What do you think about Feminism?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by nico, Jul 7, 2003.

?

Are women.....

  1. Worse off

    4 vote(s)
    22.2%
  2. Better off

    14 vote(s)
    77.8%
  1. nico Banned Banned

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    That is the problem with feminism, it dosen't ask for the women who can it's for all women. Let's say WWI had women conscripted, more women would fail then males do you deny that? Insecurity, and confusion. I live with 3 women, I know. It's not meant to be sexist, but it is reality. Women work differently then men. Men are built for war, men are now renderred useless. They can make babies with skin cells. We are not needed, females are the epitome of human development.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2003
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  3. fadingCaptain are you a robot? Valued Senior Member

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    If you are talking quotas, yep I agree. To say the frontlines of a military must be 50/50 is just as faulty as the opposite. Thats where the original intent of feminism has sometimes been blurred by the overzealous. Still, all in all I do think feminism has been helpful to women in immeasurable ways.
     
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  5. nico Banned Banned

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    But you see that is not what I am deabting what I am saying is that Feminism has gone too far. That all women are like men and all men are like women. That is incorrect there are differences btwn male and female. I think that Lesbian feminism is a good example of a bit too far. That the woman is not dependant on a male, but she is, visa Versa as well. I hope some true feminists can post here and give me examples.
     
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  7. fadingCaptain are you a robot? Valued Senior Member

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    1,762
    My posts were geared at answering the question in the title and poll. Pardon the intrusion

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    Ahh.. but they aren't always dependent, are they? I have lesbian and gay neighbors that are doing quite well without the opposite sex. Just because I am dependent on a female doesn't mean all men are!

    A true feminist I most definately am not.
     
  8. nico Banned Banned

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    3,122
    Now this shocked me about Feminism:

    Conservative Feminism
    Conservative feminism criticizes the feminism which "adopts a male model of careerism and public achievement as female goals, thereby denying women's need for intimacy, family, and children." They fear that "equality means death to the family." They often reject the popular feminist epigram, "the personal is political."


    Some women fell the same way that I do. Now I think that women should have careers, they are better then males in many subjects. Just like males are better than females.

    Ahh.. but they aren't always dependent, are they? I have lesbian and gay neighbors that are doing quite well without the opposite sex. Just because I am dependent on a female doesn't mean all men are!


    I am glad to see that they are open to who they are but they aren't being productive are they? They will never be able to have a child, and they can't be depedant on each other. We are all dependant on a female we all come from one. We were or we are.
     
  9. fadingCaptain are you a robot? Valued Senior Member

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    1,762
    Not sure what you mean by being productive. About as productive as me I guess. Some them have children, either from previous marriages or adoption. And of course they can be dependent on each other if they are in a relationship as such. We are are all dependent on women and men in the sense that it is necessary for procreation. But beyond that...??? Are you suggesting that someone cannot be productive unless they are actively seeking to procreate? We have population issues as it is man.

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  10. Zero Banned Banned

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    .... amidst this titanic, apocalyptic struggle between man and woman .... however improbable, however impossible it may seem, the world moves on, unconcerned.

    -- Zero
     
  11. nico Banned Banned

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    But beyond that...??? Are you suggesting that someone cannot be productive unless they are actively seeking to procreate? We have population issues as it is man.

    Ohhh don't get me wrong I have no problems with homosexuality, I am not a baptist bible pusher. But since I am catholic i am bias. Now I don't want children so i can't really say anything, but talking in the 3rd person here, we are made for one thing only really, Pro-creation. We in the west do have population problems yes, we aren't having enough kids believe it not. In Hungary, Russia and other eastern states there will be population declines, as in Spain, and Germany. It's in India and Africa where you see the major population increases.
     
  12. Qiothus II Majikal Man Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    240
    I apologize for being so blunt, but don't you think that you are being rather ignorant? The goal of feminism should not be to say that males and females are equal on all levels, but neither should it say that one or the other is incapable of something. Granted men cannot have children, but that does not mean that men cannot have just as much compassion for a child as a woman.

    As for the conservative feminism thing, that is a nice thought, but to say that the ideal career model is a man does not mean that there is no woman anywhere that could fit that model of success. Furthermore, I think the idea that equality will lead to the death of family is just plain stupid.

    Finally, the thing about the gay couples...Who are you to say that they are not productive? So they can't have children--that does not make them useless. Men and women are dependent of each other, but there is no problem with gay people. If the last people on Earth were gay, humanity would be doomed, but I don't think that is the case.
     
  13. nico Banned Banned

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    3,122
    I AM NOT A CONSERVATIVE!

    Let me make that clear, god that is the last thing I wish upon anyone.

    I apologize for being so blunt, but don't you think that you are being rather ignorant

    And who are you to decide that you side is right? There is no true right or wrong in this debate. Are you being a little elitist and egotistical? Do you disagree that all mankind is dependant on females? Mankind wouldn't exist if it wasn't for females. With the new advancements in cloning and the like with conception with cells not sperm the man is in terminal decline. The epitome of Primate physical and mental development is in the female. Men are going to become a play thing, needed for fun sex. Just like women were treated before. Women are going to in the future going to control the bedrooms of the west. That will mean a systimatic shift in power.

