Spanking your child?

WellCookedFetus
quote
I explain to expect others to attack back, not to attack or enter into conflict is the first lesson to prevent the latter.
---
so the action of hitting or biting back must be immediate and from the person who has been hit or bitten

then your rule would be logical
and void of any hypocritical reinforcers

if i was to take leave of my sences and walk up to someone in the street and hit them obviousely most people would expect people to say they would hit back

but that is not the normal set of events
people are told to not hit back and go to the police and file an assault complaint

i think the expresion of 2 wrongs do not make a rite is what is preached to children

so now look at the most normal set of events in the situation of the child the child does something wrong and the mother says
you wait till your father comes home he is going to hit you for what you have done

so what is the mother doing?
naughty bad mother!

and then the father comes home and says
i love you now im going to show you how much i love you by hitting you

then the child develops one or both of 2 things
either they hit their wife because that is what love is as they have been taught and then their children
or they are taught to hide the wrong doing and expect violent reaction to discovery of such mistakes or errors

what is the lesson you would be teaching them

Banshee
i also know of a very similar case
and many others that vary on similar themes

funny on one hand the child is being taught to not hit and then if the child does something wrong they are hit for the action
then they are told hitting is wrong again and then they are told if they are hit they should not hit back
because 2 wrongs do not make a rite

how fucked in the head can people be
its just soo simple yet very few people have the brain power to understand it

as i said in another post as a joke

come in
sit down
tell me about your mother
or
father

peace light truth love
the path to that we hold above
hypocrites steal feathers from the wings of the dove
trying to fly as their inner child dies
lashing out and screaming
on unfulfilled desires
the answer is simple
the path is so clear
you have to open your heart
if you ever want to hear

groove on all

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ripleofdeath,

I'll repeat my self: "Negative repercussions come from hitting others you know quite well that’s what I meant don't go off into a Straw Man based off a vague example I gave."

Really? I never hit a girlfriend nor do I try to cover-up my mistakes since I have learned that when its found that I tried to cover it up the repercussion are many times worse.

 

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WellCookedFetus
true honesty is rare when accompanied with compasion and empathy and trust

i am curiouse where you draw the line between hitting and not hitting an adult
and would you hit a adult women for the same offence
or would you choose not to hit anyone if they hit you first
assuming you were not being attacked

a straw man?
scarecrow?
i am not familiar with that term

quote
based off a vague example I gave
---
there is nothing vague about hitting a child by the childs perception

two questions for you
1
why should the child not be able to hit you or its mother back if either of you commit the same offence that the child has commited to incur being struck

2
why would you not hit your wife if she commited the same offence that your child has to incur you striking it

are you capable of answering those question consisely
i personaly think you can not answer those questions without being a total hypocrite at the expense of your potential child
but i live in hope

please prove me wrong

quote
aside from my brother we don't get along don't ask
---
could this be an example of something?
i wont pry but you should consider it since you are in posesion of the true facts
i hope you and your brother can heal the relationship

groove on

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The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

1. Person A has position X.
2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
3. Person B attacks position Y: Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

1. I state "Negative repercussions come from hitting others"
2. You state that hitting a person does not mean they will hit back but some other negative repercussion will occur
3. Since Hit a person does not mean they will hit back my position was wrong.

in actually my position was that any Negative repercussions come from hitting others not just hitting back. you simply exaggerated a example I gave to be all conclusive: "The child should not be shield from the world even if the parents don’t hit back you think other people and child won’t?" other people and child won’t?" they my not hit back but they will retaliate by calling the copes, teacher, ect. its still a advent to learn to avoid.

parent is authority you don't hit the parent back, I never did, You don’t attack the boss a even better lesson in life.

You don't hit back period, why is that so hard to understand? you lean from a early age that hitting others you will be punished, later you learn all the moral reasons why: retaliation and repercussions. Spanking is not physical violents, if I attached shock collars on my children so that I would not need to hit them then that would be equivocal (though unorthodox) to spanking. Hitting a another person and punishing your child are very different things, I don’t see a hypocrisy in that.

