George Floyd trial,could you make a case for the defendant not being guilty of the charges?

Michael 345 · Apr 16, 2021

wegs said: ↑

Yea, I believe that the evidence pointed to Chauvin's actions not being the sole cause of Floyd's death, but a strong contributing factor. And that he didn't try to save his life.
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Consider the drugs in Floyd's system - overdose levels - as soon as the police heard "I have swallowed some drugs" call urgent ambulance attendance

Failure to provide duty of care begins at that moment

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Seattle · Apr 16, 2021

Michael 345 said: ↑

It does, which again is puzzling. 98% is a good reading, especially for someone with Floyd's Medical history. I would have put his normal level to be below 90%

And if he died at the scene (as per stated his eyes flickered when he was being held down under the knee) no way would it be 98% at the hospital

Was there any question which asked "What were Floyd's VITAL SIGNS on arrival at Emergency Department hospital?"

VITAL SIGNS Pulse / Blood Pressure / Breathing - basic stuff
Blood samples taken for analysis
ADD
Level of consciousness / pupil reactions / hydration
BODY EXAMINATION
Hidden wounds - external and internal / photo and swab for analysis

My 2 cents that is what both prosecution and defence should go on EVIDENCE and does it match cause

98% O² saturation does not = asphyxia

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My understanding is that he died at the scene and was merely pronounced dead at the hospital. There were no vital signs at the ER.

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Michael 345 · Apr 16, 2021

Seattle said: ↑

My understanding is that he died at the scene and was merely pronounced dead at the hospital. There were no vital signs at the ER.
Click to expand...

Found this
MINNEAPOLIS — By the time George Floyd was en route to the hospital Monday evening, he was unresponsive and without a pulse. But for nearly an hour, first responders and ER staff refused to give up on the 46-year-old St. Louis Park man in their care.

https://www.ems1.com/fatal-incident...iac-arrest-when-ems-arrived-xtikhsaX8aF14EFn/

No mention of flat line but extremely likely. The DEFIBRILLATION units today are automatic

Lack of pulse (fingers at wrist or neck) does NOT exclude heart fibrillation (rapid, irregular, and unsynchronized contraction of muscle fibers). Very hard to detect with fingers

If the heart is FIBRILLATING a automatic DEFIBRILLATION unit has something to work with. Flat line on the monitor - nothing to work with - will not fire

Over a hour working on Floyd I would put down to wishful thinking

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Seattle · Apr 16, 2021

I guess the positive aspect of this is that Floyd's 5 kids will now receive $27 million from the city of Minneapolis.

billvon · Apr 16, 2021

In today's news, it turns out that one of the witnesses for the defense - David Fowler - is being sued for covering up the death of a black teen who was being held by police in Maryland. Fowler is being sued for "making false representations about the significance of Anton’s myocardial tunneling; misrepresenting and exaggerating the role of anomalous right coronary artery; [and] claiming that bipolar disorder contributed to Anton’s death." Anton Black died in police custody under very similar circumstances, also captured on video.

I am thinking this will not help his credibility.

https://lawandcrime.com/live-trials...ering-up-black-teens-death-in-police-custody/

wegs · Apr 16, 2021

billvon said: ↑

In today's news, it turns out that one of the witnesses for the defense - David Fowler - is being sued for covering up the death of a black teen who was being held by police in Maryland. Fowler is being sued for "making false representations about the significance of Anton’s myocardial tunneling; misrepresenting and exaggerating the role of anomalous right coronary artery; [and] claiming that bipolar disorder contributed to Anton’s death." Anton Black died in police custody under very similar circumstances, also captured on video.

I am thinking this will not help his credibility.

https://lawandcrime.com/live-trials...ering-up-black-teens-death-in-police-custody/
Click to expand...

I ran across this, too. He and Brodd both came across as sketchy “expert” witnesses, imo. You just hope the jury thinks the same and isn’t easily swayed by fluff. But, I can see at least one juror having reasonable doubt.

