I personally don't like how they hit the monks with a stick... I was going to remark on this further but some out there might feel a little offended. Nemesis, your approach makes perfect sense. But who is the One? We, all together, or an entirely seperate entity?
finding meaning To ponder the meaning of a koan seems the surest way to seek darkness. After all, koans are nothing more than verbal singularities belched from the mouths of greedy old men.
Re: finding meaning It is normal to justify ones opinions in some way, especially when they are unorthodox or outside ones field of knowledge. Otherwise one risks appearing to be an idiot.
You misunderstand. I was trying to save you from your fate. There's a little more to this subject than you seem to realise.
my great weakness Yes. You see me clearly. I have always suffered from ignorance, and always will. That is my fate. What is yours?
I don't want to get pulled into this arguement, but I just want to say this. A man who recognizes his ignorance is truely wise, however the man who recognizes his ignorance and never seeks to do anything about it is truely the greatest fool. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
That's absolutely true, and a very wise saying. But I've always thought it has a bit of a weakness. It doesn't suggest how we're supposed to decide what not to be ignorant about. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Dear Voltaire, First, I share your sentiments about the use of the stick. Next, you certainly have asked a good question. If only I were up to answering it. Let's see, I think we should start with the concept of unity as expressed through the Number One as explained by Pythagoras. This number is an expression of itself and can only be itself. So in dividing or multiplying this number, it can only be and exist in its own essence or being. Therefore, it cannot change. Since we pride ourselves in difference, and see difference all around us, we can safely infer the next part of the equation agrees with the Pythagorean philosophy of the Number Two. This evil female allowed difference. So in looking at these differences and being asked to conceptualize what is One, it is difficult at best. Impossible and still be here posting in a forum. So are there clues to this notion of One, God or Unity? Well if we follow this approach, we come to a concept found in the Kabbala called Kether the Crown, the Ain Soph Aur, Ain Soph and Ain. Kether is the God most of us worship. He sits at the top of the Tree of Life. Ego or the projection of self. It is interesting to note that the esoteric name of Kether is Apophis. He is the demiurge and the jealous God who demands you worship him alone. This is where the Jews were slandered as being worshippers of this devil. They do not worship him, they simply knew this is who "we" collectively worship. But there are three levels above him that we could come to know. The first is Ain. This represents the concept of nothingness. We have clumsily substituted the number (if indeed there is such a number) of zero. To some this number has been the bane of civilization and philosophy since there is no such thing as nothing. A space that we consider unoccupied by people or things (furniture, plants, dust) is still filled. So while we can grasp at this concept, it is something we must strive to fully understand. In other words, since we are locked into a world of duality, we can understand the concept by duality or the binary system of artificial intelligence which we use to think. Everything we attempt to understand must be filtered through this approach until we have a taste of real intelligence. So in knowing that things “occupy” a room we imagine nothingness to be when things are removed from this room. Of course, this hardly begins to cover it, but we usually feel quite good about our reactive assessment. Next we come to Ain Soph or “no limit” or “limited light.” Here we come precisely to what I clumsily attempted to explain for I did have a flash of what this means. But in terms of conceptualization, this “limit” is something we can at least attempt to understand for we all know about limits. We then come to the toughy, Ain Soph Aur or “limitless light.” Now we can clumsily attempt a reaction and think that it’s the opposite of having a limit, but what does that mean? If we are bound within a circle, what is outside the circle? Is the circle not contained in something else? Not if we truly recognized what the word and state implied by being limitless. Thus it becomes our litmus test as to whether we stay in this world of manifestation or progress and use the master key to free ourselves. For this concept is impossible to know and impossible to conceptualize while in this present state of artificial intelligence and bondage. If and when we are fortunate enough to climb out of the hole and grasp this notion, we either go crazy or disappear. It depends on well you have done your work and there are dark tales of holy men going mad if not properly prepared. It is