The American

Discussion in 'World Events' started by WANDERER, Jan 15, 2004.

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  1. WANDERER Banned Banned

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    Every system creates its own ideal; it, unconsciously or consciously, puts into place a set of institutions and values that produce the desired reproduction of particular kinds of human beings and of environments that cultivate a specific type of person.
    Capitalism idealizes the risk taker, the individualist, the greedy consumer, the self-absorbed egotist in order to create a constant flow of capital and a constant state of competition which is necessary for its health.
    Communism idealizes the selfless, the disciplined, the complacent, the non-ambitious and the hard worker in order to control its resources, assure non-competitive cooperation and to spread wealth unevenly.
    Christianity has its own ideal, Islam its own and nature, as the first of all systems, has its very own original ideal; called by Plato the Idea of man.
    Man as a creature that attempts to override and surpass nature herself, has created a series of manmade, artificial systems- some of which are mentioned above- in order to replace or misdirect the original natural inclinations and to substitute the natural idea of man with a human ‘hero’, a man in mans image, a human type produced in mans imagination and created through his artificial systems by his institutions and morals.
    The purpose of all politics, religion and philosophy is this very struggle between opposing artificial ideals that will supersede the original one.
    Some propose a complete denial of the natural ideal [Buddhism], others a complete acceptance of it [Hedonism] while the vast majority propose an amalgamation or mutation of natural tendencies with artificial ones to varying degrees.
    But mans mind has progressed faster than his body and he must invent systems that do not oppose natural inclinations and instincts directly or completely but rather manipulate them and misdirect them into non-natural or super-natural goals.
    For instance, mans instinctual desire to reproduce has been guided through religious and cultural institutions and moralities into the goal of a nuclear family for the sake of social stability and in order for civilization to be made possible, whereas man as pure animal is not a monogamous creature at all.
    Mans instinctual desire to dominate and to aspire to ‘alpha’ status [Will to power] has been mutated into the desire for wealth and luxury through work or through the acquisition of property that keeps accelerated change and capital turnover as a constant normal state, whereas a natural man only owns his body and mind and only holds on to power as long as his mind and body permit him to dominate the others in his group; power is not inherited but continuously earned.
    Mans natural inclination to restrict himself to a limited specific territory has been guided into farming practices, city-states and finally nation states in order to harness and take advantage of more and more resources, whereas man is really a hunter and a forager and survives by utilizing the resources that are readily available to him.
    Through this human tendency to guide instinctual inclinations into unnatural or artificial goals [The replacement of natural ideals with artificial ones] has lead to human discomfort and confusion- mans body tells him one thing while society and culture dictates an opposing behaviour- which is, in my view, the primary reason for many of the psychological dysfunctions in our modern western world. This conflict between natural desires with artificial morals leads to feelings of guilt for never reaching artificial ideals which are against mans very nature. {Even the feeling of guilt is imposed by the artificial system itself and it is the bedrock of all morality}
    Another reason for modern mans confusion and stress is his often participation within multiple artificial systems on top of the original natural one, all vying for his total commitment and discipline.
    For example, in the western system we are forced to exist within a Christian religious system that preaches a certain set of rules that frequently contradict Capitalistic economic system rules and also natural instincts.

    Nevertheless man has already made the first steps into artificial environments and now the only thing left to be determined is which artificial ideal will replace the original one.
    I have through my various essays-‘Human Judgment’, ‘September 11 revisited’, ‘Beware of Greeks…’, ‘Asceticism’ and ‘What about Bob?’- alluded to what I think is the superior artificial human ideal that should replace, enhance or even build upon the natural one.
    Others have opposed my views and defended the current global dominating Capitalistic/Democratic/Judeo-Christian American ideal that now threatens to replace all other systems and substitute all other alternatives with this single one.
    It is, therefore, helpful in my view to illustrate what kind of man this system aspires to and to describe this ‘western modern man’ as I have experienced him personally.
    Some of my criticisms can be ascribed to men and women in other social/cultural/religious systems but I will only speak of that which I have direct experience of and will not attempt to describe ideals I do not fully understand.
    Furthermore, since this ‘modern’ western ideal is more forcefully proposed by the US, I will refer to this type as ‘American’. This is an attempt, on my part, to save time and will recognize that the ‘American’ ideal can be found in all countries and in all continents and is not limited to a geographic or cultural border due to mass media, cross-cultural influences and technological progressions.
    But because this ideal is so completely projected by the US as the future man- I will mention that this kind of man dominates this nation and makes up the predominate majority of its population and represents, more importantly, its elite.

