I suppose this thread is a continuation of sorts of nico's "$350 Billion and counting" thread. My sources put the figure for Iraqi debt at $383 Billion , but hey what's a few $Billion here and there. The cold hard fact of the matter remains: the Iraqi people are being made to suffer, shouldering a debt clocked up by Saddam. Saddam owed Billions to creditors when they happily sold him arms throughtout the 1980's. Saddam has now fled, leaving his creditors wanting their pound of flesh. These creditors off course include the US, Britain, France, a whole host of Eastern European countries, as well as Saudi (owed $25 Billion, although much of this was in the form of loans to Saddam) and Kuwait (owed $17 Billion, also in the form of loans to Saddam) So as the dust settles, the vultures circle Babylon, the real job can now begin. The job of carving up the cake. In London the fat cat plautocrats gather, as the US-Iraq Alliance "decides" Iraq's (their) future (read:interests) The Alliance recognizes the fact that an effective bilateral business organization is essential to enable private sector firms to work together with the government on the many challenges of Iraqi reconstruction. The Alliance was established with the firm conviction that the future of Iraq is critical not only to the people of Iraq, but to regional peace, stability and prosperity, and to the security of freedom-loving people everywhere. .....Bullshit. http://www.umaine.edu/globalfocusseries/ Furthermore is the ironic situation of US/IRAQ Alliance key member, Basil Al-Rahim of MerchantBridge Holdings http://www.mbih.com/_mbih/asp/showcomment.asp?hardcoded=people.htm This asshole was responsible for brokering the business partnership between two esteemed families, the Bush family and the Bin-Ladens, you may have heard of them. Basil (!!!) is a pompous shit. He sits in his plush London office, in his £5,000 saville row suit and dreams up a "points for resources" scheme. This gastly scheme allocates points to all creditors, the larger the debt owed to them the more points they get. Then priority privatisation contracts, utilities etc are awarded to those with the most points on a decreasing scale......sickening. Also of interest: http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1079575,00.html Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
....a little more regarding Iraqi "debt trading" As if carving up Iraq, and turning every single aspect of iraq into a "sellable" comodity wasn't enough for Basil and the other vultures, Iraqi debt itself is now being traded: London -- Prices for Iraqi commercial debt have risen strongly since the fall of Saddam Hussein, but analysts say US investors are holding back from re-entering the market because of legal uncertainties, despite last month's lifting of US financial sanctions. US investors are likely to provide an important market for Iraqi debt, but according to Richard Segal, director of research at Exotix, a brokerage specialising in illiquid emerging market debt, lawyers still have different interpretations of what is allowed under US law http://www.odiousdebts.org/odiousdebts/index.cfm?DSP=content&ContentID=7766 Coming to US stores soon....."Genuine bottled Iraqi Air" now you can experience that mysterious atmosphere of the exotic land of Babylon, with this handy bottled Iraqi Air packaged for you in handy vapouriser bottles. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I was not by any means an advocate of the war. I cannot, however, ascribe the actions of France and Germany to altruism. All goverments are bad (or so it seems) Dee Cee
How about generalising it to saying that all greedy people are bad. Nice thread Wraith, now why doesnt anyone want to play"?
Here Dee Cee, why not just generalize that all people who do not seek greatness are bad? That would be sick After realizing that, how could you say that all greedy people are bad? u reg
I suppose this thread is a continuation of sorts of nico's "$350 Billion and counting Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Well that's for remembering... means a lot. But to the topic... these debts are not going to move. Russian, and ex "communist" state debt is going to stay surely, *that was when they could afford to pimp* Now what do we have here, a invaded, defencless state. Raped, and pillaged Viking stlye, being left with the crums. The Iraqi economy is not going to pick up, IMO any perceived growth is debt incurring one. Argentina looks like a play ground compared to Iraq. Unless Iraqi legally ceases to exist then these debts will exist forever. There is hope for the US oil companies who have no worries on the point of oil liability, they can pull of a "Kuwait 1991" no problem, and they won't be held liable. And meanwhile Iraq has to pay for the clean up most likely. I think Iraqi's are missing the days of this: Miss this? compared to their new economic status: Worthless Let the halhal Big Mac roll! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
privatisation my friend, privatisation. This makes the situation that much worse. How will Iraq be able to afford anything without any other form of income, other then tax. Which in a country where the average salaries is less then $100 a month. Iraq depends on oil, and unless she can nationalize the oil industry she is doomed. I think that the other creditors are going to forgive much of Iraq's debt once the US is gone. But it will be short lived, Iraq would quickly fall apart.