that beyond our comprehension to fully realize. So this is what you ask me to do. And being the egotist and asshole that I am, I actually am making an attempt. In terms of it being a separate entity, it is separated from us by consciousness, but it is that which is contained in us and that which caused all to be. It's interesting that sometimes in meditation I have reached this threshold where it seems if I continue, I will disappear. There is always a fear that overtakes me when I reach this point and I stop and withdraw to reality. I believe that the annihilation of what we consider "self" to a large part plays a role in this. For logically, if I am so unhappy and dissatisfied that I pursue spirituality, why would I not just delightedly jump off this cliff? Because my demiurge, my ego, my concept of my self will not yet allow me to do this. YET. And there’s the rub. So to answer your question, I “believe” that it is not a separate entity, but rather from whence we sprang. I simply feel we are cut off from seeing and knowing this. Cut off by the use of our artificial intelligence that simply is not prepared or capable of handling this information. It does no good to go crazy as this is bondage as well. So we must carefully “straighten out” what has gone awry inside and then….voile! In uniting what is separated inside, we gain the proper tools for handling that which is on the outside and thus unite it. In terms of whether we “collectively” are this One, or whether we are “individually” the One, we return to Pythagorean concept of the Number One. It can only be that which it is. I think this is what is so difficult to understand. But the higher sacrificed king that is in our hearts, must be on the throne for this process to happen. There is no other way. So play your game of chess on your binary squares and become a master. You may then free your king! NEMESIS
Dear exsto human and Canute: What can I say? Thank you for your positive comments. I wasn't expecting that. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
My feeling is that these two things are connected. Trainees get whacked as an appropriate and memorable way of reminding them that they are asking stupid questions rooted in duality, and that they should know that such questions cannot be answered by someone else, even if that person is a great master, in fact expecially if they are. Answers to fundamental questions cannot be answered by any master, but must be found for oneself. The reason is, as you say above, that such questions must be asked and answered in dual terms, since thought and language are dual, and therefore any answer that might be given must be wrong. A whack on the head is a good way of pointing out to the trainee that he's asking a damn fool question, and that he should go away and consider what's so foolish about it that a wise man thought he deserved a whack on the head.
NEMESIS, have you ever studied Gnosis and Gnosticism? I'm pretty sure you have, but if you haven't I think it would be worth your while to look into it, I think you will find it of much interest!
nemesis, Great post last time! I used to read about the Kabalah, interesting stuff... well, pardon my ignorance but I have always thought we are all One entity. I was just curious about what you thought. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! As a pacifist I don't approve of people hitting with a stick. I wonder if this actually helps the pupil.
Dear Canute: You are probably very right about this. I’ve felt like slapping people myself, but have restrained myself due to the law frowning on this type of behavior. I do so only verbally at times. Perhaps it’s just a warning to think before we speak? I think what you say also brings us to the comment made by exsto human. Dear exsto human: Yes, exsto human, I have studied Gnostic thought in great depth. In my heart, that’s what I am. When I first read of their belief system, it was like traveling home. At the heart of their belief system was the notion that until one experienced an epiphany, all talk was futile. I believe much the same thing. How can one explain the divine to someone that is blind to it? All you do is describe more of the refraction and reflection of the divine and how it would relate to someone caught in the bondage of this world of dualism. It also seems to tie in with the Native American system where one just went into the woods and had a vision. You stayed there as long as it took. Personally, having a weasel mentality, I never could understand why the person didn’t simply lie about it and come back the first night. But I’m sure the reason is that there might be follow-up questions and if caught in a lie, whack! Right over the head with the Native American equivalent of that learning stick! Dear Voltaire: I quite agree with you about us being one entity. We all have the same source. We are somehow refracted. Like an image in a broken mirror. Interestingly enough, if a hologram is broken, each tiny piece reflects the exact same image as the whole. It’s