    Characteristics of Modern Western man
    Or
    American

    1] The American is happy in his monogamous marriage. He will excitedly display his affection and complete contentment in his relationship with his wife.
    Yet, he will often fantasize about the neighbour’s daughter and secretly desires his best friend’s spouse. On his computer you will find a library of pornography that attests to his real sexual contentment.
    If he is bold he will pay for what he needs. If he is foolhardy he will go further and indulge his instincts with various women, covertly.
    He will become a sinner according to his own values.
    In public he will keep the image of a happily married man.
    His wife will also put up the front of a happy content wife. Secretly she will fantasize about the hard body at the gym or that bad boy across the street and sometimes she may do more than just fantasize.
    {It is interesting to note that during the ‘50s, a very prude period of western civilization, a study concluded that 10% of all children did not belong to the father of the house. Furthermore is Muslim societies where adultery is sometimes punished with death the phenomenon has not disappeared. Here we can see mans instincts being unable to conform to cultural norms even under the threat of death}
    A relationship built on comfort, ignorance and hypocrisy and contrary to all natural inclinations.

    2] The American loves his job, he is proud of his career. He will detest doing the biddings of others but he will see it as a natural sacrifice of ones time in order to partake in his society’s promised pleasures.
    He will find nobility in service and honour in conformity.
    But he will be plagued by stress and often find solace in drugs, alcohol, fantasy, entertainment and religion.
    He is so pleased with himself that all forms of escapism are sought out by him and his life is so fulfilling that he needs artificial distractions to remain sane.
    {Movie theatre business is booming and DVD rentals are a growth industry; man seeks surrogate adventures to replace their absence in his own life}
    The American really loves his job because his life is so uninteresting in itself that he needs something to fill up all his time with; his mind so devoid of thought that he needs something to think about.
    The American works in order to retire but if he ever does he wouldn’t know what to do with himself.
    The American creates through his work but he never knows what and he never gets to enjoy the finished product. He’s a nameless cog in a huge machine that he neither comprehends nor has control over.
    Work has become a value and slave ethics that speak of the dignity of work are popular.
    The American will spend his whole life toiling towards the goal of social freedom and when he reaches the point when it can become a reality he will discover, to his dismay, that he’s too old to take advantage of it; a lifetime spent dreaming about a time he can never enjoy and a circumstance he can never experience.
    His kids will grow up on his blood sweat, as spoiled brats and egotistical know-it-alls that know the price of everything but the value of nothing.

    3] The American is a consumer. He associates liberty with wealth and consumer choice with free-will. His whole mindset is so corrupted by this idea that he is unable to resist all forms of consuming. His waist line attests to his inability to control this aspect of himself.
    He buys things to fill in the void and once the high of a new purchase wears off a new one must quickly take its place.
    His whole existence is a series of purchases. He displays them like trophies to his greatness and self-worth.
    When one frontier is ‘developed’ into non-existence a new frontier must be conquered or taken from his neighbour. {Capitalism in all its glory}
    The American wears objects like armour. When his sexual prowess wears out he buys a sports-car, when his physical beauty diminishes he adorns himself with expensive distractions, when his youth wanes he buys a new face.
    He hides his emptiness with a full house.
    He must taste everything, he must fill his plate and go for seconds, and he must enjoy all his toys and all his stuff. He is in fact a child; immature and lacking self-discipline; he must have things and have them NOW!!!.
    The American fills the barrenness between his ears with an oasis of external objects; he completely exists on the outside; bigger is better and more is more. There is little inside except insecurity and fear.
    He is shallow and superficial because depth is boring and frightening; everything we do not understand becomes boring and frightening, doesn’t it?
    The very idea of asceticism is deplorable to the American. He sees it as a wasted opportunity to experience pleasure.
    The American is a victim of his own instincts.
    The American doesn’t understand the world mainly because he doesn’t understand himself; his self is a mystery to his self.
    The world is a complete mystery to him and people never cease to surprise him.
    He doesn’t comprehend why others hate him {He figures their jealous of all his stuff}; he doesn’t comprehend why people love him {He figures its because he’s adorable and wonderful}.

