hi. i'm new here and this is my 2nd post. sorry if this has been covered before. anyway, this thought struck me while driving the other day. AA (alcoholics anonymous) isn't nearly as effective because it is based on the assumption that humans are innately good. while things such as the hawthorne effect show that humans sometimes go out of their way to please/look better, i feel that humans are naturally selfish. what are your thoughts? i mean, if you think about it, the most straight-edge (and therefore decent citizens) are god-fearing religous people, but only adhere to their moral code hoping to reap the benefits of an eternal afterlife in heaven. so, that's bribery. or am i on crack?
well, danielson. you see.....wax on, wax off. that is all. no really. as far as i'm concerned, i don't think that a human can be defined as simply selfish or unselfish because of the fact that each human is an individual and the way a person act varies. i do believe that most people are selfish, and are only looking out for their own good, in one way or another. no one is perfect (because as is my believe, there is no such thing as perfection, but that is a different matter Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!) i'm not sure what you mean buy the term straight-edge. where i'm from, it definitely didn't constitute a feeling of a decent person. they may of had some good points, but they were for the most part not great people. i also don't like the way that society likes to blend being a good person as also being god fearing. i absolutely believe with ALL of my heart, that you don't have to believe in a god or gods in order to be a good person (and i don't believe that you meant it in that way). but, in defense of god-fearing people, i don't think that the only reason that they do act in a decent manner is not just so that they could go to heaven. in the middle ages you could buy your way into heaven. so obviously back then you didn't have to be a kind person in order to go to heaven, but i'm sure there were certainly good people around back then too. if they could pay their way into heaven, then i don't think their motivating factor into being good was entrance into heaven. Do you understand what i'm saying?
i didn't mean to say that only god-fearing people were good people. i used them to illustrate how people that are normally considered good, kind people have an ulterior motive for acting in the manner that they do.
Welcome to sciforums mirage. Firstly, I would say that AA is a pretty darn effective program, especially considering how hard addiction can be to conquer. I would also say that your notion of "good" is just a social construction. Humans are humans, they do what they do. What is determined as "good" varies from culture to culture. Usually such people have a "bad" side too. Generally it's the case that if you have one extreme within a person, say "goodness", the other extreme is there too. Sometimes it quite repressed, but will manifest subconsciously every once in a while. Most do-gooders have their vices. I feel that a person functions best when they are in a balance, and are aware of all parts of them.
There were also at least 2 studies Ive heard of that show economics students are significantly more selfishly oriented than your average person, and that they thought everyone else was/ should be. That'll be one of the reasons I didnt like my fellow classmates in a module i did.
"In a market economy it is not by the benevolence of the butcher or baker that we expect our dinner..."
some humans appear to be decent on the surface, but i believe self-interest is the key here. when it comes right down to it, who is going to sacrifice their own well being for someone else's gain? with the exception of one's offspring, this doesn't really happen. . . people make exchanges because it's what ultimately keeps them alive. we are still animals; perhaps with a slightly more intense consciousness.
Mankind isn't. We are mean little bastards who will conume worlds in order to fuel our expansion. A person may be nice but people aren't.
i sorta feel that humans are a selfish species that is doing nothing but upsetting the balance of nature (and by nature i mean everything outside of our culture/humanity/whatever). i'm turning into a hippy... NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
If one behaves decently another may behave decently to you. Mutual benifit. Usually we aren't decent to those who aren't decent to you though. *pant*pant*pant*
People are inheritently evil! Lads wish to kill their fathers and who knows what girls think, so I would say humans are inately self-ish too. They think only of themselves and this is true while there is only the id to satisfy, however that changes with the development of the super-ego, and as an awareness of others becomes accepted by the person.