something to consider. This refracted mirror theory is something I am working on at the moment in a psychological sense. I believe I will try posting my theory on this site for those interested in taking part in a little experiment. In terms of my own life, I am right now attempting to see every single person I meet at a part of myself. They are simply a non-integrated pieces of my personality that I must unite into a whole. This is especially true with those that I have an instant “aversion” to. Those truly are parts of myself that I push away and bury. I have met three people recently who grate on my nerves in the most horrendous way. When I looked underneath it all, I realized they were me and possessed a certain quality that I manifest to others. Then I was presented with the challenge of how do I treat myself when I meet myself face-to-face? My answer was to take the opportunity to “see” what others were seeing in me and to unite these characteristics. It’s quite difficult for I first fell into the old trap of, “Well, sure I’m somewhat like them, but I’m not that bad!” Bad is bad. It is not something one should qualify or speak about in comparative terms. Bad needs to go! How? By uniting it with its polar opposite and then we make it something entirely different. Or like uniting red and green. A color is the color it is because it is reflected and not absorbed. Sometimes it helps to break things down to its simplest terms: Why is the apple red? White light strikes the apple All colors absorbed except red Red light is reflected What color is the apple now? Green light strikes the apple Green light is absorbed. No color is reflected so apple appears black I also study alchemy. It’s what I started out studying. At the very outset, the ancient alchemists all said to study the growth of crystals. From the mouth of babes I found this explanation for the existence of that which we call a crystal: “GROWTH PATTERNS All crystal growth patterns are ordered. No one knows how the crystals can come together and make the formation. Crystals grow from the outside, unlike that of a human being. Particles are attracted to the seed of the formation and then build on up in an orderly pattern. "The only way for a crystal to grow is for the right kind of atoms or molecules to reach its surfaces and fit themselves into the same pattern of order the tiny "seed" crystal has." Time and freedom are needed for the molecules to make perfect crystals.” Time and freedom! Ah, yes, that is what we need. Notice how it says a crystal develops in the opposite way of man. I then remembered something in The Symposium; “In the first place, let me treat of the nature of man and what has happened to it; for the original human nature was not like the present, but different. The sexes were not two as they are now, but originally three in number; there was man, woman, and the union of the two, having a name corresponding to this double nature, which had once a real existence, but is now lost, and the word "Androgynous" is only preserved as a term of reproach. In the second place, the primeval man was round, his back and sides forming a circle, and he had four hands and four feet, one head with two faces, looking opposite ways, set on a round neck and precisely alike; also four ears, two privy members, and the remainder to correspond. He could walk upright as men now do, backwards or forwards as he pleased, and he could also roll over and over at a great pace, turning on his four hands and four feet, eight in all, like tumblers going over and over with their legs in the air; this was when he wanted to run fast. Now the sexes were three, and such as I have described them; because the sun, moon, and earth are three; and the man was originally the child of the sun, the woman of the earth, and the man-woman of the moon, which is made up of sun and earth, and they were all round and moved round and round like their parents. …” “…Zeus discovered a way. He said: 'Methinks I have a plan which will humble their pride and improve their manners; men shall continue to exist, but I will cut them in two and then they will be diminished in strength and increased in numbers; this will have the advantage of making them more profitable to us. They shall walk upright on two legs, and if they continue insolent and will not be quiet, I will split them again and they shall hop about on a single leg.'