Here's a site that will keep you very warm without the use of any woodland creatures or other varmits. http://www.sub-zeroboots.com/pages/alljacketstrousers .htm
Merely an analogy dude. A cancer slowly kills its host the more it prospers, not a huge mental leap to make the connection. Exactly what you said, as long as we do NOT exploit it. Take a look around chief, what the fuck do you think is going on in this world if it isn't exploitation? I dont see gorillas chopping down forests to put up banana plantations. They only destroy at a sustainable level. We exploit. Hell no, I don't think we're aliens. This is our home. As we're supposedly the most intelligent species on the planet I consider it our duty to act as caretakers.
Once the animals are whiped out by viruses and deprivement of their habitat ect,... THEN those virusses WILL turn on humans, even more then they do already,... Or would you say that there wouldn't be any animals left to get infected? Animals don't strive for hate nor revenge,...but I think one way or another that they'll get their retribution,....somehow.
There is nothing foreign about a cancer. A cancer is formed of the same material and DNA as the host and is fed and nurtured by the host. The reason a cancer is destructive is that it uses resources of the host in an unsustainable manner. It grows without bounds, without the realization that overuse of the hosts resources will kill both the host and the cancer. That is why humans are analogous to cancer. We use the resources of the world in an unsustainable manner. Our population and our consumption of resources is following an exponential growth curve, yet the resources of the planet are finite. At some point, likely in our lifetimes, the two will intersect as our needs exceed the capacity of the planet.
WHY MEAT/DAIRY SHOULD BE ILLEGAL 1) Meat and milk products are bad for humans in every way. Unhealthy humans make for an unhealthy society. Unhealthy humans are a strain on society, and therefore affect healthy humans and hinder prosperity. 2) Of course most people think the opposite because of the meat/dairy conspiracy. These very powerful industries manipulate virtually all segments of our society including television ads, schools, medical research, and so on. Therefore, they have pretty much the entire American population believing that meat and milk are actually good for you. 3) As noted here: http://www.themeatrix.com/, factory farms, not story book farms, are used to create milk/dairy products. They continue pumping animals out, mutilating them, and storing them in small areas where they can barely move. In order to keep pumping these animals out, they need to use up acres upon acres of land to make food for them, thousands of gallons of water, loads of energy, and heaps of natural earth resources. All of which could be used to grow enough natural vegan products to feed the world many times over. The toll the earth environment takes to produce vegan products is extremely insignificant compared to the toll it takes to create meat/dairy products. In other words, humanity pays huge amounts in order to cover the cost of creating meat/dairy. Whereas a vegan economy would be practically free of charge. 4) The enormous amounts of excrement and diseases caused by growing mutilated animals adds to the environmental toll. 5) Why is it so difficult for a person to become a vegan? Because the meat and dairy industries use so much land to feed their animals. Land that could easily be used to grow vegan products. Therefore, driving prices for vegan products up. I’d like to eat healthy, and live a healthy natural vegan life, but it is very difficult to afford to. Why? Because meat/dairy eaters want the freedom to eat whatever they want, and therefore support these meat/dairy industries which A) Screw up the environment making life more difficult for everybody. B) Make their products and their food pyramid mandatory in every school and public agency that serves food. C) Make it virtually impossible for people that want to eat real food afford to do so. D) Would rather spend years of time and research making their garbage taste better. Time and research which could have been used to come up with lots of tasty recipes for natural food products. It is very important for humans to have the choice to do whatever they want, and eat whatever they want. But we have to understand that being the most intelligent species on the planet, it is our responsibility to take care of it. 2 questions: * Is our selfish freedom to eat whatever we want really worth the cost our mother earth is paying for it? ** Do we really think we are enjoying our lives by indulging in temporary gratifications that ultimately cause us major sicknesses as opposed to enjoying natural foods that lead to real health, and a balanced state of mind?
