Today the skinheads stab a muslim, tomorrow a jew, you really don't want to have an atmosphere for these dogs to thrive, they will come back to bite you.
they're not my brothers they are extremists who hate anyone who's not pure white what they did was wrong this result was in the mind of the chechen "militants" when they blew up that subway interesting how you concentrate more on that than on the bombing
I never said bombing was a right thing? OR DID I? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
u're right. I know... but what you call "instinctual" is not a simple instinct. Instinct by its definition is simple, it require little if any rational thought. Eventually it actually becomes behavior, like a crack head. I am human, I assume you are, thus we both have instincts, but I hardly act on them. I always try to think of the consequences of my actions, and whether or not they are good or bad. an instinctual reaction would have to be immidiate. It would have be to something that is not done with rational thought regardless of time. not "the next day" immidiate. but "the next 2-3 seconds" immidiate The "threat" that Iraq presented the US was instinctual, and Bush kept that up for quite a while. While rational characters were saying, well we aren't even sure about Iraq's WMD. Bush's instincts told him something that wasn't true. you calling it "instinctual reaction" is basically saying that you think they didn't give it enough thought. subjective, no? Potty, you're use of subjective is chronically incorrect, using it doesn't make you look smart. Jezze you never even used it, unless I explain it to you. Instinct by definition is not rational, it's animalistic, it is usually done in defense, and it is the blatant disregard of authority and consequence. at any rate, if people don't react to circumstance then they have no mental process going at all. It's at the sub-conscious level potty. it is the equivalent of terrorist organizations not giving up. Or nation states not giving up, this comparison is illogical at best. You see the US is not a police officer, and the US as you have said "is not the law", the only authority in the world that could possibly represent the "law" is the UN. Thus the "terrorists" which is a subjective perspective, are doing the same things states are doing.
For all my friends who think that Chechans are horrible and commit crimes against ruskies all the time. How about you all start from the following links. http://www.hrvc.net/ http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/russia/chechnya/ A very detailed report. http://www.phrusa.org/research/chechnya/chech_rep.html http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/6024-10.cfm http://www.amnesty.org/russia/chechnya.html Above was just a little glimpse. But for some reason the world has forgotten about them, maybe because they are muslims? or because they are not that important or maybe human rights doesn't apply on them and they are only for some chosen ones?
Votorx: "Islam" has been a problem since Muhammed. And the reasons behind the alliance are both financial and territorial. Zionists are always pointing at something. We didn't feel shit- don't forget Americans get over things as soon as they're over. They'll bitch and moan but out of sight, out of mind. I found it thrilling. You? Eluminate: Isn't this what always happens when large scale military campains are unleashed on civilians? I don't care either way, but all this is the perfect formula for seperatism and anarchy. Russia looks just as silly as Israel. For every one of those Russian killed in Moscow, for every one of those three buildings that blew up there are hundreds more of the little people and little buildings getting blown to bits by the mass of government. All victims have to do is get big so they could in turn make victims.
And yesterday the muslims drove a car into a crowded market, filled with jews (Maybe Americans tomarrow), but you don't want to have an atmosphere for these dogs to thrive.
last time I check, he was a 80 yesar old white christian male in california. poor chap! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
bushes (DAD) not his instincs told him to go to iraq. and he perfectly knew that he was going there for oil not WMD
Ehh... Uhh... Err... I'll deal with the trash about Islam first. Vortexx, there is something you need to understand. The Qur'aan doesn't talk about Shari'a. That was made up by crazy fanatics who said it was what God wanted, but in all reality it says nothing about stoning women to death because they were raped in the Qur'aan. As far as I'm aware (I'm not a Muslim), Islam is 100% capable with a Western lifestyle, minus alcohol, pork, gambling, and prostitution. Qur'aanic Law is actually quite different from Shari'a, and actually gives many previously-unheardof rights to women such as inheritance of a spouse's posessions, being able to divorce her husband whenever she wants, protection by male family members from the clutches of perverts. Unfortunately, many people haven't followed the rules completely, so although it may appear from the outside that they follow the rules, they may in reality have a wife that has tried to divorce them, but they don't allow her, they may beat her, but the same is true in Western society. Also, contrary to popular belief, Islam requires that males provide females with as good an education as finances permit. Although in many interpretations of Islam women aren't allowed to drive, they do have their own cars with chauffers(sp?) who will drive them anywhere they want. Women only have to wear Hijab in public or in the presence of strange men; if they are in the company of only their family they needn't wear the Hijab; if they are in the presence of only females (whether or not they are of the same family) they needn't wear the Hijab. Now, on to some of the outrageous things people are saying about Chechnya... How is Chechnya a part of Russia any more than Mongolia is part of Russia? Chechens are different physically, culturally, religiously, and linguistically. They want out of the Federation, why can't they leave? You say most Chechen's don't want