but could i have a beer?

 

Yes.. the theory of water memory seems really unlikely. It makes no sense. But then, how can we explain how homeopathics work? They seem too. Does anyone have more information on this?

 

placebo effect

 

Placebo effect may be one answer. I was searching around and found:
http://www.askahomeopath.net/ScientificProofthatHomeopathicsWORK.htm
They are trying to suggest that molecules, non-polar in a polar solvent, will aggregate together. (or in the case of homeopathics, as they claim, polar molecules in a non-polar/organic solvent)
But I don't get how these aggregates get larger as they dilute the solutions more?

 

Briefly, homeopathic remedies are shaken or "succinated" as they are diluted, which is their explanation as to why ordinary tap water, discarded homeopathic solutions etc. do not mix with the ocean and cause a bad effect etc. They wrongly believe that as they dilute and shake, the solutions begin to effect the structure of the water and impart healing qualities to the solution. A good source of info is either www.quackwatch.com under Homeowatch, or you can actually read "The Organon of Medicine" or "Materia Medica" online I believe. In the introduction, Samuel Hahnemann, the guy who marketed the idea (but who did not invent it as Homeopaths claim,) to paraphrase: we can never know how the body works or the cause of disease, so just treat the symptoms. Since that time (around 1790,) we have sequenced the human genome, cured many diseases such as smallpox, and all without homeopathy involved at all. Homeopaths refuse to discuss the damning data, especially the human clinical trials in "Homeopathy and its Kindred Delusions" by Oliver Wendall Holmes, 1842, or the other trials, including Jacques Beneviste, Ph.D. recently, when he was fired from the Pasteur Institute for lying. And we have not even begun to discuss the evidence, overwhelmingly supporting modern public health measures, in the millions of documents (pubmed to start.) Homeopaths will attempt to limit debate to a few obscure, uncontrolled or badly designed studies, which is what desperate believers do best.

 

Let's not forget, however, that water is a compund of unique properties. Very few molecules are such a versatile solvent, or expand when they freeze, or can store gases in ice clathrates. There probably ARE chemical and physical effects associated with water which have yet to be described - certainly under extreme conditions, such as supersaturation or a pressurised liquid phase at enormous temperatures.

 

Someone once told me that Helen shed 7 tears in the ocean because of the Trojan wars; when I heard that, I sstarted crying in my beer

 

How is this related to homeopathy? If you are claiming we do not know everything about water, therefore there may be something to homeopathy, then one: there are no measurable effects from homeopathy beyond placebo, and two, this is an appeal to ignorance.

 

My professor once told us that 7 molecules of Helens tears are in all the waters of the world. Therefore after drinking from my beer I was impelled to shed some tears. Ergo a scholarly, humorous, historical synopsis of homeopothy--lighten up

 

I was only suggesting that people keep an open mind! That is, after all, the basis of most scientific inquiry.

Does the definition of "placebo" include possible psychosomatic benefits from a strong belief in the power of homeopathy?

 

Yes. Then the debate comes down to whether lying to patients is acceptable, and under what predefined terms. I think the public would be outraged at this. Also, you might as well give up on shaking/preparing homeopathics and just repackage saline for injection, or simple distilled water (which is what I suspect many manufactureres are doing now anyway.) The other issue is that a belief in homeopathy is actually dangerous because many people go untreated for serious, avoidable problems. It ends up costing the public tremendous amounts of money due to critical intervention as opposed to preventitive medicine. As for me, I am more than willing to be proven wrong, however after over 200 years, not one scientific study has shown Homeopathy has any effects, and in fact many well documented, well designed studies show it is totally worthless. So what should I believe? Also, as homeopathy is practicing without any positive data, there should be uniform rules for public health, so all possible therapies should also be totally unregulated. But no, the homeopaths bribe politicians, and still treat people to no avail. I call no fair. The amount of data surrounding homeopathy is equivalent for laetrile, a phony cancer treatment that led to the death of Steve McQueen. Here we are now, laetrile is banned but not homeopathy. What we are really discussing is politics and not science. Homeopathy is totally worthless.