” The point is not that the claim “The brain is a digital computer” is false. Rather it does not get up to the level of falsehood. It does not have a clear sense. You will have misunderstood my account if you think that I am arguing that it is simply false that the brain is a digital computer. The question “Is the brain a digital computer?” is as ill defined as the questions “Is it an abacus?”, “Is it a book?”, “Is it a set of symbols?”, “Is it a set of mathematical formula?”---John Searle
IMO, Except for the terms "digital computer" and "abacus", those examples are all irrelevant. One of the reasons for the computing argument is that brains do not deal with "numbers" but with generic biochemical interactive "values" that are being processed and yield "results", following certain natural mathematical/physical processes. The brain is a biological data processing machine and evidence lies in one of its most important regulatory functions of the subconscious brain, "homeostasis", the constant maintenance of the body's physical and chemical balance via calculations of "differential equations" of biochemical values. Homeostasis I believe the term "Master equation" applies here. Master equation The Homeostatic part of the brain maintains the desired "ratios" of the prevailing differential equations, in accordance to evolved biochemical efficiencies. This system is autonomous and does not rely on conscious control. Homeostasis remains active even when the "organism" is under anesthesia. Anyway, this is how I see the processing of the system's "biological values" i.e. calculation/computation. Apparently this does not necessarily require a brain, but is already functional in cellular interactions ( see slimemold). The evolution of neural networks allowed for the formation a central processing organ (brain) to develop. Note the schematic homeostatic variations that emerged as species gradually adapted to their environment. Example; Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Does an octopus know what colour it is? more ... https://www.aquarium.co.za/news/how-does-an-octopus-change-its-colour-and-shape# The octopus' body itself is a computing machine.[/quote]
"Throughout history we have used technological systems as metaphors to describe how the body and brain might work. Early on, Greek water technology led to the four humors, and that they must be kept in balance. By the eighteenth century both clock mechanisms and flows of fluids were used as metaphors for what happened in the brain, and by the first half of the twentieth century a common metaphor for the brain was a telephone switching network. Indeed, the mathematics that had been developed for signal propagation in telegraph and telephone wires were used to model action potentials in axons. By the sixties, cyberneticians were using models of negative feedback originally developed for the steam engine, and greatly expanded upon during the war of the forties for controlling the aiming of guns, to try develop models for the brain. But these soon ran out of steam, so to speak, and were supplanted in the general consciousness by metaphors of the brain as a digital computer. One started to hear claims of the brain as the hardware, and the mind as the software, a model that really did not end up helping our understanding of either the brain or the mind very much at all. Throughout the later parts of the twentieth century the brain became a massively parallel digital supercomputer, and now one can find claims that the brain and the world wide web are similar in how they work with webpages and neurons playing similar roles, while hyperlinks and synapses map to each other. Stepping back from this one might suspect that metaphors for the brain will continue to evolve as technology evolves, with the brain always corresponding to the most complex technology we currently possess. One should therefore expect the metaphors for the brain to continue to evolve along with our technology."---- Rodney Brooks, robotics and AI pioneer https://www.edge.org/response-detail/25336
I think that the definition "digital computer" is too narrow because the neural network processes both electric and chemical data, which adds an extra dimension of biochemistry to the equations. Perhaps the term "biological computer" is more descriptive of the beast?
By that measure, would you consider the thermostat that turns your air conditioner on and off a "data processing machine", then? Just like a thermostat. Just like a thermostat, which is always "under anesthesia" (not conscious). So, by your measure, a thermostat 'processing' the ambient "temperature values" is also carrying out a computation? That sets a very low bar for what you mean by computation or data processing, don't you think? A thermostat doesn't require a brain, either. You're just stating a tautology. The brain is an organic neural network.
Not at all. IMO, all data processing that yields a "result" is a computation. Where would you set the bar when data processing becomes computation? Except for an emergent consciousness, what does a brain do that is different than all data processing in Eukaryotic organisms, whether they have a brain or not?
Is the brain a computer? I'll say that I believe that it is, in the broader sense that it's an information-processing system. But its architecture and mode of function seems to be dramatically different than that of today's conventional algorithmic stored-program computers. The key to understanding how brains work might perhaps be found in today's neural network computing that is dramatically transforming AI as we speak. I think that might be the case and suspect that kind of architecture is much more similar to brain architecture, both anatomically and functionally. It's taught from large data sets rather than programmed with determined algorithms, for one thing. Size, interconnectedness and (yes) randomness of the network become strengths. (There's not enough information stored in human DNA to determine all neural interconnections and the 'settings' of all their countless synapses.) Memory might not be stored on memory drives but rather in how the whole network is configured by turning synapses up or down, we might say. (Which suggests that it might be foolish to imagine downloading a person's memory or personality from their brain. You would have to download the detailed description of the entire network.)