Wow cool. What a load of unfounded opinion. :sniff sniff: In "every way", huh? Oh right. Would that be the giant meat/dairy industry conspiracy that's been around for the last 5000 years or so? People have been eating cattle and dairy since before the advent of 'civilization'. But, of course, the only reason we eat it now is because of the advertising; right? The fact that most people retain the ability to produce lactase into adulthood demonstrates that we have been consuming dairy products long enough for it to affect our evolution. The fact that we cannot derive vitamin B12 from a vegan diet and that our bodies cannot produce it proves the fact that we are omnivores; we need to eat some animal products. You mean the "insignificant" environmental impact caused by razing all the natural flora and fauna from acres upon acres of land and replacing them with a single crop species which can only be maintained by the artificial supplementation of nutrients, causes soil erosion, and causes the overpopulation of pest species? Answer a question for me; what activity is primarily responsible for global deforestation? Hint: It's not the lumber industry. Primarily because humans are omnivores, not herbivores. Granted, we should be eating more insects and fish than cattle, but we are definitively omnivores. Sorry, but eating meat is natural for humans. If one chooses not to eat any animal products one must be extremely diligent in selecting a variety of somewhat rare foodstuffs and also take some dietary supplements. While the over-consumption of meat and dairy products has been linked to high-cholesterol and heart disease and there is some amount of evidence that suggests a diet that is high in protein might contribute to other health problems (liver, kidney), a properly balanced diet that includes meat and dairy is not harmful to one's health. On the other hand, a vegan diet can often be linked to anemia, bleeding gums, hair loss, etc., due to malnutrition and even sometimes such things as vitamin A toxicity due to over-consumption of vegetables. Sorry cool skill, but a truly healthy and natural human diet requires the consumption of animal products. We should generally eat far less meat than we do and we should have more concern about the quality of everything that we eat. But the fact remains, we are omnivorous and most of your arguments are way overstated. ~Raithere
What!? Last time I checked, vegetables were dirt cheap compared to meat. There's a vegan restaurant in town, and for about $5 CAN (that's like $3 US), they give you about 2 pounds of cooked vegetables. And it's a pretty good restaurant, from what I've heard. Indeed, the affordability of veganism is supposedly one of the main selling points of the lifestyle.
Obviously: vaganism and modernday economic systems don't fit well together. Understandably they have to charge more than that crap they're selling in the supermarkets; since it's more intensive work to provide you with BIO-products then it is with mass-production of chicken wings (for example). In my town, we have a bio-garden ourselves,...we plant our own food and we learn a great deal about nature. It's intresting to see however, that people will STILL eat cat's and dogs and chickens and cows, even when the're sure that they are infested with the plague or bronchitis or even wors: sars hehehe. I think we see two kinds of people here: on the one side: -people who care about themselves and clearly take intrest in their surounding environment with consiousness and understanding, -the second group of people, being neglecting, selfisch and NOT-caring. Obviously not taking intrest in their environment. -And maby some left over people, who don't know what's between heaven and earth and don't know shit from pie to distinguish. Now, who's fucking up earth you think?
I hope you tads do realize that without predators, such as humans and other creatures, the population growth of the animals you are defending will also become unsustainable. Men have been hunters since the beginning, and this practice helps to maintain a natural balance. Yes I will agree that sometimes things can get out of hand and species can be over hunted, which is why we need to establish a healthy medium. If we were to simply release all animals from captivity and allow their growth to go unchecked, I would imagine they would graze like crazy, moving from place to place and consuming the resources until they are depleted. We keep them in check, much like war, famine, and disease keep us in check. Animals are not people, they do not think like people, they are not intelligent, and they do not give a SHIT about your high moral standards. Man did not become the dominant species on earth by eating their fucking vegetables ok? We became the dominant species because we hunted, killed, ate, skinned and wore animals. If it comes down to cute little bambi's mother or my survival you can bet your ass I'm going to have a feast that night. Which reminds me I need to get my Hunting License and Tags for next year. Anyone here like elk?
“What a load of unfounded opinion” It’s not unfounded. There’s tons of scientific proof that water based foods promote health, and that animal based foods are poison. “People have been eating cattle and dairy since before the advent of 'civilization'.” Irrelevant. That is as relevant to the issue as me telling you to look for any other primates that are omnivores. The fact that people been doing something since the advent of civilization does not mean that they are not being manipulated now. “But, of course, the only reason we eat it now is because of the advertising; right?” Yes. If the manipulations hit people as hard with the truth as they do with their lies, I’m pretty sure they would follow along. “demonstrates that we have been consuming dairy products long enough for it to affect our evolution.” The fact that we have to evolve in order to tolerate something: A. Means that it is a poison. B. Does not mean that we are fully capable of handling it. It’s still a poison. “The fact that we cannot derive vitamin B12 from a vegan diet” Wrong. “and that our bodies cannot produce it proves the fact that we are omnivores.” It doesn’t prove anything. “You mean the "insignificant" environmental impact caused by” Yes. Insignificant. Compared to the damage we cause producing meat/dairy products, very insignificant. “If one chooses not to eat any animal products one must be extremely diligent in selecting a variety of somewhat rare foodstuffs and also take some dietary supplements.” Of course one must be very diligent unless they live in a society that is not riddled with meat/dairy products on every corner. “a properly balanced diet that includes meat and dairy is not harmful to one's health.” Any diet that includes poison may not be very harmful, but it does do damage. “On the other hand, a vegan diet can often be linked to anemia, bleeding gums, hair loss, etc., due to malnutrition and even sometimes such things as vitamin A toxicity due to over-consumption of vegetables. Sorry cool skill, but a truly healthy and natural human diet requires the consumption of animal products.” Meat products are not required. Nor are they beneficial in any way. “What!? Last time I checked, vegetables were dirt cheap compared to meat. There's a vegan restaurant in town, and for about $5 CAN (that's like $3 US), they give you about 2 pounds of cooked vegetables. And it's a pretty good restaurant, from what I've heard.” That’s brand new to me. Maybe you canideeins have it differently because down here, any vegetable products especially organic costs way more than any meat/dairy/processed stuff. Maybe I should move oot to Canada.