Iraq is not America's to sell Iraq IS for the Neocon Corporate State to sell in the name of America. A contingency as annoying as an election will not be allowed to stand in their way, it has already been fixed. What many in the US do not know is that various Iraq oil piplines are blown up weekly. US forces are impotent against 99% of Arab resistence guerilla warfare tactics. TWO solutions remain 1 Defeat for the US in Iraq. Saving face is not possible in this scenario. 2 Ultra Draconian measures exacted against every Muslim state. This would be justified by a claimed terrorist attack against a US nuclear facility. Carving up radioactive middle eastern oil between Europe, Russia and China would be a hard if not impossible sell. US nukes that limit fallout may not be enough to placate the downwind China. Knowing the weakness of US post war planning an Ultra Draconian plan to kill a billion people is too volitile to considered by anyone except a cocksure George Bush. ........... If you can think of a rosier scenario, how likely do you think it is to succeed under this neocon administration along with its supporting shadow government (as described by Bush).
Controversial plans to privatise all of Iraq's non-oil assets have been attacked by Nobel-prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz. The former World Bank chief economist has warned that laws signed off by US and British occupation forces 'risk social stability and Russia-style asset stripping'.
isn't it against international law for the US (An occupying Power) to make permenant changes to a country, in terms of its finance, constitution, laws or government? Don't they have to "look after it" until it can be handed over to a legitimate power? How does this hold with the change of currency, the disbanding of the army and the proposed sale of all of Iraq's infrastructure and the effective sale of the country in chunks to foreingers count? And how does this all work if you simply put in power (not get elected) a regieme and call it Iraqi and then do this through them?
Indeed. Psycho, we have entered a new century, and it's American We are witnessing Global Geo-political strategy being reduced to the "Playground" mentality. The Bully rules, who's going to stand up to the Bully? Might is right. The rules are being re-written. "we intend to do X,Y,Z, and by golly we're gonna do it dammit. You disagree. Try and stop us"
Iew Every time I look at the PNAC site it gives me the chills. It's seems too eerie to me that Americans today fell this sort of invincibility aura about themselves. But the more and more they perceive to be powerful the less and less they are. American power doesn’t rest on the military; it rests on international public opinion. There are valid reasons why some people like the US. But those WWII vets are dying, the new generation is the most militant and more feverently anti-American there has ever been. This is of course not without reason, the Americans deserve this. After installing numerous dictatorships, and forcing nations to conform to her idealistic and economic models, and even threatening some with sanctions. The US hasn't made many friends, but this new attitude of American policy so eloquently put by wraith: "...You disagree. Try and stop us" Is what is making world opinion just go down the shit hole for the US. I think the war in Iraq has shown the US that yes you can win the battle of Iraq, but you really can't win the war. It's not because the US doesn’t have the military might to do it, it's because the US doesn’t know how to do it. Americans don't learn from other empires mistakes, Britain’s imperialistic forays into Iraq, and the USSR in Afghanistan. The reason is simple Americans think that they are independent of precedent, and independent of history. They cannot be compared to because there never was a state like the US. But for the repression that causes. Numerous empires, from Rome to Britain were almost exactly like the Americans and the Americans can't see what they are doing is what a dying empire does. That final putsch for glory, when it perceives itself to be at the height of its powers. I don't negate the fact the US is the pre-eminent power economically, and militarily. But already American power politically, and her popularity are at all time lows. America’s power rests not on her ability to rape and pillage nations, no it rests on what Rome and the British rested on. Respect, something the US has quickly lost in their own perceived NWO.
well said. The only thing that worries me as that most empires in their death throwes have thrashed and kicked they don't often go peacfully, those in power once they've gone so far will cling to it for all their worth. With Britain and Rome it was messy and drawn out but even in their most desperate lashings out they could only do so much damage once they were on their way down. But i don't know how far a desperate American leadership would go if the current Neo Con's or worse the people who will take over after GWB are in the driving seat when she goes down. After all unlike empires before her they have and are developing more Nukes and worse than any other nation so she really does have the option of "if we can't have it, no one can" *note: I'm not suggesting America is likely to invite armegeddon but if they do go on with the "new american century" and get so far then fall by this time surely the Neo Con Presence will be fairly strong to have allowed this to go ahead, it's already strong, and if they fell i can't say how desperate their death throws will be but i'm sure it won't be pretty*