    4] The American is motivated by the pursuit of wealth. There is no higher standard for him. With it he intends to buy self-respect, freedom and dignity; he pays for it with self-respect, freedom and dignity.
    The American is never content no matter how much he gains. He becomes so absorbed by wealth that even when he acquires it he cannot enjoy it. He wants more, always more.
    In every conversation the American talks about money, about business about wealth or what he has purchased with it.
    His entire mind is taken by it until nothing else fits in there.
    An American is boring. His entire existence revolves around objects.
    He believes friendship is for comparing portfolios and intimate relationships become investments through which he must be the overall winner.
    The American loves showing off his wealth and rubbing others noses in it.
    But in the end there is always someone that has more and so no repose is possible for him. He must gain more, have more and possess more.
    The American judges others and himself by the amount of things he possesses and by the amount of resources he consumes. He believes a product is as valuable as its popularity: a book is only important if it hits the New York Times top-ten list and a TV personality only as good as the amount of viewers that watch him.
    The American believes having a good time involves, necessarily, spending allot of money; he decides how much fun he’s had by the amount of money he’s bought it with.
    Everything is dollars and cents for the American: life, intelligence, wisdom, education, knowledge, spiritualism, power, happiness, self-worth, confidence, sex, nature, faith, fate, freedom.
    He measures all using this standard and scoffs at ideas or ideals that do not contain some aspect of wealth and privilege.
    The American will spend his entire life, thinking, dreaming, fighting, and hoping for wealth. He needs it to be a better consumer.
    When he dies he will think back to all the things he’s bought and owned and a warm feeling will come over his heart as he drifts into nothingness.

    5] The American is ignorant. He believes knowing things is understanding things.
    He owns many books which he displays, like movie-props, in his study.
    He can quote from many sources, his reading includes many classics and he can name-drop many great minds in conversations.
    The American does not comprehend what he has memorized, he just recites it like a poem. The American lives on surfaces and is afraid of “The Heart Of Darkness”.
    The American has many diplomas that reveal his ability to mimic and reproduce by heart knowledge forced-fed to him through institutions.
    He has passed tests and measured up to standards for which he is exceedingly proud of and believes it is proof of his overall quality of mind.
    The American accepts all knowledge as fact, just as long as the majority holds them as ‘truths’. The American can only think within the box.
    The American believes ‘truth’ is another word for popular. He decides, what is fact, by the amount of minds that hold it to be so and he believes knowledge is bought not acquired and wisdom merely a matter of age.
    The American has dedicated his entire intellectual capacity to the memorization of trivial facts which he uses to demonstrate his mental fortitude. He learns about the world through books and not through his own deductions and accepts the current status quo as the highest of all ‘truths’.
    .



    6] The American is religious. He has morals and ethics. He lives within a strict code of conduct. An Americans ethics and morality, as his interests, only include a specific area outside which he is unconcerned about.
    The American believes he deserves things, that nature, the universe and God owe him for just being himself and for being a good worshiper.
    The American pretends that he is respectful of all religions but in his soul he sees himself as belonging to the One, True faith. He is a closet absolutist.
    All others will go to Hell, all others can go to HELL!
    The American respects life and hates all those that take it, but he has no problem with killing criminals, doctors that conduct abortions and he is unfazed by soldiers that murder in his name.
    But most of all the American hates…hate.
    The American believes he is selfless in his religious attitudes and yet his spirituality always includes a set of rewards waiting for him if he proves worthy; he believes he is giving just as long as it’s not too much.
    The American is compassionate and just; he is the product of compassion and justice.
    If it were not for these ‘morals’ we would not even exist and so he depends on them to keep on existing.
    The American, through centuries of indoctrination, has lost his killer instincts, his cruelty, his nobility and because of this his compassion means nothing.
    He’s a sheep serving, obeying and submitting to slaughter for the benefit of others.
    His moral standards have placated and tamed him to such a degree that his hunter instincts shame him, preferring to be a grazer instead.
    This part of himself, the American keeps hidden and reeled-in the deepest recesses of his soul but every so often his real spirit shines through, giving him shame and making him feel guilty. Here lies the source of his sin, imposed upon him by another’s deficiency.