Sibling rivalry between my brother and me, I get along quite well with my sister, it is not connect to our upbring.

 

Just out of curiosity ...

Hasn't anyone here ever gotten into a knock-down, drag-out
with someone and after the blood cools down, become tight
friends?

:m:

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:m:

 

WellCookedFetus

you need to look at what i have mentioned from a point of developmental psychology

i would suggest you do a little reading about early child development
specificly language acqusition
and development in the time frame that you think hitting is a good idea

i would be surprised if you found any well ballanced psychology
profesionals that think hitting children is a good idea
and a christian scientist is an oxymoron scientist
by the basic definition of sciencetific method and purpose

Chagur
choosing someone to be a friend means making the decision
not to consider them your enemy
if i meet a person who thinks starting fights is a good idea
they are too retarded to be a friend of mine
and would contradict the concept of intellegence

groove on all

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I have taken several psychology courses. I have read many books on rising children and yes hitting children is out, even so I believe personally that it is a flaw belief, I my self have witness it failing horribly and I my self am not traumatized nor a violent maniac just because my parents were strict and spanked me. Also i do not beleive othodox christiens hold to that belief at all:
http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=155456#post155456

 

just to clear things up a little for you

when a child get to about 4 years old it is typical for the child to hit and sometimes to bite prior to that age

if the adult is sufficiently intellegent enough they can hit the child back and bite the child back to show the impact of what the child has done
but it is rare that most adults can control themselfs to be able to do this in a manner that does not go beyond what the child can comprehend as a relative action to violence

THIS ACTION MUST BE IMMEDIATE AND IN RESPONSE TO THE BITING OR HITTING
WHILE SHOWING INNITIAL TOLERANCE TO THE FIRST ACTION USING REASON AND TALK AND DISTRACTION AND THEN BITE FOR BITE HIT FOR HIT

most children would be hitting and biting because they are discovering how they can interact with the environment
it is the mental illness of the adult to believe the child is doing it out of malice

parents often cave in while in the process of using seperation
as a form of corrective behaviour modification
which is the parents fault not the childs

THE PARENT IS THE LAZZY ONE
wanting to think they can solve the issue quickly with a striking process

such people are not ready to be parents and often have the child for ego-centric reasons

enough free education im off to bang my head on a different wall

groove on all

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how would you solve this problem?

 

quote
WellCookedFetus how would you solve this problem?
===
if i had the same income as the average top selling singer or
sports player

i could solve it quite easily
all it requires is for me to have the money to distribute the technology/information
but unfortunately or fortunately for the world i do not
so tuff luck
maybe in another thousand years someone may stumble across the same information

people respect a person who has lotts of money to be worthy of listening to

until then happy hitting

keep groovin

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I repeat how would you solve the problem?, not what you need to do it.

 

what would the information be worth in dollar value?

 

Are you avoiding my question on purpose? what “information” explain what this important parenting information is.

 

I don't advocate spanking at all because I'm pretty sure that a parent can sometimes loose control of themselves.

In rare cases spanking might be okay, but it has to follow strict rules:
- Absolutely no hitting of face, back of head, random blows to the body, pushing the child, and other things that common sense deem to be wrong. A slap on the hand or in the diaper area may be appropraite if done immediately after the child misbehaves.

- Absolutely no spanking of the child by a person other than the immediate parent, no nanny, no teacher, no grandparents. I believe that it's very humilating and bad for the child self esteem to be spanked by a person other than their mommy and daddy.

- Spanking should be brief, constructive, and followed by an explanation of what the child did and a kiss and hug after the child promise to try to think.

- The child should always be reminded of their ability to think before spanking is imposed. Tell them that they didn't think like Barney and Blues Clues do.

- If a child make a mistake and didn't hide it, for example, came and told you that he peed on the carpet behind the desk and showed you the spot, never spank that child, but commend them instead for telling you the truth, because if you spank them, all you'll get is a child that lies to avoid your spanking.

- Never hold a grudge and spank your child five hours after they misbehaved. Punishment should be swift.