independence. BACK UP THAT CLAIM WITH STATISTICS! Many Chechens who used to be indifferent now want independence because of the horrible things Russian soldiers have done to their families and friends. Also, the atrocities-per-capita are obviously much higher in Chechnya. Just about everybody either has a family member who "disappeared" (and was maybe found later in a mass-grave), or knows somebody who does. In Russia, this couldn't be farther from the truth. Do you have any family members who died at the hands of Chechens? I'll bet not. If they did, were they in the military? If so, they probably had it coming (the same thing for Chechen terrorists who die at the hands of Russians). Do you know anybody who has family members who died or went missing at the hands of Chechens? By this I mean a friend, not somebody you just saw on the street one day or somebody who was in your 1st grade class that probably doesn't remember you. Everybody has the right to self-determination, whether or not the mother nation lets them excersize that right. If Catalans and Basques want out of Spain/France, they have the right to it. If Tibetans/Uyghurs/Inner Mongolians/Yis/Yaos/Manchus want out of China, they have the right to it. If any given Indian nation wants out of the US/Canada/Mexico, they have the right to it. If Chechnya wants out of Russia, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO IT. Let Chechens decide the fate of Chechnya in a referrendum. You have no right to decide it for them. Ia! CTHULHU FTAGHN!!! And the Great Ctulhu loathes imperialist jerks more than anybody else! So you can expect an even slower and more painful death by His tentacles than I can. :m:
Several things. One chechnya has no right to leave the Russian Federation for one its a province roughly half of which aren't chechens. Total chechen population in Russia is around 1 million. And it was never a republic nor was it ever independant. In order to have the right you have had to been a republic or fight and win a war of independance and be recognized as a separate entity. Russia will not let it go and noone will press Russia over the issue because of the 3000 + nuclear warheads that Russia has. Also if we assume that Russia will not give them independance nor will it gain recognition and open support by a foreign country it must be fixed in favor of Russia to reduce the suffering. Crushing any rebels with extreme prejudice and eradicating any resistance to make clear that no separation could be ever contemplated again. In the long run this might be more humane then letting it drag out and argue for one side or the other. Thats why I argue for Russia and condemn the terrorists cause they are in fact terrorists. P.S. After ww2 there were about 500k chechens left. before there were about 2.5 million the reason was the same as now they rebelled during WW2 and stalin solved it in two weeks. Entire populous was sent to artic circle to build housing and mine natural resources. But it did fix the rebelion. Not to say stalin was good I m just saying the problem was solved.
hmm well I agree with everything up to stalin, thats a shity way to solve things you cant treat people that way. but for anyone who hates nazis the reason stallin moved them was because chechens were supporting the germans. and IT WAS THE F_ING RESPONSIBILITY OF THE DICK WAD THAT ANOUNCED HIMSELF THE PRESIDENT OF CHECHNIYA FOR SOME F_ING REASON TO RUN A REFERENDUM ASK HIM WHY HE DIDNT DO IT!!!??? BECAUSE HE thought THAT HE WOULDNT WIN< USE YOUR COMMON SENCE AND STOP BLETHERING S£IT> Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! read what I posted and stop repeating what undicided said!. he atleast made a point. the civilians who die in chechneya are killed by their own rebels as by russian soliders,
Several things. One chechnya has no right to leave the Russian Federation for one its a province roughly half of which aren't chechens. Did East Timor have the "right" to leave Indonesia? Did the US have the "right" to leave the United Kingdom of Great Britain? Why the hell does it matter whether or not they have "the right"? Everybody has the right to seceed from whomever rules over them, whether they are allowed to excersize it or not. Total chechen population in Russia is around 1 million. So what? And it was never a republic nor was it ever independant. It was independent for a spell in the 1990s, as well as in the 1800s (that's when Russia annexed it). Prior to then, it was either independent or part of the Ottoman or Persian empires. In order to have the right you have had to been a republic or fight and win a war of independance and be recognized as a separate entity. They did fight and win a war of independence. Either way, why does Russia care so fucking much? You say it's about territorial integrity, if they let Chechnya go, then Ingushetia and Bashkorstan and Dagistan and Tatarstan will all want to leave too. So, what's wrong with letting them leave as well? Your state of mind is an imperialist one. Why does it matter whether or not Russia has certain territories? What difference does it make whether they're part of Russia, or whether they are independent? Russia will not let it go and noone will press Russia over the issue because of the 3000 + nuclear warheads that Russia has. Prior to 11-9, the US was pressuring Russia, and the international community as well as the Chechnyans are still pressuring Russia to give Chechnya full independence. Also if we assume that Russia will not give them independance nor will it gain recognition and open support by a foreign country it must be fixed in favor of Russia to reduce the suffering. But why should we assume that? And even if we do, why should it be fixed in favor of Russia? After all, most of the atrocities on either side of the conflict are caused by Russian soldiers to Chechnyan civilians. If Russia withdraws troops from Chechnya, there will be no more atrocities on the Chechnyan side, and the atrocities on the Russian side will sharply decrease. However, if Russia continues what it's currently doing, suffering will continue on both sides until a complete ethnic cleansing of Chechnya has taken place. Are