…” Then we come to this: “Suppose Hephaestus, with his instruments, to come to the pair who are lying side by side and to say to them, 'What do you people want of one another?' they would be unable to explain. And suppose further, that when he saw their perplexity he said: 'Do you desire to be wholly one; always day and night to be in one another's company? for if this is what you desire, I am ready to melt you into one and let you grow together, so that being two you shall become one, and while you live live a common life as if you were a single man, and after your death in the world below still be one departed soul instead of two--I ask whether this is what you lovingly desire, and whether you are satisfied to attain this?'” Now people have always interpreted this as “soul mates” and gone wandering off in the universe looking for this other person. It has given rise to an industry of charlatans telling us where to find this soul mate, etc. It gives us all great reason to be great fools for this other person is inside us all the time. I had written a short treatise on this subject already. You or whoever else who cares to look may find it of interest. An excerpt is as follows: “II. The Brain’s Division as Explained Through Greek Mythology Right now, your brain is probably deeply divided in more ways than one. We must have unity to progress to the next level. You must understand, that the notion of religious elitism rears its ugly head. To anyone that chooses a path, the ego may or may not bestow imaginary powers upon the seeker in order that he may think himself “special.” This happens in order for the seeker to be deluded into thinking that the path he is choosing is the ONLY way. That he is BETTER for choosing his way for it is severer, or harsher, or requires more intelligence. None of this is true. The EXACT SAME PHYSIOLOGICAL CHANGES MUST OCCUR IN THE BODY FOR ENLIGHTENMENT TO TAKE PLACE NO MATTER WHAT THE PATH. This is not to say that everyone should choose the SAME path. As everyone has found out quite early in life, some teachers or methodologies are easier for us to grasp. We are said to have an “affinity” for certain subjects. Thus it becomes quite a natural choice for us to make. It is ONLY when the ego becomes involved, we attempt to find unity by being exclusive in our thinking. It is that much of an absurdity and the ego is an absurdly illogical part of us all. So how do we obtain unity of thought? By recognizing what is there and working with it. We can easily divide our brains into three in a variety of ways. A right and left brain and a subconscious. Also there are two hemispheres and a translator. Thirdly, the brain is also a gigantic conveyor belt for this triune deity. The three layers of this are the Reptilian, Paleomammalian (the limbic system) and Neomammalian parts. This is another subject for another day. If one wishes to read more of this, they are welcome to seek out books by a Dr. Richard E. Cytowic, a noted psychoneurologist and, of course, Paul MacLean as it is his hypothesis. But let us return to these “hemispheres” and the notion of unification. According to the Greeks, the parts of the brain were divided into various Gods and Goddesses. These mythologies were really koans used to test and, more importantly, evoke the powers of memory. For when we awaken our limbic system, our memory theater is awakened along with much more. We are more able to store information, write and compose music, etc. We are more able to do anything that would involve our right brain and, therefore, our ENTIRE brain. It is something to keep in mind if one is trying to engage in any art form for some of us needlessly torture ourselves by going through huge emotional traumas in order to produce results. An example would be someone who only writes poetry when depressed. This is not necessary, but we “think” it necessary because we are unconsciously awakening that part of ourselves in this emotional abyss and find ourselves writing only in those times. We could do much the same thing when we are profoundly happy, but perhaps the individual has not awakened this true euphoria. We also need to become consciously aware of how the process works to gain control of it. In terms of Gods and Goddesses, the left hemisphere of the brain is Zeus. In mythology, Zeus is the great philanderer. He is ever vigilant and aware of every woman in the region. Further, he wishes to have sex with each and every woman. The women it seems were blissfully unaware of him. They were happily bathing in a stream. Or locked in a tower when Zeus barreled in and overtook them. What does this mean? The Greeks were explaining the normal brain function. You see a brainwave originates in this left “Zeus” hemisphere of our brain. It starts at the top of the left hemisphere. It travels across in a downward fashion and reaches the right brain at its base. It is at this stage, our right brain is unaware of the left brain. In terms of Greek mythology it is the Virgin Moon Goddess, Selene or Artemis. The right brain at this point thinks it is just fine as it is and does not need this obtrusive male signal. Thus the notion of Zeus having to “overtake” this unwilling female by any means necessary. You can now see where the Greeks explained this concept perfectly by the use of Zeus and his escapades. Obviously the brainwave is not finished. It then travels down on the left side, simultaneously traveling upward on the right side. It is then the brainwave travels straight across (reasonably straight for a brainwave) and the two sides are “communicating” or “having intercourse.” This is Zeus having sex with Hera, his wife, or any number of