The American

WANDERER said:
''Also notice the one calling itself Bells that has the empty gaze of a foraging cow in pasture. See how she hides a secret need to capture my attentions through insults and innuendo about my sexuality. ''

totally agree with that.

he is the only one making sense in this threat and who is actually saying something. sorry bell, but you have no meat behind your arguements.

anyway, I am still interested in meeting ''unboring'' Americans who live in my area.

peace
:m:

 

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As you may have noticed most of these people don’t come here for a discussion or philosophy or critical thought they come here for other reasons which would take multiple posts to explain thoroughly.
Any serious discussion is soon hijacked by the Forum insects that are here only to gather attention or to participate in moronic name-calling and mud-slinging.
When and if they do participate in civil discussion it’s usually in subjects with no personal ramifications.
They despise any subjects that place a mirror in front of their face and force them to look at what they want to deny.
There’s psychology at play here. Their goal is to refocus attention on themselves, using childish methods [shouting, crying, yelling, vulgarity, profanity, insult] and not through their quality of mind and through their strength of reasoning, and through doing this they start feeling powerful.
Their subconscious reasoning goes like this:
I have nothing to say, I can’t become relevant or compete here using my mind, so I will disrupt the ones that can and by doing this feel superior to them when inferiority is what I really feel.
Would not a tick feel powerful when it makes a horse fling its large tail?
If you notice the topic of ‘control’ or of manipulation comes up often from their mouths. It’s the act of disruption or distraction that they crave because they take it as proof of importance.
All of them, of course, would not consider acting the way they do if this discussion was a face to face one; it’s the safety of distance that this medium offers that makes them feel secure enough to behave in ways that would have gotten their asses kicked otherwise.
This is their venting place where their bitterness and anger can be unleashed without repercussions. This is where they can posture and prance and nobody can call them out for it. Any challenge will be sidetracked with witticism and smartass remarks and then a quick claim of victory will follow.
In their real lives they are mostly silent and invisible, stewing pressurized resentment existing in total invisibility and irrelevance.
It is this fact that makes them vengeful and hateful towards all that posses the characteristics they want for themselves. Just like an unattractive female bad-mouths the pretty girl as a form of vengeful catharsis, they unleash their furry against anyone that makes them feel like nobody’s in the very arena they come to feel like somebody’s.
This is their turf, they think, and they mean to protect it from becoming a projection of their real life where they feel helpless and insignificant.
Isn’t this what is wrong with western civilization?
Infantile men-children and women-children with little self-esteem, many demands and expectations, many delusions and an inner emptiness hidden behind a smartass disrespectful exterior masking rage and insecurity.

The best one can do is ignore them and focus attention on the ones that he/she respects and wants to hear from.
Now if they would only do me the favour and put me on their Ignore List.
If they don’t they will be faced with future mirrors that I will be posting from time to time.
Of course no response will be given to their pleas for attention and their need for self-validation.

 

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Turn your face from everyone who disagrees with you... eventually, who will be left? Xev, I guess, but spookz has been your best friend in these threads. After all, any publicity is good publicity, eh?

 

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Too Blue

I turn my head from morons and nit-wits.
Coincidentally most idiots disagree with me. Go figure.
Did I turn my head from you, Blue?
Are you saying these individuals offer enough quality for serious debate, are you saying these people are actually saying something?
Be careful who you associate yourself with, it will color you.
spookz was a good advertisement instrument but his physchological need becomes annoying.
But the problem has been solved.
Even if only Xev is left, she is enough for me.
It's about quality Big Blue not quantity.
Have you learned nothing from me yet.
If you cannot be inspired by me or find practical applications from my insights into your life then at least offer some qualitative challenges so that I may grow as well. If you cannot do neither then why should I pay attention to you?

 

Hm. I am surprised that you still do.

 

Wanderer: Be careful who you associate yourself with, it will color you.