you a nazi? Crushing any rebels with extreme prejudice and eradicating any resistance to make clear that no separation could be ever contemplated again. What about it? That wasn't a sentence, you know. I understood it, but I was waiting for the predicate, and I still am. In the long run this might be more humane then letting it drag out and argue for one side or the other. Thats why I argue for Russia and condemn the terrorists cause they are in fact terrorists. No, the reason you argue for Russia is because you are a Russian (afaict). What's the difference between the Chechnyan terrorists and the Russian soldiers? The Russian soldiers are paid for by the Russian government, an independent nation recognized by the UN. There is no difference in their tactics, except that Russia's tactics include going from house to house in small villages and abducting women and children and then raping them, and abducting men and murdering them and burying them in mass graves. Sure, Chechnyan rebels may take the heads of Russians and mail them to their families. But which Russians is it? Russian civilians? Or Russian soldiers? Russian soldiers are taking the risk by being Russian soldiers and being in Chechnya. Chechnyan rebels may have blown up a bus and a bar, but they still have not killed nearly as many Russians as the Russians have killed Chechnyans. Every Chechnyan either has a family member who "disappeared", or has a good friend who does. Most Russians don't know anybody who has a close family member who "disappeared". P.S. After ww2 there were about 500k chechens left. before there were about 2.5 million the reason was the same as now they rebelled during WW2 and stalin solved it in two weeks. Entire populous was sent to artic circle to build housing and mine natural resources. But it did fix the rebelion. Not to say stalin was good I m just saying the problem was solved. The problem would've been solved in a much more humane way if Chechnya were granted independence, no? And Chechnya would be independent to this day, and there would be no issues of that sort. :m:
Again, where are the statistics? You say he wouldn'tve won. But do you have any numbers to back that up? If so, "stop blethering (sic) s£it (sic)" until you can come up with the numbers. Same goes for the part about more Chechnyans dying at the hands of rebels than at the hands of Russian soldiers. Are you a Russian? :m:
Actually munky stalin did the right thing in this case. They rose up and joined with the nazis to kill off the Russians in 1943 when Russian went on counteroffensive and recaptured the territory what would you do? And I was wrong the statistics are 800,000 got deported about 260,000 died. Yes Aslan Mashadov proclaimed himself president with no populous poll whats so ever. What started the 2nd chechen war was him invading daghestan after that Putin declared war which was more or less started by the chechens themselves. Yeltsin made peace with chechens in the first war. What would you do if armed thugs invaded your country? Before chechnya became part of Russian Empire it was part of the persian empire. It was never an independant state was always attached to something greater. Giving it to Iran is a no-no also all the drug trafficing and illigal activity in the region should be stomped out not rewarded by giving independance. The populous is just caught in the middle of warlords trying to gain complete control. So dont act high and mighty like its the people who are fighting for their freedom dying valiantly. Its warlord ambitions that are forcing this whole thing to take place.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/europe/chechnya/timeline.html pbs is a bit western scewed but its very reputable http://www.cdi.org/issues/Europe/timeline.htm here you go I looked for the most reputable and non-partial sources I could find. Most of the liberal western sources fail to mention the invasion into daghestan triggering the 2nd war and some other things which makes it seem like Russia just went in there for no apparent reason. http://www.cdi.org/document/search/displaydoc.cfm?DocumentID=318&StartRow=1&ListRows=10 I found this very very very interesting.
why did Russia go in Chechnya? answer oil why did America go in Irak? answer oil when some russians get killed, like the fifty something thats news, but what about the Chechnians? Common, they aint going to show dead chechnians on tv, thats boring, like it or not news= ching ching, money $$$ £££, it has to sell whats happening in russia? Chechnians dont got soldiers to fight a normal war, so what should they do? Sometimes i think deeply, well i have 3 little kids, and one day there comes some army, boms here, boms there, BOOM parents dead, BOOM Sisters dead, BOOM Wife and kids dead, time passes and there are no armies to fight for u, u going to forget about all? u going to continue with your life?? Nope , life as u know died with your relatives and kids, so u know u cant go face to face with the super armies, what u do? kamikaze boms in busses, crowded places, everywhere u can. They call this TERORISM, u can call it what u like but its war. Same in Russia, Same in Israel, Same in America( Saddam was a nice dude in the eyes af ammerica untill they needed some more ching ching $$$$$$, and if u think the reason Saddams a bad boy because Irak invaded Kuwait then u are wrong, America knew the plans some times before it happened) A life is nothing, money rules, its power. S Some millions gone die because some money? No problem as long the cash flows, this is the reallity, we dont like it but its true
Actually there is more then just oil in chechnya... its a drug smuggling/trafficing region also people being used like in columbia stolen for ransom also territorial cohession and deterance of any other group to start the same spiral. Lots of good reasons here not just oil. Oil is small part of it. Kazakhstan has huge oil reserves but it was allowed to separate with no ill will. The reality is thus in 20 years chechens wont exist in ethnical sense there is about 470-370k left and I feel that they will be reduced until any and all threat to the Russian state is anihilated to surety.