wives. The brainwave then travels downward still till it reaches the bottom of the left hemisphere and the top of the right. Once again communication is lost. The right brain now becomes Hekate. The dark moon. The crone. An old woman that has known man, but knows him no longer. It is now we take a look at the shape that was formed by this brainwave. It is the sign of infinity, for this happens and again and again and again till our physical death. So what is needed to keep communication between the two sides? Thoth, Hermes, Hephaestus or Mercury comes into play. These names represent our corpus callosum. The signs of this region becoming more activated as a precursor to higher thought and change is the disquieting feeling of “thinking” in the middle of your brain. It feels very disturbing almost as if you will lose your mind. Almost as though a thought is lodged there as an object becomes lodged in your throat. One may feel increased electricity, like sticking one’s finger in a light socket. I assure you the only thing you will lose is who you think you are. Now for those interested in activating this center, how is this “activated?” Through equalizing your brain by using BOTH sides. This “forces” the two sides to communicate. Think of a hostile negotiation and you will start to get the picture. Now there are several approaches one can use. I will list a few, but I leave it up to you to devise more ingenious ways. An excellent way would be physical activity involving motions where we “cross” arms and legs in front of our body. These sorts of motions even out the hemispheres of our brain and make them communicate. Yoga is rife with these sorts of movements. In fact, it is a goal before beginning any meditation. Also any constant, repeatable pattern of movement that is simple in nature does this. An example is running in a wide circle as in around a track or taking the barre in ballet class. One can also do active mental concentration in “waking up” this right side. There is an excellent book by Betty Edwards called, “Drawing on the Right Side of Your Brain.” I suggest anyone who is interested in becoming more “right brained” do these very simple exercises. I, personally, drew geometric progressions with the help of compasses on graph paper. I held a compass in each hand and performed the exercises as outlined in the book, “Sacred Geometry,” by Robert Lawlor. Celtic knotting is also extremely beneficial. Of course, I am touching the surface of this. I find that it is up to the individual to do the work. If one explains too much or too little, well, the work is lost and the individual simply accepts or rejects what is said. I suggest to you now it is incumbent upon the INDIVIDUAL to take the initiative necessary and perform the work. What happens when true unity is achieved? Several things. Most notably you lose one eye. Not literally, but figuratively. This is called the Eye of Horus. Why? Because you see your right and left eye see things slightly differently. Hold a finger in front of your face a comfortable distance away. Now close your right eye leaving your left eye open. Take note where it is. Now close your left eye and open your right. You see how your finger “moves?” Obviously, there was no movement, the disparity between your eyes provided it. When unity is achieved you will only see “one” thing, in “one” place all the time until you move it. This is the ceremonially sacrificing of one eye. It is often hypothesized about whether Homer was really blind or whether this title was bestowed upon him because he had achieved this feat. If the individual does the work, then what? Now we come to the most marvelous aspect of all. The notion of the Sacrificed God. The heart of all. The magnificent consciousness that lies undiscovered. For there is another being inside us all. Adam Kadmon. The Christ. Krishna consciousness. God. Call it what you will, it lies within our heart. ‘God’s ultimate purpose is birth. He is not content until he brings his Son to birth in us.’ — Meister Eckhart” So there you have it. Greek mythology as it was meant to be used. How we humans love simple answers! Unfortunately, what we want and what we feel will satiate us is not necessary the truth. Sat Nam, NEMESIS
Hmm. Now I'd say you're making it very over complicated. The growth of crystals may be more interesting than that. There may be other ways that they can grow. Various 'quasicrystals' have been found which have aperioditic structural patterns. That is, the 'tiling' pattern around which their growth is stuctured is discontinuous. This means that these crystals do not grow by just repeatedly adding the appropriate atoms at the boundary. They have to plan ahead in some way. It is not known how this is done. Roger Penrose suggests that it is quantum superposition of future states of the pattern which somehow guide their growth in the present, but I don't think anyone knows how it happens at the moment. It doesn't seem to make sense. These crystals grow in a way that doesn't seem to be algorithmic.
