Religion and women.

Bells · Jan 25, 2021

Jan Ardena said:
This seems to be a common analysis. Tell me what you think, if you like...

In the case of an erection, stress and anxiety can interrupt how your brain sends messages to the penis to allow extra blood flow. Stress and anxiety about ED can also contribute to a cycle of ongoing ED. Experiencing ED can lead to behavioral changes that contribute to anxiety and incidences of ED.
https://www.healthline.com/health/erectile-dysfunction-anxiety-stress

I don’t know about the other men here, but I would think that some psycho woman slobbering frantically over my penis, holding a gun to my head, threatening to squeeze the trigger if I don’t get hard enough, for her to rape me, would kind of cause a bit of stress and anxiety.
Please explain the biology, and, or the psychology that would bypass that.

You are applying a bizarre standard.. Almost movie type standard.

Physical manipulation and stimulation, Jan. Involuntary reaction.

Sometimes he could be asleep, drunk, stoned, etc. Most of the time, there is no gun. Most of the time, there is coercion, threats, some force, etc. And in cases of male on male rape, there is often physical force and threats.

You have come up with this bizarre scenario that actually beggars belief.

Jan Ardena said:
That is rape yes.
But that’s not one woman holding a gun to your head.
Of course multiple people can hold you down, or a woman could spike his drink, or a few women could hold down a guy. But that doesn’t mean he’s going to get hard while she gets her kicks.
Which is what we were specifically talking about.

You are the one obsessed with the gun to his head.

And again, it can take only one person. Rape is sex without consent.

Jan Ardena said:
Meaning what?
I might be a rapist?
I hope you’re not going there.

I was actually questioning your frankly pornographic obsession with how a woman could arouse a man to rape him. The demand for details, even after the question was answered.. Repeatedly... Is bordering on pornography. For example:

Jan Ardena said:
So we’re back to this.
So she holds a gun to his head, to the point where the dude is incapable of defending himself. What does she then do in order to get this stressed man to get an erection?

This has been answered multiple times already.

Jan Ardena said:
You can always answer the question.

I did.

Stop demanding we cater to whatever rape fantasy you dream up to explain to you how the male victim could get aroused.

And stop asking ridiculous questions in comparison.

Jan Ardena said:
Consent doesn’t necessarily make it right.
My point is that in some cultures, adultery is classed as a heinous crime, and in other cultures it’s actually encouraged. Consent does not make it right.

Consent in the context of this discussion means no rape.

If you wish to discuss consent in regards to euthanasia, that is a subject for an entirely different thread.

Jan Ardena said:
It’s not a transliteration of the original text.
So where did it come from?

Probably the standard English version.

The KJV literally means the same thing.

How much further are you going to try to go parsing this to try to deny it means rape?

And I'm not even broaching on the subject of the woman's choice or say in the matter, because that's another horrendous thing for her voice and choice to be taken from her.

I mean, the earlier passages describe the same wording as a crime worthy of death, but when it comes to the virgin who is not betrothed, it's not rape?

Jan Ardena said:
It doesn’t say he raped her...

If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Ive taken the liberty to look at what his meant by the bold statement, as that seems to be the only reference you could use to claim rape...
That phrase is translated from the Hebrew word taphas, which is described as...

to catch, handle, lay hold, take hold of, seize, wield

(Qal)

to lay hold of, seize, arrest, catch

to grasp (in order to) wield, wield, use skilfully

(Niphal) to be seized, be arrested, be caught, be taken, captured

(Piel) to catch, grasp (with the hands)

Now please explain how that verse means the woman has been raped, as opposed to consenting.

And there's the answer to that question...

A man "lays hold" on a woman and lies with her, by your own definition of what "lay hold of", is use of force and would classify as rape. Seize, arrest, catch, grasp, wield, be caught, be taken, captured..

The passage is well recognised as discussing rape, Jan.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5615/neareastarch.78.4.0294?seq=1

"Rape", as we understand it, was a word that existed back then. Back then, it fell under the umbrella of adultery or sex before marriage. If he lay with her, even if by force, he would still be made to marry her and she, to marry her rapist.

Do you understand now?

Jan Ardena said:
Yes I understand that rape is wrong.

Well, that's a start..

Jan Ardena said:
Yes.
Where is the talk of ownership, in that verse?
Bethrothed means the person to whom one is to be married to. I’m not sure if that’s what you’re referring to.

Paying her father for her..

The rapist paying the money to her father, is a bride price. It's the transfer of property rights by way of monetary compensation.

It was actually very common and still is very common in many parts of the world.

Jan Ardena said:
Yes.
Do you understand that there is no mention of rape in that verse, according to the Hebrew lexicon.

Because "rape" is a modern term in the context of this discussion and did not exist in that context when the text was written.