    7]The American is individualistic. Nothing beyond himself interests him.
    Anything without any immediate value to his being is ignored.
    He loves talking about himself even when talking about others.
    The American thinks the world can go to hell. He is all that matters.
    The American thinks he can make it without anyone’s help and so he despises all those that ask for his, through taxes, and the government that forces him to be compassionate against his better judgment.
    Yet, he also wants safe streets, an affordable education, free health care and if he were ever to find himself in an unfortunate circumstance he would scream out against the apathy and cruelty of the world around him.
    The American cannot foresee negativity; he is completely absorbed in the positive; he will not allow himself to be cynical or pessimistic. He is delusional.
    The universe revolves around the American. It was created for his behalf and he inherits it from his Deity as a son inherits a fortune from a father, but never earns it.

    I would not be honest if I were to say that I did not prefer the American as he is. A wolf relishes a flock of sheep, even if he pities them.
    It is easy to see how this type can be manipulated and taken advantage of when one understands its characteristics and motivations thoroughly.
    All men and women are, firstly, beings of natural instincts and, secondly, creatures of their particular social/cultural/economic environment. The degree by which an individual, of any type, is influenced by one or another system determines his/her specific characteristics governed by his/her past experiences and his/her genetic predispositions.
    This, and only this, is the spring of all individual differences that gives the illusion, of more profound diversities, to those that do not comprehend how character is constructed through systems.
    Many will feel violated or insulted by my opinions because nobody wants to be known really and prefer to keep their true selves hidden from others and often from themselves.
    Most like to think of themselves as unique and special when they are only really different from others in degree rather than in substance. They will point to their unique mode of speaking, or dressing or behaving without understanding that even this slight divergence is produced by a similar motive and instinct as is found in others but only expresses itself outwardly in an unlike manner.
    I can only say that the only persons that can really diverge from the ideal and become unique are those that can gain control over their inclinations and instincts and guide them using their intellect rather than their whims.
    It is only the person that completely acknowledges his negative and positive attributes and accepts them completely that can then construct strategies to overcome or enhance them; it is only he who knows the forces playing havoc upon his reason and the influences and prejudices that create or corrupt his opinions that can hope to be able to choose between self-denying and self-affirming paths and come to become a distinct and unique, true individual, that may play the game of conformity but does not buy into it.
     
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  3. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Commie .
     
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  5. candy Valued Senior Member

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    Does not sound like any American I know.
     
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  7. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    S/He must be silenced.
     
  8. candy Valued Senior Member

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    Explain, please
     
  9. Spyke Registered Senior Member

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    I suppose it's better being pidgeon-holed than corn-holed.
     
  10. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    Man, I want whatever that guy is smoking.
     
  11. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    "Explain, please"
    I was kidding: This thread began with a very cogent post, holding much truth that is offensive to mainstream American thought and mainstream aversion to close criticism. If the author really does not sound like any American you know, you should seek more diversity in Americans if you want to understand what is happening to us.
     
  12. candy Valued Senior Member

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    I like it here in Brigadoon.
     
  13. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Aye, there's the rub.
     
  14. Godless Objectivist Mind Registered Senior Member

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    4,197
    Welcome to Sci-forums


    WANDERER

    I'm only sad that you've met this kind of American, more sad is that you judge 250million souls by the same reasoning. what a cock of shiet!

    First of all, if it was not for America today, you would not have the technological advances the world has seen in such a short period of time, yea the industrial revolution might of started in Britan but it took flight here!!.

    Why do you suppose that is?

    With out this Country and it's ideals the world today would still be riding horse buggies. Most world changing inovations come from this country, from cures of deceases, to brightining the world with electrical power! if it were not for American salesmanship, you wouldn't own a computer with an operating system to write your shiet!.

    That said I will pick thrugh your crap a point at a time!!.

    *The American is happy in his monogamous marriage.

    Explain the divorce rate going up?. LOL. No doubt that the few Americans you've met might of been as you explain, but not everyone is the same if there's one thing here it's diversity.

    * In public he will keep the image of a happily married man.
    Not all of us are the Clintons!.

    *The American loves his job.
    yea right!! Only if your a lawyer, or a high paid executive, and even them hate to work for someone else, most Americans I know rather have thier own small business and be self reliant not to depend on a job. JOB (JustOverBroke)

    *The American creates through his work but he never knows what and he never gets to enjoy the finished product.