Dear Canute: Once again your comments are right on target. The bare bones of how a crystal grows was what I meant to demonstrate, but look at the results it produced! Thank you so much for this. I will pursue it further. And personally I don't think anything is too complicated. Part of the problem is people relying on simplistic thought for complex subjects. Having said that, there is no one right path for anyone. In terms of what this patterning is, I keep returning to this book I've already read. Read about ten times now and I just keep reading it again and again. Each time I read it, it's like the first time for I discover more and more locked into its words and texture. It is "The Theoretic Arithmetic of the Pythagoreans" by Thomas Taylor. I can't help thinking this "crystal" is our very own soul. How it attracts to it what it needs to help us evolve. Not what we want to attract, but what it needs. We have this quote: "The conceptions of the experimental philosopher who expects to find Truth in the labyrinths of matter, are, in this respect, not much more elevated than those of the vulgar: for he is ignorant that Truth is the most splendid of all things, that "she" (my emphasis) is the constant companion of Divinity, and proceeds together with him through the universe; that the shining traces of her feet are only conspicuous in form ; and that in the dark windings of matter she left nothing but a most obscure and fleeting resemblance of herself. This delusive phantom, however, the man of modern science ardently explores, unconscious that he is running in profound darkness and infinite perplexity, and that is hastening after an object which eludes all detection, and mocks all pursuit." Then we have: "Hence, the soul is essentialized in these forms, and neither must her inherent number be supposed to be a multitude of monads or units, nor must her idea of natures that are distended with interval, be conceived to subsist corporeally; but all the paradigms of apparent numbers and figures, ratios and motions, must be admitted to exist in her, vitally and intellectually, conformably to the Timaeus of Plato, who gives completion to all the generation and fabrication of the soul, from things. For the seven boundaries of all numbers, pre-exist in soul according to cause. And again, the principles of figures, are established in her in a fabricative manner. The first of motions also, and which comprehends and moves all the rest, are consubsistent with soul. For the circle, and a circular motion, are the principle of every thing which is moved. The mathematical productive principles therefore, which give completion to the soul, are essential, and self-motive; and the reasoning power exerting and evolving these, gives subsistence to all the variety of the mathematical sciences. Nor will she ever cease perpetually generating and discovering one science after another, in consequence of expanding the impartible forms she contains. For she antecedently received all things causally; and she will call forth into energy all various theorums, according to her own infinite power, from the principles which she previously received. …" "…It contains, therefore, all of them essentially and occultly: but it unfolds each of them into light, when it is freed from the impediments originating from sense. For the senses connect the soul with divisible objects, imaginations fill her with figured motions, and appetites draw her down to a passive life. ..." "…But while we are bound, and have the eye or the soul closed, we shall never obtain the perfection adapted to our nature." “…For this being admitted, it follows that knowledge subsists according to the nature of that which knows, and not according to the nature of that which is known. …” I could have very well quoted the whole damned book, but look at what is said. Is not the crystal the soul? And when our soul is closed and we do not seek, are we not deluding ourselves with the senses and gross appetites? And the divine lady becomes a whore? But when we spiritually progress, we draw to us that which we need...much like your comment! Also there is another aspect found in yogic thought that would tend to support this crystal inside of us. That is the chakras and their colors. Why would light be refracted into these colors if white light were not passing through a crystal? I also can't help but mentioning at this point, Native American and Celtic lore. They both state unequivocally that we could change shape. So in the beginning were we in a more liquid state? Did something happen to freeze or condense us? I remember in Greek mythology that Uranus was originally our father. Then Saturn or Kronos. Next, came Jupiter. Saturn in alchemy has always meant cold and solidification or contraction. Jupiter expansion. So was our true nature frozen and put into bondage? These are just some of the questions that need to be addressed. If I believe Pythagoras, my soul pushes me in this direction. As is stated: "..that to learn is nothing else than for the soul to recollect the productive principles which she contains." So this is what I need to do. Raise the bar and keep on learning until I recollect and gather that which I need to grow. NEMESIS
Argh, too much to read in one go! Gotta fire up that printer again. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