What really disgusts me about this whole thing is that they are showing this crap to little kids. I mean wtf
Every fucking time I must read an uninformed opinion: "man have been hunters from the beginning" If you asshole would do at least 'some' background check on that,...you would come to the conclusion that we were plant eaters for thousands of years,... After devastating disasters to our planet, we had to come down and started living by lakes, shores and sea,... Our diet became more varied along the way,.... It's not until the ICE-AGE '(you stupid fucking moron)' (don't mind this cursing: I'm having a acute surge of tourrette's syndrome) where was I: It was not until the ICE AGE that plant life got less, in fact; it nearly completely disapeared, so in effect: we began to eat more meat because we had too: from this time we can see that bloodtype 'O' has become into being: they are (surprisingly) more suited for digesting meat. So it was every time: we preyed on meat just in EMERGENCIES okay,...that doesn't mean we where, we are or ever will be: fucking friggin CARNIVORES It's an outright LIE by the meat industry. Have I woken you up yet,..Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
PETA cares bout animals. Animals drain the earth of some resources. Yeat these resources are also one that human needs. Funny to think.
is it just me or does PETA often only go for the cute animals? I dont know. Dont care too much for PETA since their Holocaust/Chicken Farm deal and their newest, Your Mommy Kills Animals because she is greedy. Do they honestly think that by inciting anger instead of using logic that they can change the world? Or do they do that because they have nothing logical to go on? Like I said, I dont know much about PETA and Ill probably hear about it from someone out there about how I am an ill informed idiot who should stay in his corner of the forum. BUt Oh well. Ill live with it.
As is typical with vegan/vegitarian moralists you vastly overstate the case, cool skill. Yes, animal products do contain toxins. Guess what, so do plants. Indeed this is true but all you've provided so far is just more manipulation. The cattle industry would have us eating steaks and drinking milk at every meal. You'd have us all grazing in the backyard. Neither extreme is particularly healthy and as is typical the truth lies somewhere in-between. Too much steak is bad for you but so are too many carrots. When it comes down to it, the USDA food pyramid is pretty accurate (go figure, it was developed by nutritionists). It recommends that people eat mostly grains and starches, then fruits and vegetables, then meat and dairy, and least of all fats and sugars. What country do you live in because it's not the same one I do. I'm bombarded with dietary advice from the "Got Milk" campaign to PETA's last bizarre propaganda stunt. The problem is figuring out what's accurate. The best thing IMO is to go back to biology and find out what our nutritional requirements actually are and what is the best way of meeting those requirements. No, species will also evolve to take advantage of new or previously unavailable resources. A. No, it does not mean that it's poison. People that do not produce lactase just have some difficulty digesting the sugars in milk. B. All humans produce lactase during infancy but since milk from other species has become an available resource most humans have evolved to continue lactase production into adulthood so as to make better use of this resource. No. I'm not. If you don't believe me listen to these vegan information sites: "The only reliable vegan sources of B12 are foods fortified with B12 (including some plant milks, some soy products and some breakfast cereals) and B12 supplements. ... Claimed sources of B12 that have been shown through direct studies of vegans to be inadequate include human gut bacteria, spirulina, dried nori, barley grass and most other seaweeds. Several studies of raw food vegans have shown that raw food offers no special protection. Reports that B12 has been measured in a food are not enough to qualify that food as a reliable B12 source. It is difficult to distinguish true B12 from analogues that can disrupt B12 metabolism. Even if true B12 is present in a food, it may be rendered ineffective if analogues are present in comparable amounts to the true B12. There is only one reliable test for a B12 source - does it consistently prevent and correct deficiency? Anyone proposing a particular food as a B12 source should be challenged to present such evidence." http://www.vegansociety.com/html/food/nutrition/b12/ "Vitamin B12 is needed for cell division and blood formation. Plant foods do not contain vitamin B12 except when they are contaminated by microorganisms. Thus, vegans need to look to other sources to get vitamin B12 in their diet." http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm "Vitamin B12 is found primarily in meat, dairy products and eggs and is absent from plant foods. Considerable research has been carried out into possible plant sources of B12. Fermented soya products, seaweeds and