    Furthermore, I think the idea that equality will lead to the death of family is just plain stupid.


    As do I but I think they phrased it incorrectly instead women forced to work is wrong. My sister had a child and she wants to take of it all day, she dosen't to work, but feminists would view that as being weak and as subserviant to the male stereotypes.

    Who are you to say that they are not productive?

    My friend I am not saying it, we all know it.

    :bugeye: Unless of course they can have children?
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2003
  14. Thaug Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    124
    Those statistics aren't exactly the most accurate in the world.

    It mentions some, but ill get into why its not what I was talking about.

    Don't get me wrong its a good article I ususally can never find an article on the internet that admits statistics arent 100% correct.

    It goes on some more but I can note something things it didn't really take into account such as education level and what that education is in. A higher percent of women go into social sciences then men. The men that do go into social sciences more often then women go into economics. Also there are more men on the PhD level then women. When you get to the higher levels you have to make personal sacrafices. Women also are the only people that give birth, how nice that maybe it will almost always hurt your career. For months you will be out of the work force and it will take even longer to catch up to male counterparts that stayed in the rat race. Later on ill try and find some stats on the internet that try and take these into acount.
     
  15. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    5,574
    Oh, cool.
    well I can deal with feminists if its ok to hit them

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  16. SwedishFish Conspirator Registered Senior Member

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    1,908
    whoa whoa too many myths to tackle at one time. please remember that this is a forum roughly related to science so let's keep it in that realm. if you are going to make generalizations about the sexes, back them up with unrefutable scientific evidence, not cultural fictions.
    the only difference between the sexes is a small amount of sexual dimorphism. and even this is not so significant since there are species that can change sex at need. any differences in behavior are learned. this can be backed up by examining different societies and the behavior of the sexes therein. mead provides a good analysis of just three different cultures and the rolls of men and women within them and their beliefs about how men and women are different. look at the senecas- in their tribe, only women are allowed to handle any aspect of food production (farming, hunting, harvesting, cooking). look at how that is broken up by early americans. in some western cultures, children are the property of their fathers and belong to them in case of divorce. not so in some more familiar ones. i believe this matter can be resolved by looking at the wealth of biological, psychological and anthropological knowledge.


    and yes dr lou, i'm up for a good 'rassle' anytime

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  17. daydream_believer Et in Arcadia Ego Registered Senior Member

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    126
    What do i think?

    I think feminsism is cool so long as it's equality, not female superiority. I mean, equality is the most important thing, isn't it?
     
  18. SwedishFish Conspirator Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,908
    Re: What do i think?

    absolutely. the criticism is that there is currently male superiority and has been for a while. no amount of pushing has helped this. i think some versions of feminism seek to overshoot in order to end up somewhere near the middle.
     
  19. Marigny Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    186
    i'm all for it babe

    i don't know about you guys but i'm glad for feminism.
    i'm also glad for the polite gentlemen who open doors for me, i'd do the same for a guy of course.

    women are generally more apt to understanding "balance" when it comes to living life, inside and out more so than men. Although men i feel have more blood energy to do certain things that women can't do. and the idea that ms mackinnon said about men giving the acceptance in the first place, is basically close to the truth but it's more intricate. it's a shared feeling, you men give me what i want and we women, for example, give you what you want.

    i'm going to admit it, emotionally and sexually (doesn't mean i want sex all the time, but generally speaking) men are a good shoulder and arm to hang on (dependency if need be) but yeah, girls can live on their own, hold on to a good career, live their lives without the company of a man. feminists want to be considered that they're worth more than they were years before, that they can do the job just as good. doesn't mean they want to be better than a man although there are some men who aren't worth their lot. ha. girls don't get paid the same as a man in the same field, not really, and that's another issue. women have got to work harder and pump out more energy than the average man. it's been done to a degree but biologically speaking, it's generally not able: ie, men have at least 10 percent rbc's more than the avg girl. that's a fact. i'm in awe at what a man can do! it gets me hot and bothered sometimes. haha. but in a virtuous way.

    while nico says that mankind couldn't exist without woman, woman couldn't exist without man. after all, it's your sperm that carries the life, we just keep, nurture it, love it, all in the name for you guys. damn you. lol.
     
  20. mountainhare Banned Banned

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    3,287
    I have nothing against feminism, unless (as one person says) it is made into female superiority.

    I think that sometimes a few women are aiming for superiority, not equalism.

    It is hurtful when extremist women put down ALL men. They forget that it was decent MEN who struggled against the majority to change the traditions. To give them the right to vote, equality, work, etc.
     
  21. CuriousGene Supreme Allied Commander Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    114
    Your Poll Makes NO SENSE . . .

    Are they better or worse off to what???

    That's the problem nowadays. People cannot seem to communicate clearly.
     

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