I like timeouts a lot, my kids 4 and 2 immediately go the designated corner after misbehaving, they go by themselves and stay there for a couple of minutes, then they get up and apoligize. Even in the middle of the biggest tantrum, if I say time out, the world stops and the child knows what to do.

 

Hmmmm a friend of mine keeps getting called during the day by the nursery because her 2 ½ year old son keeps getting bitten by a girl of similar age there. She bites other kids, but mostly its him about twice a week. The bites are starting to scar.

If you think the girl should be bitten back, but not by the ‘nanny’ and that the punishment should take place immediately are not you not discounting the fact that we live in a modern age where children spend the most time with people who are not their parents?

 

Hi weebee,
I think the nanny have no right to spank the child, but she have all the right to dismiss the child from her facility if his behavior of biting is consistent and can't be corrected by normal disciplnary actions like time outs, deprive from story time, ect.

If I was a nanny, I would discuss with the parent the biting problem. And I would suggest a program at home to solve this problme. Biting in little children is common but has to be reprimended and controlled or it will become a habit. The parents must have ignored this problem at home for it to become such a nuisance at school, I know that for a fact, because my 2 year old son started to bite his 4 year old sister at every slight disagreement between them over some toy. Everytime he bit his sister, I took her side and gave her the toy even thought it was his exclusive car, and he figured out quickly that the key to mom's support and life enjoyment is not biting but kissing up to mom to get what he wants. So now my son kisses up to the nanny or me and hug and kiss and say please, and walla it works like majic and he gets everything he wants.

 

WellCookedFetus
and i could scream out
show me how much money you have
prove to me that you could afford to pay for it

but the reality is it would not go that far (im am speaking in an idealistic way)
as i already know

so that is why i stopped short and asked you the question

what would such knolledge be worth in dollar terms
hypertheticaly speaking
to know how to raise your children to be near geniuses
regardless of some labeled learning dissabilities
and without loosing love or without creating issues that may prevent the child from finding love
without being a hypocrite
free to follow any religion not intrenched to any retardation of
societal disfunction

but ofcourse you do know i am completely crazzy
and obviousely flawed by idealism

groove on

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…or maybe it only came to light when she joined the other children in the playgroup.

But what is the philosophical and psychological distinction between a parent hitting their child as a form of physical discipline, and that of a major care giver using the same form. How could this habit be corrected if the child has no siblings, or if it is exclusively occurring in the playgroup? Could it be that modern lifestyles dictate that some of the responsibly of raising children is placed within schools and playgroups?

I think your advice is good, I’m only trying to raise questions.

 

I agree with my friend when she said that she does not want the girl to get a complex about it. My sister was sat in a cupboard because she would not pay attention in class (she was 4). When I was 6 the teacher made a fellow class mate stand behind my desk to make sure I did not fidget (she gave them sweeties as a reward after the class).

I actually think that the girl should be put in a situation where she is playing with a wider ranging group in terms of age. Now that’s interesting. I remember playing with kids years younger and older than myself. I wonder what effect only playing and socializing with children of the same age will have on kids. . .anyway, will see how it goes with the biting girl!

 

That is a very good question, and the answer is very tricky because emotions and parental instincts and love for the child enters the equation.

First we have to agree that a nanny is a pait entity. And no matter how much of an angel he/she is, if it wasn't for the monetary gain, she wouldn't care for a child that is not biologically her or hers through an adoption. A parent on the other hand cares and keep the child out of pure love for that child. A parent doesn't need money to care for their own child or put up with the misbehavior. I believe that the child can make this distinction and the child can feel genuine unconditional love from nanny's care type of part of her job description love. When a child is spanked by a parent, he/she knows that this spanking is merely to correct behavior and have nothing to do with the parent love capacity to the child. While, when a nanny or another care giver spank, the child is confused because first one other than his parents is now capable of hitting him, and thus anyone can hit him, second, he may think that he's getting hit because his parents are not paying the baby sitter or because the baby sitter discriminate againest him, or that he is not wanted.