I believe that memories are stored in special stable neurons by category And this pleasant surprise: An AI search assistant "C0pilot" https://www.bing.com/chat?q=how do ...995F08F91CB99&ghsh=0&ghacc=0&ghpl=&showconv=1
So, regarding your air conditioner thermostat: Is the thermostat "processing data" when it switches the air con on or off? Does the thermostat carry out a "computation"? What's the difference? Can you please define the terms "data processing" and "computation" for me? I assume you have some meaning or other in mind. Your question doesn't make sense. Organic brains, where they exist, are all parts of eukaryotic organisms. Brains presumably process data. (I'm assuming however you're defining "data processing", it will include what brains do.) So, part of the processing of data by an eukaryotic organism is whatever processing the brain is doing in that organism. It then makes no sense to ask what the brain is doing differently compared to all data processing in the organism. What the brain is doing is not at all different from what the brain is doing, obviously, and it is doing at least some of the data processing. Probably you meant to ask what brains do differently compared to other things that do data processing in eukaryotic organisms - especially ones that don't have brains. I guess the answer to that is: the brains differ in that they do the things that only brains can do, while the non-brains don't do the things that only brains can do. This seems like a no brainer! (See what I did there?)
Yep, yes it indicates a change in temperature, relative to a calibrated mean. https://www.bing.com/search?q=does a thermometer compute temperatures&pc=GD01&form=GDAVST&ptag=3601 The difference lies in the machine that does the computing, which does not only include the digital computer, but any form data processor capable of returning a "result". (all computation is mathematically based data processing) I'll let Copilot do the answering https://www.bing.com/search? =generic%20computing&qs=SYC&showconv=1&sendquery=1&FORM=ASCHT2&sp=11&lq=0 No, I have expressed the mind's meaning as clear as I am able. IMO, there are many natural computational processes going on aside from human made data processors. Computational chemistry Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! A dichromium metal complex with electrostatic field surrounding it. Modelled using WebMO.[6] Overview[edit] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computational_chemistry Exactly, that is the point you are disputing. All data processing that results in measurable change, is a form of computing. No, that is your position! My position is that ALL data processing in ALL Eukaryotes is done by microtubules and that makes the microtubule networks do data processing and/or computing. Yes, you completely miss the point that all computable data in Eukaryotes is processed by microtubules in both the "non-neural cytological MT network" and the "neural MT network", including the brain. Note: Microtubules are a common denominator in all Eukaryotic life, regardless of the presence of neurons or brain.
To Find Life in the Universe, Find the Computation The discovery that life on Earth looks a lot like information propagating itself offers new clues, and new directions, to the hunt for life elsewhere If we ever find life elsewhere we should look for the presence of microtubules. We are beginning to use artificial microtubules for a range of applications. Artificial microtubules for rapid and collective transport of magnetic microcargoes Abstract https://www.nature.com/articles/s42256-022-00510-7
Octopuses aren't one of the smartest animals on Earth. They are smart for an invertebrate. They might be in the same category, in that regard, as a dog. As far as the brain as computer analogy, that's not accurate. There is a memory bank where memories are recalled. They are recreated each time from many different area of the brain, areas to recall smell, sight, emotion, etc.
Apart from humans, how do dogs stack up to other great apes? And how do we partition computer memories? AFAIK, Octopuses have excellent "problem solving" abilities, and that is a major factor in learning and adapting. Both abilities are favored by natural selection. Octopus Problem Solving: Unraveling the Mysteries of Cephalopod Intelligence more ... https://animalatlantes.com/octopus-problem-solving/# Consider the environment and the survival skills that are required for an unprotected animal.
At the Seattle Aquarium one was smart enough to move the lid on its tank and crawl down the side to the floor. It wasn't smart enough to not do that so it died on the floor.
It got lost, so what? And how many people die in the wilderness 30 yards from their own camp. Not smart enough to survive in an alien environment? If we compare this feat of problem solving we can readily see the advanced intelligence at work.
I didn't imply that they weren't intelligent or capable of solving problems. They are a mollusk though.
A thermostat is performing a computation, is it? Do you believe that every reaction to any stimulus at all amounts to a computation, then? When a block of ice melts in the sun, is it performing a computation? When an apple is blown off a tree by the wind, is the apple (or the wind) performing a computation? When a sunflower faces towards the sun, is it performing a computation? When you pull too hard on the seatbelt in your car and it locks in place, is the seatbelt performing a computation? Are all of these things examples of "data processing"? Are you outsourcing your thinking to Copilot these days? Am I going to have a conversation with you, or should I cut out the middle man and just talk to Copilot directly? So you would consider all of the examples I just gave to be forms of computing? Your digestive system processes food and produces shit as one of the outputs. Is this the work of microtubules? Is it data processing? Wait! This is new. What is "computable data" and how does it differ from other kinds of data? What other kinds are there? Cells are a common denominator in all eukaryotic life. So what? Information can't propagate itself. Why? Like in transporting things, similar to putting water through a pipe?