Bells · Apr 16, 2021

Michael 345 said: ↑

I heard few minutes ago (near midnight here Bali) Floyd O² level was 98% (normal)

This was from the expert prosecution witnesses who was called back because the defence had brought up the possibility of carbon monoxide being cause of death (tail pipe of police car)

Unfortunately I have no idea the time the 98% relates to

Apparently the defence was saying carbon monoxide MIGHT be cause of death (tail pipe of police car) and a mention of 18% Carbon Monoxide

However the expert witness (Tobin) stated with a 98% O² level the MAXIMUM Carbon Monoxide was the remaining 2% (O² and Carbon Monoxide compete for the same Oxygen carrying protein)

Now my problem is WHEN was the reading of 98% O² level made

I don't think it could be 98% if Floyd died at the scene. The O² level would not be 98% at the hospital

Also 98% seems to me to high for asphyxia to be cause of death. It also seems to be to high given Floyd's Medical history

I would put HIS NORMAL everyday level not higher than 90%

My $0.02 cents in the box

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He was already dead and they attempted to resuscitate him in the ambulance. The oxygen levels were measured in the emergency room, after the paramedics had spent several minutes attempting to resuscitate him and provided him with artificial breathing in the ambulance..

There was no pulse for several minutes that Chauvin had his knee on his neck. When the paramedics arrived, he was in cardiac arrest.

Kueng checked Floyd's wrist but found no pulse;[8] the officers did not attempt to provide Floyd with medical assistance.[17]:6:46 According to the criminal complaint against Chauvin, Lane asked Chauvin twice if they should move Floyd onto his side,[84] and Chauvin said no.[17]:7:02

At 8:27 pm, a Hennepin County ambulance arrived.[12]:5:56[17]:7:11 Shortly thereafter, a young relative of the owner of Cup Foods attempted to intervene, but was pushed back by Thao.[12]:6:03 Emergency medical technicians checked Floyd's pulse.[17]:7:17 Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd's neck for almost a minute after the ambulance arrived, despite Floyd being silent and motionless.[17]:7:21 Prosecutors said that Chauvin's knee was on Floyd's neck for seven minutes and forty-six seconds.[a][12]:6:27[17]:7:28[8]

Around 8:29, Floyd was lifted by paramedics onto a stretcher,[85] then loaded into an ambulance.[17]:7:43[8] Lane boarded the ambulance and checked Floyd's pulse at his neck, and a medic instructed him to perform cardiopulmonary resuscitation.[86] A medical device was placed on Floyd's chest to provide mechanical chest compressions,[86] and the ambulance departed for Hennepin County Medical Center.[12]:6:35[17]:7:43[8]

En route, the ambulance requested assistance from the Minneapolis Fire Department.[12]:6:35[17]:7:43[8] At 8:32, firefighters arrived at Cup Foods;[12]:6:56[17]:7:56 according to their report, the police officers gave no clear information regarding Floyd's condition or whereabouts, which delayed their ability to find the ambulance.[17]:7:56[87] Meanwhile, the ambulance reported that Floyd was entering cardiac arrest and again requested assistance, asking firefighters to meet them at the corner of 36th Street and Park Avenue. Five minutes later, the fire department reached the ambulance;[17]:8:10 two fire department medics who boarded the ambulance found Floyd unresponsive and pulseless.[12]:6:56

Floyd was pronounced dead at 9:25 at the Hennepin County Medical Center emergency room.[12]:7:12[17]:8:28[8][88]

They would have used oxygen when attempting to resuscitate him in the ambulance.

Brain death occurred while he was still on the ground, under Chauvin's knee. Tobin gives a bit of a break down of the events:

Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd’s neck for 3 minutes, 2 seconds, after Floyd took his last breath, Tobin said. After that last breath, Floyd’s oxygen levels went down to zero and Floyd “reached the point where there was not one ounce of oxygen left in the body,” he said.

As prosecutors repeatedly played a video clip of Floyd on the ground, Tobin pinpointed what he said was a change in the man’s face that told him Floyd was dead. That moment happened around five minutes after police began holding Floyd down.

“At the beginning, you can see he’s conscious, you can see slight flickering, and then it disappears,” Tobin said. He explained: “That’s the moment the life goes out of his body.”

[...]

Tobin also testified that just because Floyd was talking and can be seen moving on video doesn’t mean he was breathing adequately. He said a leg movement seen in the footage was an involuntary sign of a fatal brain injury, and that a person can continue to speak until the airway narrows to 15%, after which “you are in deep trouble.”

[...]

Tobin said he analyzed Floyd’s respiration as seen on body-camera video and explained that while fentanyl typically cuts the rate of respiration 40%, Floyd’s breathing was “right around normal” just before he lost consciousness.