If you wish to look at the historical meaning - "The term rape originates from the Latin rapere (supine stem raptum), "to snatch, to grab, to carry off" - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape#Etymology]

And then compare it to what you defined above:

to catch, handle, lay hold, take hold of, seize, wield

(Qal)
1. to lay hold of, seize, arrest, catch
2. to grasp (in order to) wield, wield, use skilfully
(Niphal) to be seized, be arrested, be caught, be taken, captured
(Piel) to catch, grasp (with the hands)

It would describe rape.

You do understand this, yes?

Jan Ardena said:
You’re the one claiming that verse is about that.

Because it is well recognised as discussing rape.

Jan Ardena said:
I’m simply showing you that it is not. It’s simply two people having sex and getting caught.

After the girl is 'seized/captured/caught/taken/arrested/etc'..

By any definition, such acts would amount to it being rape.

Jan Ardena said:
I already showed you what happens, in that same culture, to rapists. They get harsher punishment than rapists do today.
It says it right there in black and white...

The irony is that they use the same language to describe the actions of the man who is later killed... But you say that in the case of the virgin who is not betrothed, it's not rape..

Jan Ardena said:
But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die:

In this those days women who were betrothed or married, did not engage in sexual activity outside of marriage, they were upheld as chaste.
Not looked down upon.

Too bad about the virgin then..

She's made to marry him.

Jan Ardena said:
Lol! There’s no need to make excuses.
For those people it was all about progeny.
Not like today where it is about independence.

If you try and use today’s standard to make judgments on that culture, you will never understand it.

You're leaving out the important thing in the context of this discussion.

It was all about ownership.

Jan Ardena said:
I’m showing that the idea that religion/Christianity is not the cause of men abusing women.

No one is saying it is.

But it has helped protect and enable the abuse of women and children.

Jan Ardena said:
Anyway I know Bells has an itchy trigger finger, and will most probably ban me.

Say what now?

Xelasnave.1947 · Jan 25, 2021

I had a terrible fall and luckily only have a sprained wrist and three fingers sprained which has stopped me working and playing the guitar..on left so it is not the end of the world....it is a miracle that I did not break something...when I say miracle I mean very lucky as obviously entities that create universes probably have better things to do than minimise damage when an old man falls over...miracle just means good luck.

But it's like I have been directed back here and clearly just in time to expose Jan.

Happily DMOE reminds us in each post he makes that he is still alive but suffering from lack of blood to the brain...

But Jan...oh dear what can one say...you have been feeding the forum red herrings pretending to be stupid just to divert attention from the proposition that Christian men are more likely to use domestic violence than any other group.

First let all members understand what Jan is up to....the material that I posted earlier, setting out the relationship between religion and disrespect for women and linking of domestic violence to an apparent christian entitlement given in tbe bible in many many passages...is so compeling and so very well evidenced that Jan will do anything and everything to divert attention (as Bells says twisting like a pretzel) from that material and also diverting attention from the damning story provided by Billvon of rape and murder set out most clearly in the bible .... Jan started by trying to sidetrack the discussion by laying down many red herrings that entirely diverted attention from both Billvons biblical story and the material that I posted showing the reality that Christian men are more likely to commit domestic violence because they believe their religion entitles them to do so...reading the many passages that gives them authority to treat woman as second class we can easily conclude these Christian men certainly are not making things up when they say the bible authorizes their bad behaviour...it does..that is well evidenced.

Jans red herring..adultery and rape...how was that ever to do with the murder of everyone of the defeated save the virgins who were given to the men as spoils of war as mere possessions ...I think we can reasonably assume that sex with these virgins would not have been consensual..I mean think of these poor girls, terrified having seen all their family, mother father, big brother sister and babies butchered..I doubt if they would ever get over such horror such that they could accept the murder of their loved ones in their bed...think of the reality, think of the absolute horror...then think how Jan tries to make out its ok because of adultery or something.

It is bad enough that such deeds make it into a Devine book but to have a man of this modern era defend it is beyond disgusting and shows just how evil is this cult of Christianity...

Jan has diverted attention and now has people arguing about rape, adultery and sexual arousal, when we all know what is rape and what is not.....the forum is falling for Jans red herring tactic.

All his talk of adultery and rape and marriage was just a ploy to avoid discussion on the issues...Billvons story had to be swept under the carpet and certainly getting back here I think that Jan sure is a sneaky air theif but not sneaky enough for me not to notice.

When everyone looks at how he moved the goal posts you will realise the lengths he will go to hide the truth...just ask the virgins in Billvons biblical story..is there any way they were not raped...ask how horny you may feel after seeing your baby sister smashed on the corner stones of your house, or to see the sword come thru your mother's chest as see tried to cover you from the attack, to see you father decapitated and the soldier kicking his head out the door... all would be rape victims ....and any one who would take the stand Jan has taken is terribly sick unrealistic and brain washed such that defense of such evil is his knee jerk response...

Jans only response to the material that I posted is to say it is wrong or that the authors are unreliable and yet there is so much smoke I doubt if he would find no fire if indeed he really looked...he knows there are grave problems that is why he does not want others to look...the evidence is voluminous google for and undending supply.