Humm. Yes that reminds me of something my grandmother used to say "Show me your friends and I'll tell you who you are." Many of us here can learn from what you posted above. The sciforums culture encourages mob slaying and the ad hominem, on some level we have all become a part of it ie. participant or victim. Each time we allow for a complete breakdown of civil useful discussion we miss the opportunity to learn from each other which is supposed to be the point of this site. A brawl can be an entertaining distraction but if we are not careful lack of substance can become the only content. You are correct that our online personas do protect our vulnerabilities and watching how vulnerabilities are used against a poster encourages the attempts to 'save face' through mindless tit for tat. If we posted only when we really had something to offer perhaps we would post less often, but isn't it better to be productive and substantial and better spend our time and use our abilities elsewhere when we have nothing to offer to a thread? Think if the only time we have is NOW, why waste the moment? These moments MAKE UP THE CONTENT OF OUR LIFE! Meanwhile Rome is collapsing from an internal cancer, there is so much to be done and here everyone is wasting it trying to one-up a stranger. The vituprative hostile comments do not reflect on anyone else but ourselves. As you have already noticed Wanderer "The real enemy can always be met and conquered, or won over. Real antagonism is based on love, a love which has not recognized itself." The Air-Conditioned Nightmare/Henry Miller

Those who 'dont get it' who dont want to understand the vision they present, the reflection of their discontent, are bottom feeders; scavangers happy to nibble on the carcass of any noble attempt. Yes, this is what's wrong with western civilization (civilization being the carcass and the herd its scavangers). What's worse is the feeding frenzy is enjoyed. And no Blue he is not alone.

 

do you have any preferences with regards to the color i plan to tar you with?
would you mind being feathered?

nappyhead
i demand a percentage of all sales.

what happened to us? you used to gaze out the window and wish for my arrival. now? what a fickle little bitch you turned out to be

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how the mighty have fallen. this just frikkin could possibly make my day. yet i am not content. i aim for more. satan aint got shit on me

why you ask? because i can!

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*i know you click "view post"

 

No, Lucy, of course he's not alone. Most arguments here create their own ideological schisms which people very readily identify themselves as belonging on one side of. Once that break has been made, very little progress can be made by anyone involved - but I have never seen a single argument of any length that only had one person on one side of the break. Every argument has two communities... the true antagonism that you mention in your post is dissolved almost immediately as soon as the schism comes into view, because it's a case of two crowds yelling at each other. Who can shape that? No one controls anyone here.

I find my learning here, such as it is, in the five-post threads that quickly fall out of sight. There have been a few long discussions that were relatively rewarding, but they often end up with everyone agreeing all the time, which is entirely useless.

Productivity is not really to be had here on Sciforums; how many of the people here do you mentally dismiss as "scavengers" each time you post? How many people has Wanderer openly dismissed each time he begins a thread? When you post on a thread and think, "Wow, this is really going somewhere," is it because you are learning or because people are agreeing with you? It's not really much use, because when people post to agree or commiserate they generally impart almost no information.

Where does that leave us? There's no real learning, no substance in agreement, no venue for argument and no point in rationalization. Most of the time, all there is to do is fight.

So we fight. It's like arguing, but without a subject. We defend ourselves from pointless detractions because it's better to give someone the finger back than to let them sneer and then think they got something out of it. It has value, if only a little, because at least when you fight you bend your mind a little... when everyone agrees with you, you don't get any content at all.

Besides, if a person doesn't defend themselves to the best of their ability here, where there's no danger, can you believe that they'll defend themselves when there's something they can actually lose?

 

BigBlueHead:

Yes. I mean fighting for an ideology is different from responding to constant yapping. There's - a good criticism that might be insulting too, and there is the "you're gay/ugly/mean/lonely/sexually frustrated" which gets annoying.

You say I'm the only one who agrees with Wanderer, but you're wrong. We have significant differences of opinion, and even those who attack him often admit that he is right. Raithere, you, several others have aknowledged him to be "right in part". Yet dispute remains.

And then there are others whose hostility is based on personality or that they feel smaller in his presence or that they, like they Nydan in Siberian mythology, are so dirty and cold that they can't stand the presence of cleanliness.