Tobin also said the high blood level of carbon dioxide measured in the emergency room can be explained by Floyd not breathing for nearly 10 minutes before paramedics began artificial respiration, as opposed to his breathing being suppressed by fentanyl.

Tobin clearly notes that Floyd was not breathing (he was not breathing and had no pulse when the ambulance arrived) and they resuscitated him in the ambulance, or attempted to.. Tobin points to the exact time on the video when Floyd died and was without oxygen for several minutes. Floyd's oxygen levels were measured in the emergency room as normal practice in a resus situation and given he would have received that level of oxygen in his blood from the artificial respiration performed in the ambulance. But he was brain dead.

Seattle · Apr 16, 2021

Bells said: ↑

He was already dead and they attempted to resuscitate him in the ambulance. The oxygen levels were measured in the emergency room, after the paramedics had spent several minutes attempting to resuscitate him and provided him with artificial breathing in the ambulance..

There was no pulse for several minutes that Chauvin had his knee on his neck. When the paramedics arrived, he was in cardiac arrest.

Kueng checked Floyd's wrist but found no pulse;[8] the officers did not attempt to provide Floyd with medical assistance.[17]:6:46 According to the criminal complaint against Chauvin, Lane asked Chauvin twice if they should move Floyd onto his side,[84] and Chauvin said no.[17]:7:02

At 8:27 pm, a Hennepin County ambulance arrived.[12]:5:56[17]:7:11 Shortly thereafter, a young relative of the owner of Cup Foods attempted to intervene, but was pushed back by Thao.[12]:6:03 Emergency medical technicians checked Floyd's pulse.[17]:7:17 Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd's neck for almost a minute after the ambulance arrived, despite Floyd being silent and motionless.[17]:7:21 Prosecutors said that Chauvin's knee was on Floyd's neck for seven minutes and forty-six seconds.[a][12]:6:27[17]:7:28[8]

Around 8:29, Floyd was lifted by paramedics onto a stretcher,[85] then loaded into an ambulance.[17]:7:43[8] Lane boarded the ambulance and checked Floyd's pulse at his neck, and a medic instructed him to perform cardiopulmonary resuscitation.[86] A medical device was placed on Floyd's chest to provide mechanical chest compressions,[86] and the ambulance departed for Hennepin County Medical Center.[12]:6:35[17]:7:43[8]

En route, the ambulance requested assistance from the Minneapolis Fire Department.[12]:6:35[17]:7:43[8] At 8:32, firefighters arrived at Cup Foods;[12]:6:56[17]:7:56 according to their report, the police officers gave no clear information regarding Floyd's condition or whereabouts, which delayed their ability to find the ambulance.[17]:7:56[87] Meanwhile, the ambulance reported that Floyd was entering cardiac arrest and again requested assistance, asking firefighters to meet them at the corner of 36th Street and Park Avenue. Five minutes later, the fire department reached the ambulance;[17]:8:10 two fire department medics who boarded the ambulance found Floyd unresponsive and pulseless.[12]:6:56

Floyd was pronounced dead at 9:25 at the Hennepin County Medical Center emergency room.[12]:7:12[17]:8:28[8][88]

They would have used oxygen when attempting to resuscitate him in the ambulance.

Brain death occurred while he was still on the ground, under Chauvin's knee. Tobin gives a bit of a break down of the events:

Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd’s neck for 3 minutes, 2 seconds, after Floyd took his last breath, Tobin said. After that last breath, Floyd’s oxygen levels went down to zero and Floyd “reached the point where there was not one ounce of oxygen left in the body,” he said.

As prosecutors repeatedly played a video clip of Floyd on the ground, Tobin pinpointed what he said was a change in the man’s face that told him Floyd was dead. That moment happened around five minutes after police began holding Floyd down.

“At the beginning, you can see he’s conscious, you can see slight flickering, and then it disappears,” Tobin said. He explained: “That’s the moment the life goes out of his body.”

[...]

Tobin also testified that just because Floyd was talking and can be seen moving on video doesn’t mean he was breathing adequately. He said a leg movement seen in the footage was an involuntary sign of a fatal brain injury, and that a person can continue to speak until the airway narrows to 15%, after which “you are in deep trouble.”

[...]