algae such as spirulina have all been proposed as containing significant amounts of B12. However, the present consensus is that any B12 present in plant foods is likely to be in a form unavailable to humans and so these foods should not be relied upon as safe sources." http://www.vegsoc.org/info/vegan-nutrition.html I should also mention that while plants do contain other necessary vitamins and elements several have the same problem with absorption as is mentioned in that list site quote. It is quite clear that biologically humans are not herbivores. No, it's not insignificant, the problems I mentioned are quite large. While the dairy farms are indeed problematic most beef cattle are ranch raised on natural fauna supplemented with feed corn and hay. Again, groups like PETA will pick out the worst scenarios and display them as if they were true across the board. Some parts of the ranching industry need to be revamped, others already have been, and some are pretty well handled already. Same thing goes for the farming industry except in certain areas of the world where farmers are methodically destroying the surrounding ecosystem. No, one must be diligent regardless. One needs to make sure to eat a variety of produce (including nuts, beans, seaweed, and soybean products) to cover the same nutritional requirements one receives from just eating a steak or a burger every once in a while. I don't know where the hell you live. Last I checked (yesterday) produce such as carrots, broccoli, and oranges were going for about half the price as steak. Unless, of course, you're foolish enough to buy organic produce then the cost is about the same (ever wonder why?). ~Raithere (Edit: too weird, I deleted and reposted because the word poison-ed kept coming up as asterisks; watch: ********.)
Raithere: I challenge you: You'll eat your occasionally steak, and I'll continue to be a pesco-vegetarian,...(for several years already) We'll see who get's sick. Humans don't need meat IMO! humans DO need organic plant food, humans are more herbivore than that they are carnivore I dare you to go on a carnivorious diet and it won't take long for you to die. I sincerely doubt your opinion wich you present as a fact. B12 can be made artificially: by means of simple synthetic reaction: so NO MEAT IS NEEDED. ALL vitamins present in plants can be absorbed by the human digesting system: on the contrary to what is present in meat, namely: proteïns and fibers,... In meat, there are NO vitamins that can be absorbed,...
Last I checked fish belonged to the Kingdom Animalia, which means you eat meat and are not a vegan. Vegan's eat only plant matter and consume no animal products at all. It is quite likely that the only major difference between your diet and mine is that the only meat you eat is fish while I will eat other meats as well as fish. I have had no serious illnesses (as in having to take medicine, see a doctor, or miss work) for about 12 years, which was the last time I had the flu. I'll take your bet. Then why do you eat it? Indeed. When have I ever said otherwise? Human's should eat more produce than meat but humans are neither herbivores nor carnivores. Humans are omnivores. I suggest you try checking the facts because your posts contain some serious errors. You need to read more thoroughly. I already said that vegans need to artificially supplement their diets with B12. People who eat meat get theirs naturally. Quite wrong, particularly regarding B12. If you disbelieve me go check the sites I posted earlier. You seem to like being wrong. Beef, is in fact one of the best sources for some essential nutrients: "A 3 oz. serving of beef includes less than 10% of the calories in a 2000 calorie per day diet as well as these important nutrients percentages of these adult Recommended Daily Allowances (RDA) 50% of the protein 39% of the zinc 37% of the B12 18% of the Niacin 16% of the B6 14% of the iron • The iron found in beef is heme iron, which is highly digestible and easily absorbed by the human body. • Beef is an excellent source of amino acids, including those that contain sulfur. • Beef contains numerous trace minerals such as zinc, cobalt, magnesium, and phosphorus, which are important in enzymatic and immune functions. • The nutrient density of beef is greater than that of other foods. • The cholesterol levels found in meat are unrelated to blood cholesterol levels in normal individuals. • Fat levels in beef are declining due to improved usage of genetics and more fat trimming at the retail level. http://www.premiumqualityfoods.com/consumers/beef_facts.cfm ~Raithere
I've got a site for you,... http://users.telenet.be/myprojects/gezondevoeding/voeding/vegan.html Have fun,...
Scrabble; Sorry "dude", this chief does find it a huge mental leap. Why? Because; Porf...sez; We are aware, no? Therefore a huge mental leap for this chief. If you would comment on the context of my response - the ENTIRE response - you'd see the gigantic leap you both made by assuming what it was I was trying to say. Remember folks, this thread is about PETA and animal fur not cancer... Sheeeesh!