What are we here for? Entertainment.

Lucysnow - who I've also fought with and agreed with - hits on a valid point. We're sitting here talking as Rome collapses. What else is there?
She's right that we're scavenging. But we learn something - more about what is wrong.

And at that level, why should we fix it? When I was a girl I used to devour books about great military leaders like Arminius, Alexander the Great, Patton. Thought I'd change the world. That faded when I realized that the world really doesn't want to be changed.

But here we are, talking and hoping someone listens.

"Burning cities, all is well
I remain in my conviction
As the waste in sewer flows thru the promised land"
-Morbid Angel

 

I've not yet met a person who I didn't think was right about something. I've also never many anyone with whom I didn't disagree about something. If you start to turn away the disagreers, soon everyone will be gone except for the ones who keep quiet when you're around.

When you say entertainment that's too true. Here on sciforums we are largely invincible barbarians engaged in squabbles with no rules over no stakes. We can't change the world from here any more than we can by peeling an orange - maybe that orange peel will fall under the tire of a mass murderer's car, make them fly off the road and die and save the many more lives they would have taken. Probably not. Will anyone learn anything from this post I'm writing now? Probably not.

Your study of the Greats in war should help to point out why the world can't be changed in the way you describe - to get it to change, you have to get it away from the (very small number of) people who own it. It'll never come into your hands through this forum, no matter how beautiful your words - the Orphean dream, the poem that makes the water still. And if it did? Another hand would grip the world. Scant change for those who live on it.

What do you actually want?
What does anyone actually want?

In between chasing that thing, we post on Sciforums. There's no power here to get what you want.

 

The only power that means anything is the power in yourself and this can only be tapped through knowing yourself.
What better way to do this than by testing and challenging yourself?
The people I dismiss aren't enemies they aren't even adversaries, they’re men-children/women-children and impotent nobodies that come here to make up for psychological, mental and physical inferiorities by becoming relevant through screams and shouts.
I never turned away from anyone who actually posted a well thought out argument against my own with no vulgarity or personal insults.
If my style bothers you then too bad. My pride is a product of years of suffering.
I have struggled and pained and this is what makes me arrogant. I’ve earned my opinions I didn’t inherit them.
If I were interested in a shouting match I would want to include the possibility of a physical confrontation as an alternative.
As things stand here, little morons and twits can posture and prance because they don’t fear my physical presence.
Are you Blue Head claiming that they deserve more than my scorn and indifference?
Are you so stuck in your equalitarianism, which comforts you, that you are willing to tolerate bugs on your table?
I’m not, I close the window and let them fly about and eat shit outside.
Efficiency demands that I focus my energies towards constructive minds and avenues. Wasting my time with imbeciles is not constructive.
Besides the world needs twits and morons.
I’m searching for my own creed.
Are you one of them?
We’ll see.

 

Blue, I am not suggesting that people should not argue or disagree. It is the mindless flame wars, you know when a subject is buried because everyone wants to point out that someone is an asshole or whatever; when the group discussion is solely focused on personal attacks. I dont agree all the time with those whom I have an affinity, sometimes we clash, but I believe Wanderes point suggested a way of bypassing the mindless head banging and find our way back to discussion that is useful. Can a teacher teach or a student learn during a brawl in a classroom? Can a speaker make a point when there are hacklers in the audience? I hope you noticed that in my post I referred to WE not THEY, I thought Wanderer made some extremely valid points as to how we can all get the best of our little congregation here. Obviously no one can control how someone else posts, but we do have a choice as to how much attention we give to a attack (attack as in the personal baiting kind and not an attack on someones argument).

Xev: That faded when I realized that the world really doesn't want to be changed.

You are so right and it is precisely this that I find infuriating and sad. The only choice left for one is self-growth, awareness and changing what we can, supporting those who are also on the path towards a better life, a better way of being. As for the others, I hate to use the cliche, let sleeping dogs lie.