Tobin said he analyzed Floyd’s respiration as seen on body-camera video and explained that while fentanyl typically cuts the rate of respiration 40%, Floyd’s breathing was “right around normal” just before he lost consciousness.

Tobin also said the high blood level of carbon dioxide measured in the emergency room can be explained by Floyd not breathing for nearly 10 minutes before paramedics began artificial respiration, as opposed to his breathing being suppressed by fentanyl.

Tobin clearly notes that Floyd was not breathing (he was not breathing and had no pulse when the ambulance arrived) and they resuscitated him in the ambulance, or attempted to.. Tobin points to the exact time on the video when Floyd died and was without oxygen for several minutes. Floyd's oxygen levels were measured in the emergency room as normal practice in a resus situation and given he would have received that level of oxygen in his blood from the artificial respiration performed in the ambulance. But he was brain dead.
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I agree with everything you've post but wonder about the logic of one point (which likely just shows my lack of medical expertise). If the oxygen level was normal (elevated) due to artificial respiration in the ambulance wouldn't the carbon dioxide levels be normal as well?

Not that this changes anything (he was dead before he got to the hospital), just wondering about why oxygen was raised artificially and carbon dioxide wasn't lowered artificially as a result?

Michael 345 · Apr 16, 2021

Bells said: ↑

He was already dead and they attempted to resuscitate him in the ambulance. The oxygen levels were measured in the emergency room, after the paramedics had spent several minutes attempting to resuscitate him and provided him with artificial breathing in the ambulance..

There was no pulse for several minutes that Chauvin had his knee on his neck. When the paramedics arrived, he was in cardiac arrest.

Kueng checked Floyd's wrist but found no pulse;[8] the officers did not attempt to provide Floyd with medical assistance.[17]:6:46 According to the criminal complaint against Chauvin, Lane asked Chauvin twice if they should move Floyd onto his side,[84] and Chauvin said no.[17]:7:02

At 8:27 pm, a Hennepin County ambulance arrived.[12]:5:56[17]:7:11 Shortly thereafter, a young relative of the owner of Cup Foods attempted to intervene, but was pushed back by Thao.[12]:6:03 Emergency medical technicians checked Floyd's pulse.[17]:7:17 Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd's neck for almost a minute after the ambulance arrived, despite Floyd being silent and motionless.[17]:7:21 Prosecutors said that Chauvin's knee was on Floyd's neck for seven minutes and forty-six seconds.[a][12]:6:27[17]:7:28[8]

Around 8:29, Floyd was lifted by paramedics onto a stretcher,[85] then loaded into an ambulance.[17]:7:43[8] Lane boarded the ambulance and checked Floyd's pulse at his neck, and a medic instructed him to perform cardiopulmonary resuscitation.[86] A medical device was placed on Floyd's chest to provide mechanical chest compressions,[86] and the ambulance departed for Hennepin County Medical Center.[12]:6:35[17]:7:43[8]

En route, the ambulance requested assistance from the Minneapolis Fire Department.[12]:6:35[17]:7:43[8] At 8:32, firefighters arrived at Cup Foods;[12]:6:56[17]:7:56 according to their report, the police officers gave no clear information regarding Floyd's condition or whereabouts, which delayed their ability to find the ambulance.[17]:7:56[87] Meanwhile, the ambulance reported that Floyd was entering cardiac arrest and again requested assistance, asking firefighters to meet them at the corner of 36th Street and Park Avenue. Five minutes later, the fire department reached the ambulance;[17]:8:10 two fire department medics who boarded the ambulance found Floyd unresponsive and pulseless.[12]:6:56

Floyd was pronounced dead at 9:25 at the Hennepin County Medical Center emergency room.[12]:7:12[17]:8:28[8][88]

They would have used oxygen when attempting to resuscitate him in the ambulance.

Brain death occurred while he was still on the ground, under Chauvin's knee. Tobin gives a bit of a break down of the events:

Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd’s neck for 3 minutes, 2 seconds, after Floyd took his last breath, Tobin said. After that last breath, Floyd’s oxygen levels went down to zero and Floyd “reached the point where there was not one ounce of oxygen left in the body,” he said.

As prosecutors repeatedly played a video clip of Floyd on the ground, Tobin pinpointed what he said was a change in the man’s face that told him Floyd was dead. That moment happened around five minutes after police began holding Floyd down.