    You do contradic yourself here!! We produce, and not enjoy the fruit of our labor? Why then later you call us consumers and all we want to do is own all the toys, Hey! that is enjoying the fruit of our labor, and buying what we produce!. and everyone elses gadgets as well, Every country wants to sell their gadgets here, this is the worlds largest market, we are consumers I won't deny this, but this is done considering if you are able to afford it!. Yea you don't live here do you? do you actually think we don't have a homeless problem here in the US? or that every American owns a Cadilac? You are the one showing ignorance on this topic!.

    *He associates liberty with wealth and consumer choice with free-will. His whole mindset is so corrupted by this idea that he is unable to resist all forms of consuming.

    Get a high paying job and live in poverty, all your income give it to the poor! then I will belive from you this shiet!.

    *His whole existence is a series of purchases. He displays them like trophies to his greatness and self-worth.

    Come and live with me a week, you will find that I am king of Lay-Away at wall mart couse this is the only way I could afford any thing above $150.00. And then you will find that I don't own much, in my one-bedroom apt. I'm not in the minority, quit watching TV, we are not all wealthy over here to display Plasma TV's as trophies, I would't buy a freaking 10K, tv even if I was Bill Gates!!.

    *He is shallow and superficial because depth is boring and frightening; everything we do not understand becomes boring and frightening, doesn’t it?

    Do I sound boring and Frigtening yet? The only thing shallow is your judgement of a few Americans friends you have and then diciding that all Americans are the same!. That is shallow!!.

    *The American is motivated by the pursuit of wealth.
    Talking about George?. Oh! hell I honestly wouldn't mind winning the lotto, say 150ml. would put me on easy street! I think this is a human trait, not only American or otherwise there wouldn't be so many people trying to immigrate here, why do you suppose that is? Do you think that moving here to this country is not for the pursuit of wealth?. Then why does the whole world want to push their gadgets here?. Don't you think that they want a pice of the pie?.

    *The American is never content no matter how much he gains. He becomes so absorbed by wealth that even when he acquires it he cannot enjoy it.

    I see that you are enjoying your new computer? why did you buy it? Aren't you enjoyin it?. Then sell the freaking thing! and go to hell!! LOL... :bugeye:

    *The American is ignorant. He believes knowing things is understanding things.

    Hey before you turn off that computer what name does the operating system have? Microsoft?. LOL..

    I understand plenty, I know much, and I can tell you that your been judgemental by the few Americans that you've met, I can tell that you've not lived in this country other than just a visit, you've not labored with the poor, or had to sustain an appartment of your own in this country, with a minimum wage job, btw that's 5.15dollars US, not much when your rent is 400.00 pr month, a phone, and an electrical bill, an automobil payment of 315.00pr month, and a phone that never quits ringing with bill collectors!!.

    Yea luxury! is having this computer, a dial up internet servise, and a freaking tv, with a dvd, and vcr. LOL the power of Lay-Away at Wall Mart.

    And you dare to call me ignorant!! Asshole!.

    Godless.
     
  15. SpyMoose Secret double agent deer Registered Senior Member

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    WANDERER, you forgot

    8] The American has no patience to spend his time sitting and reading long insults painstakingly crafted by bitter individuals who are intimidated by a lifestyle they do not truly understand, but seems to be more successful than their own ideals. Who have strange messiah complexes and believe that the whole of human psychology and history are opening themselves up so that they can expose and defame the powers that be. The American despises the sanctimonious nay sayer who can only find fault with others and touts it as wisdom, even though it seems like a reflection of his own insecurities.

    You hit the mark with a few of your comments, religion particularly, however your assessment of education seems to drip with a bitterness that I can only assume is of a personal quality that you would not discuss.
     
  16. Ellimist "Nothing of consequence." Registered Senior Member

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    Ha. That is good. I like it. Some of it is true. Some of it is not. Stereotypes are funny.
     
  17. spookz Banned Banned

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    kevin spacey ja?
     
  18. Silverback Registered Senior Member

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    That is one of the most bizarre things I have read in a while. Worth a chuckle, though.

    Who are these Americans of which you speak? Ones you see on your television in a soap opera? An American president who rides on daddy's coat-tails and wallet? Does this include all Americans of every race and financial disposition?

    Generality might be momentarily amusing, but hardly fits any real people in the real world.

    I shan't bother going point by point through your whole post, Godless did that, thank you. But I do wonder about the country you live in. I take it there is no alcohol, DVDs or money, everyone spends their time helping little old ladies across the street for they have no need of employment or possessions?