 

Blue: Look at this post...look how few actually engaged the topic either for or against. Look how quickly it turned into how much Wanderer loves or despises himself or about his dick size? Now the topic is lost except for the discussion about hostile discussion.

 

BigBlue:

But it's not about disagreement. Those who disagree are NOT turned away, it is those who cannot disagree intelligently.

But I think you've misunderstood. I'm not here for changing it. I'm not Arminius, I'm not Bodaeca and those days are over.

I used to be a lot like you, I believed in social justice, worker's rights, bettering the standard of living for everyone. And then I looked around, really looked around.

And I realized that people were indifferent. And those people starving in India? If they were born in prosperity, you think they'd be any less indifferent to the people starving in...wherever?

Why should I care about the Afghans suffering under the Taliban? These people cut the external genitalia off of their own daughters, why should I care about a race that idiotic and vile? Let them die faster, the world is overpopulated as is.
Why should I care about the children gunning each other down in the streets? If they had lived, they'd just kill someone else.

You can't improve the human race as a whole. You can maybe make things a little better for them, but ultimately that's a waste as well.

I want what any girl wants; a labrys, a trusty sword, a good set of armour and a horse like Baldium that devours the souls of my enemies.

Of course.

Lucysnow:

Indifference comes with pain and self-growth.
Ultimately, it is our nature to want to give and better things. Just a matter of being selective about what.

 

Quote:how can we sit and watch as one country invades another for monetary gain?

I myself wondered the same thing when watching people label war dissenters as 'unamerican' and 'unpatriotic'. I wondered why an anti-war protest in NYC had been
denied a license to march. It was finally granted but only after war had commenced then I watched as cops blocked streets and divided protesters, pushed them around etc. I also watched as bystanders booed the marchers. Wondered whether it wasnt among the constitutional rights to peacefully rally in the streets. I watched as the media gave a two second sound bite to the march and basically highlighted 'unruliness'. I wondered why most Americans were not concerned about the media ban in Afghanistan and Iraq, and Bush's pronouncement that bodies of dead Americans cannot be shown in newspapers (while he shows pics of Sadaams dead sons). I wondered when America would finally realize that they were being bamboozled by their own government. Basically there were those who did try and argue the decision to wage a revenge war but they were silenced by others and marginalized. If enough had joined them, if enough had insisted on open debate then perhaps government could have been swayed but MOST did not support the movement because of 9/11, the press did not challenge it because they feared being uninvited to the next white house press conference. The majority tow'd the line even if it stank of something bad.

Quote: How can we sit by and watch the millions in Africa die of starvation as we sit down to the Sunday roast? How can we today, with hindsight and a knowledge of what the past has been capable of, sit and just do nothing?

Africa is a continent. There are specific african countries that face famine for a variety of reasons. To understand all the varying factors one must do some historical and present day research because there are many reasons for this and solving hunger is complex. If you want to seek out a group to support concerning this issue check out http://www.foreignpolicy-infocus.org/indices/regions/africa_body.html


or www.globalexchange.org and click on 'get involved'. If you do not find what you are looking for send global exchange an email and they will place you in touch with an org that suits your desired level of involvement. The best way to get involved though is to educate yourself about U.S foreign policy and seek to make changes right here in the U.S.A.

 

Bells:

And what are you doing, besides throwing about stock-insults about sexual orientation and status in relationships?
That's a serious question, not a put-down.
What are you doing? What battles have you fought, what barricades have you defended? You criticise those with vision and drive, you pontificate - and you do nothing.

I don't blame you. But be honest.
And tell me why you haven't.
You claim the highest moral principles, but when it comes to your own skin you prefer your cozy home and comforting entertainments over sacrificing your luxuries to meet other's needs.

You masturbate with your conscience, I prefer my hands.
In all things, I prefer to use my hands rather than my mouth.
Why do you bother? Again, I'm not trying to insult you, I'm not even annoyed, I have Nasheim demos and I am happy - just to understand, because I have never understood.