“At the beginning, you can see he’s conscious, you can see slight flickering, and then it disappears,” Tobin said. He explained: “That’s the moment the life goes out of his body.”

[...]

Tobin also testified that just because Floyd was talking and can be seen moving on video doesn’t mean he was breathing adequately. He said a leg movement seen in the footage was an involuntary sign of a fatal brain injury, and that a person can continue to speak until the airway narrows to 15%, after which “you are in deep trouble.”

[...]

Tobin said he analyzed Floyd’s respiration as seen on body-camera video and explained that while fentanyl typically cuts the rate of respiration 40%, Floyd’s breathing was “right around normal” just before he lost consciousness.

Tobin also said the high blood level of carbon dioxide measured in the emergency room can be explained by Floyd not breathing for nearly 10 minutes before paramedics began artificial respiration, as opposed to his breathing being suppressed by fentanyl.

Tobin clearly notes that Floyd was not breathing (he was not breathing and had no pulse when the ambulance arrived) and they resuscitated him in the ambulance, or attempted to.. Tobin points to the exact time on the video when Floyd died and was without oxygen for several minutes. Floyd's oxygen levels were measured in the emergency room as normal practice in a resus situation and given he would have received that level of oxygen in his blood from the artificial respiration performed in the ambulance. But he was brain dead.
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Floyd's oxygen levels were measured in the emergency room as normal practice in a resus situation
I know I have been there and done that

and given he would have received that level of oxygen in his blood from the artificial respiration performed in the ambulance
Very doubtful he would have had 98% O² levels normally and I have not seen 98% O² levels on people being resusted with oxygen

But he was brain dead
Likely but would need a electroencephalogram (EEG) to confirm

And CAUSES OF DEATH was given as asphyxia (as I referred to in my previous post below) So I don't know how you would go from lack of oxygen causing death to having a O² level of 98% via oxygen assisted cardiopulmonary resuscitation

I thought I covered the other aspects in a previous post so will put it here again

(continued next post)

Michael 345 · Apr 16, 2021

(continuing on)

Michael 345 said: ↑

Found this
MINNEAPOLIS — By the time George Floyd was en route to the hospital Monday evening, he was unresponsive and without a pulse. But for nearly an hour, first responders and ER staff refused to give up on the 46-year-old St. Louis Park man in their care.

https://www.ems1.com/fatal-incident...iac-arrest-when-ems-arrived-xtikhsaX8aF14EFn/

No mention of flat line but extremely likely. The DEFIBRILLATION units today are automatic

Lack of pulse (fingers at wrist or neck) does NOT exclude heart fibrillation (rapid, irregular, and unsynchronized contraction of muscle fibers). Very hard to detect with fingers

If the heart is FIBRILLATING a automatic DEFIBRILLATION unit has something to work with. Flat line on the monitor - nothing to work with - will not fire

Over a hour working on Floyd I would put down to wishful thinking

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Click to expand...

Seattle said: ↑

I agree with everything you've post but wonder about the logic of one point (which likely just shows my lack of medical expertise). If the oxygen level was normal (elevated) due to artificial respiration in the ambulance wouldn't the carbon dioxide levels be normal as well?

Not that this changes anything (he was dead before he got to the hospital), just wondering about why oxygen was raised artificially and carbon dioxide wasn't lowered artificially as a result?
Click to expand...

Tobin the specialist Doctor did say with O² levels at 98% the MAXIMUM Carbon Dioxide CO² level would be was 2%

Since I didn't see parts of the trial I am going to have to presume the Defence brought up the 18% number for CO² level being cause of death

Which would mean Floyd WAS BREATHING -- just the wrong stuff CO² from the tail pipe, not O² from normal air

I don't know if anywhere in Emergency Department notes "blood noted to be cherry red in colour" was put down

That's the colour blood goes in CO² blood poisoning

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billvon · Apr 16, 2021

Michael 345 said: ↑

I don't know if anywhere in Emergency Department notes "blood noted to be cherry red in colour" was put down

That's the colour blood goes in CO² blood poisoning
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You are thinking CO (carbon monoxide) poisoning - not CO2 (carbon dioxide.)

Also keep in mind that a cold cup of coffee has an O2 sat of 100% - because it is at equilibrium with the atmosphere.

candy · Apr 16, 2021

I do not believe the exhaust fume poisoning theory but if I did in this case it would be like saying the water drowned the victim as opposed to the person holding their head under the water being responsible for them dying. If the victim died from the exhaust fumes while he was being held down the person holding him down is responsible.