    I am an American (big surprise, eh?) and I work damn hard for a living. Probably like most of the people on this board, regardless where they live. I don't measure my life by some trophys on a wall of wealth, for I don't have any. I haven't stepped into a church in nearly 20 years and don't plan to do so. I don't consider myself morally, culturally, or in any other way superior to the other posters on this board or anyone else. We are all who we are.

    If you'd like to critisize American politics or it's leaders, by all means feel free and I shall join you. Wave your arm over a large chunk of a continent and say "everyone there is the same" and I'll laugh.
     
  19. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    Wanderer, after reading through that long diatribe, I must ask, has an American done something bad to you in the past? Stolen your job, wife/girlfriend/husband/boyfriend, house, car, idea, etc? Don't you think it's wrong to group all Americans under the one banner of 'their all bad just because they're Americans'? Sure bad one's exist (just as their are bad Canadians, English, Australians, Indians, Chinese, Mexicans, etc), just look at Bush and Co. But I'm sure that the average American citizen is just like you. Although it would be unfair to say that. I don't think all Americans are quite THAT strange

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    . And yes I am kidding, I don't think you're errrr that strange... just a little bit anyway.. hmmm ok nevermind..

    And Wanderer, I don't know what it is about your posts that makes me want to rush to my windows to close the blinds

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    . Maybe it's the

    that you posted in the 'Bye Bye' thread in Free Thoughts that makes me feel this way. Ugh I just felt a chill

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    ...

    Goes to window and shuts blinds firmly...
     
  20. pillowtalk Registered Senior Member

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    i loved that..

    check out your national tv channels dude. college girls gone wild ( or partying somewhere) or how rich people spends money. so, you guys like to watch that shit and you are different?


    if you know anybody living in SF, who does not fit into ''that'' category please tell me. i got sooooo bored..
     
  21. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    Ironically in a way this confirms some of Wanderer's positions.
     
  22. BlueMoose Guest

    David Bowie: Im afraid of americans

    Johnny’s in america, low-tech’s at the wheel
    No-one needs anyone, they don’t even
    just pretend
    Johnny’s in america

    I’m afraid of americans
    I’m afraid of the world
    I’m afraid I can’t help it
    I’m afraid I can’t
    Johnny’s in america

    Johnny wants a brain, johnny wants to
    suck on a coke
    Johnny wants a woman, johnny wants
    to think of a joke
    Johnny’s in america

    I’m afraid of americans
    I’m afraid of the world
    I’m afraid I can’t help it
    I’m afraid I can’t
    Johnny’s in america

    Johnny’s in america, johnny looks up at
    the stars
    Johnny combs his hair and johnny
    wants pussy and cars
    Johnny’s in america

    I’m afraid of americans
    I’m afraid of the world
    I’m afraid I can’t help it
    I’m afraid I can’t
    Johnny’s in america

    God is an american
    I’m afraid of americans
    I’m afraid of the world

    I’m afraid I can’t help it

    I’m afraid I can’t

    I’m afraid of americans
    I’m afraid of the world
    I’m afraid I can’t help it
    I’m afraid I can’t
    Johnny’s in america
    Johnny’s in america
     
  23. Godless Objectivist Mind Registered Senior Member

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    4,197
    spuriousmonkey


    Oh! no doubt. But as far a countries go, the US is the new kid in the block, and if it were not for this kid, that let people choose their leaders instead of having an oligarchy to for ever rule, dispelled many mysticisms, and people were left free to the pursuit of their happiness, which motivated men to invent, and create, America has brought the world a becon of light that the world had never seen before.

    It is not pride, to see facts, it is not patriotism to know history, I'm not originally born in this country, I'm part of what this country is made of, a bit of the whole world.

    I don't judge a country citisenship, by the few people I have met, by what I see on TV, or their Movies, and I've certainly haven't lived in Europe, to say that all Europeans are snobs, and like to be-little everyone that is not white, I can't claim that!! I've not lived there, just because I may see it on TV, I won't respond that this is the way every European must be or feel. That would make an ass of myself as so elonguently WANDERER did with his observations, clearly this guy has nevre lived here, nor worked here for minimum wage and claim that he can consume everything he wants!!.

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    He is judged a nation by what he seen in the movies, television, and the present administration, not by what I've seen and the little I've seen I still could not judge a whole country citisenship by generalizing that this is the way they all must be! he is full of shiet!.

    Godless.
     
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