Michael 345 · Apr 17, 2021

billvon said: ↑

You are thinking CO (carbon monoxide) poisoning - not CO2 (carbon dioxide.)

Also keep in mind that a cold cup of coffee has an O2 sat of 100% - because it is at equilibrium with the atmosphere.
Click to expand...

Guilty as charged.
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. Exhaust gas carbon monoxide

Don't know about cold coffee mine always hot

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Tiassa · Apr 17, 2021

wegs said: ↑

This witness introduced the idea that possibly the tail pipe exhaust contributed to Floyd's death. This is getting absurd. Yea, anything and everything except Chauvin killed Floyd.
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This is not unusual in police argumentation. The idea is akin to old political discussions comparing equality and sameness: If only everything else was the same as it's supposed to always be, then maybe, just maybe George Floyd would not have died. As such, we owe it to the accused to consider how unfair it is to expect him to take into account that not all human beings are statistical matches to textbook theory. Even more so if there is no proper textbook instruction for appropriate kneenecking. Chauvin, by this thesis, should be able to 929 anyone who he thinks needs it, and they should all live, therefore it's not fair to charge him because George Floyd was cheating.

In these United States, the defense only needs one juror.

Bells · Apr 17, 2021

Michael 345 said: ↑

Floyd's oxygen levels were measured in the emergency room as normal practice in a resus situation
I know I have been there and done that

and given he would have received that level of oxygen in his blood from the artificial respiration performed in the ambulance
Very doubtful he would have had 98% O² levels normally and I have not seen 98% O² levels on people being resusted with oxygen
Click to expand...

A close friend of mine was resuscitated with oxygen... We found her unconscious and she wasn't breathing when we found her. I had started mouth to mouth as my son called an ambulance. Her heart stopped a couple of minutes later. We started CPR, ambulance arrived a few minutes later. Her oxygen saturation levels was at 97% when we got to the hospital with her.. But there is no neurological response and she's essentially brain dead.

So depending on how long the resuscitation went on for, I'd imagine. With my friend, it went for a good 15 minutes before she was loaded into the ambulance. They managed to resus her, but brain death had already occurred. Probably before we got there.

Michael 345 said: ↑

And CAUSES OF DEATH was given as asphyxia (as I referred to in my previous post below) So I don't know how you would go from lack of oxygen causing death to having a O² level of 98% via oxygen assisted cardiopulmonary resuscitation

I thought I covered the other aspects in a previous post so will put it here again
Click to expand...

He died on the road. Resuscitation could very well have increased his oxygen levels back up to 98%, but the resuscitation attempts were obviously not successful in hospital, where he was pronounced dead around an hour later. Paramedics had reported that they had attempted to resuscitate him for 30 minutes or so before they got to the hospital.

He suffered brain death while Chauvin knelt on his neck, due to lack of oxygen during that time. That is why they are saying he died of asphyxia.. I thought that was pretty clear from all reports already.

The ER doctor who declared him dead was quite clear in his testimony: https://www.staradvertiser.com/2021...t-lack-of-oxygen-stopped-george-floyds-heart/

Michael 345 said: ↑

Tobin the specialist Doctor did say with O² levels at 98% the MAXIMUM Carbon Dioxide CO² level would be was 2%

Since I didn't see parts of the trial I am going to have to presume the Defence brought up the 18% number for CO² level being cause of death

Which would mean Floyd WAS BREATHING -- just the wrong stuff CO² from the tail pipe, not O² from normal air
Click to expand...

Floyd stopped breathing just over 5 minutes of being knelt on his neck and back. He was knelt on for over 9 minutes.

The car exhaust argument is moot and frankly ridiculous. As are the numerous arguments trying to excuse Chauvin of murder.

Michael 345 · Apr 17, 2021

Bells said: ↑

and she's essentially brain dead.
Click to expand...

Brain dead OR profoundly unresponsive?

Bells said: ↑

The ER doctor who declared him dead was quite clear in his testimony: https://www.staradvertiser.com/2021...t-lack-of-oxygen-stopped-george-floyds-heart/
Click to expand...

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2021...t-lack-of-oxygen-stopped-george-floyds-heart/

Perhaps it's the formation of terminology

From the above link

Floyd’s cardiac arrest — the stopping of his heart — was caused by asphyxia, or insufficient oxygen.

Rearrange
Cause of death - Cardiac Arrest - last link in chain of events
PRECIPITATED by - lack of oxygen
AGGREGATED by - compression of trachea (police kneeing on neck) - limited chest expansion (prone position) - respiratory depressant drugs

Again my 2 cents in box

Hennepin County Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Andrew Baker ruled Floyd's death last May a homicide and identified the cause as "cardiopulmonary arrest" that occurred during "law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression" -- all findings he stood by in court on Friday.

https://news.wttw.com/2021/04/10/he...rge-floyd-s-death-were-not-main-cause-medical

Floyd - Un-intended suicide by police
ie a non intended death by cop

Derek Chauvin - Failure to provide Medical Assistance in a timely manner

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wegs · Apr 17, 2021

Reading a few threads on Twitter about this case earlier and it’s amazing how so many believe Chauvin should be acquitted. Not will be, but should be. They don’t like being labeled racists, but how they could view evidence from the prosecution, watch the bystander video (and other police officer body cam footage) and think Chauvin “did nothing wrong,” what else could it be?

If Chauvin “did nothing wrong,” then they have willfully ignored expert witness testimony on the prosecution side and in my opinion, had their minds made up long before deliberation. It’s pretty scary that all it takes is one juror who perhaps kept his/her bias out of the picture when being selected for this jury, to throw the trial.

Seattle · Apr 17, 2021

wegs said: ↑

Reading a few threads on Twitter about this case earlier and it’s amazing how so many believe Chauvin should be acquitted. Not will be, but should be. They don’t like being labeled racists, but how they could view evidence from the prosecution, watch the bystander video (and other police officer body cam footage) and think Chauvin “did nothing wrong,” what else could it be?

If Chauvin “did nothing wrong,” then they have willfully ignored expert witness testimony on the prosecution side and in my opinion, had their minds made up long before deliberation. It’s pretty scary that all it takes is one juror who perhaps kept his/her bias out of the picture when being selected for this jury, to throw the trial.
Click to expand...

Why must it be race? Let's say someone just doesn't like Floyd because of his drug use, past criminal history, etc. Would they like him if he was white, a drug addict and criminal? I don't know the answer to that but race certainly isn't the only answer.

Regarding cops (in general) being racists. Has there been a large number of law abiding black doctors, lawyers, corporate managers who have been shot/killed by the police? If racism was the predominate reason for these actions it should occur to most black people just because they are black rather than to just those committing criminal acts in their communities.

Regarding acquitting Cauvin, two arguments were made, prosecution and defense. You are suggesting that it must be racism if someone gave more credence to the prosecution's argument over the defense's argument. Is that logical?

I think he will probably be convicted of something since there just is no great explanation for his behavior for those last 5 minutes.

wegs · Apr 17, 2021

I just don’t feel Floyd’s character or behavior on that day, or in the past relating to criminal activity, is on trial. As you state, there is no explanation that excuses holding someone down when they’re not responsive, and/or unconscious. My point has more to do with that a juror could have racial bias, unbeknownst to his fellow jurors and will acquit no matter what.

geordief · Apr 17, 2021

wegs said: ↑

I just don’t feel Floyd’s character or behavior on that day, or in the past relating to criminal activity, is on trial. As you state, there is no explanation that excuses holding someone down when they’re not responsive, and/or unconscious. My point has more to do with that a juror could have racial bias, unbeknownst to his fellow jurors and will acquit no matter what.
Click to expand...

If it had been Putin he was squeezing the life out of it would have been equally reprehensible.

Chauvin's crime may have been first and foremost against George Floyd but was also against us all.

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George Floyd trial,could you make a case for the defendant not being guilty of the charges?

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Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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George Floyd trial,could you make a case for the defendant not being guilty of the charges?

Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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Seattle Valued Senior Member

Google AdSense Guest Advertisement

Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

Google AdSense Guest Advertisement

Seattle Valued Senior Member

billvon Valued Senior Member

wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

Bells Staff Member

Seattle Valued Senior Member

Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

billvon Valued Senior Member

candy Valued Senior Member

Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

Bells Staff Member

Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

Seattle Valued Senior Member

wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

geordief Valued Senior Member

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