The problems are real...look if you have the time Google it and believe me you will not get through all the material that is reflected by the small sample that I have posted...plus think about my personal experience...real affidavits from real people day in day out...

Now that I am totally immobilized I have been looking into is the incidence of insest in Christian families....

seems that male christian sexual abusers with in the family use the dominance they gain from the various biblical passages treating females as inferior and in addition to citing how god did not see insest as wrong referencing various passages that prove that to be indeed the case ...and with biblical authority push themselves upon their victims.

There is plenty if you care to Google...so much that I have no fear that my words will be shown to be baseless.... real facts...

So Jan you have yet to convince us the material in what has been posted is flawed in any way and I would like to think now that your red herring tactic has been exposed folk will help you address the proposition that Christian men are more likely to commit domestic violence than others...don't worry about the insest conection to Christianity..yet...perhaps offer a comment as to why Christians have murdered more humans than any other group.?... you would not belong to the Nazi party...why?..their past, their history...and yet Christians with the worst past of all...yeh it's ok as it's a nice group at my church....hypocrite.

Alex

wegs · Jan 25, 2021

Jan Ardena said:
I’m not going round in circles. I’m showing that the idea that religion/Christianity is not the cause of men abusing women.
How come you’re not showing that? This is ultimately about belief in God. From an atheist perspective, if you believe in God, you are religious, if you are religious, you are okay with men abusing women. Do you see how it works?
That is where this is going. So it is important to show that atheists are completely wrong. All they want to do, is do away with religion, by any means necessary, despite not having clue about religion, or God.

Anyway I know Bells has an itchy trigger finger, and will most probably ban me.
So I want to say to you, if you believe in God, stand up for your belief. Or will find your belief growing weaker, till one day you might just decide to stop. I hope you don’t. Look deeply into any scripture you find, and gain more insight, and understanding.

I believe in God, and I also believe rape is wrong. Always. If you say that you believe rape is always wrong, no matter the circumstances, do you feel this somehow betrays your faith beliefs?

Bells · Jan 25, 2021

wegs said:
Agreed. I’m not sure what he’s on about with regards to adultery, marriage and rape. As if there’s a connection between all three, and that somehow is the motivating factor in rape cases. Rapists can be married. Rapists sometimes rape their own wives. Rapists don’t exclusively rape women - although it’s typically a crime perpetrated by a man. Rape is often a crime whereby the guy knows his victim; the perp isn’t always a stranger lurking in a back alley waiting. Perhaps we’re assuming too much in that most people know this.

By the biblical text, there isn't much difference between rape and adultery..

It's deemed sex outside of marriage.

Whether it's by force or not is beside the point depending on who owns the woman at the given time.

In Jan's mind, a man who is married and satisfied in his marriage, won't need to go out and have sex with other women, including raping other women.

For Jan, rape and sex outside of marriage are somewhat similar in that they both constitute sex outside of marriage, the use of force means that just the rapist gets to die.

So he's twisted himself into a tight little knot of defense and is attempting to parse thousands of years old text and applying a modern interpretation while telling us that "lay hold of" does not mean what his own definition is saying it means, while simultaneously telling us that we can't apply modern concepts to ancient religious text.

"Rape" to define sexual assault did not exist as a term when the men who wrote the bible, wrote the bible. So they used other terms. Which is what Jan is hung up on.

His queries about whether a man can rape his wife is equally telling and just as disturbing, in my opinion.

Jan Ardena said:
In that scenario, would she have consented, even though she really doesn’t want to have sex?
If she didn’t consent, would the man have his way anyway, or would he accept her decision?

Michael 345 · Jan 25, 2021

Xelasnave.1947 said:
I had a terrible fall and luckily only have a sprained wrist and three fingers sprained

Hope you heal faster than me

Xelasnave.1947 · Jan 25, 2021

Michael 345 said:
Hope you heal faster than me

I am tieing on a sort of a hook thingy both to prevent my fingers getting bumped and to have something to steady objects...just to open the milk you need a good hand and someway to stop the milk moving around.

At the moment I can't start the genny cause no way to steady it so no air con I am hoping the hook will be good enough. Lucky I changed to an automatic car.

I probably should go to the doctors and have him tape up the wrist and fingers better but there always are sick people there.

You look after yourself.
Alex

Michael 345 · Jan 25, 2021

Xelasnave.1947 said:
You look after yourself.

Inul just gone to Immigration Department to extend my visa. Took the photo of X-ray of shoulder and some of the bruses as explanation why I didn't go. Well she is my sponsor

So now good to 25 Feb

Xelasnave.1947 · Jan 25, 2021

Another turd in the pool..racism is higher with white Christians...just Google as I don't want to take focus off domestic violence and Christian men.
Alex

Jan Ardena · Jan 25, 2021

wegs said:
I believe in God, and I also believe rape is wrong. Always.

So do I.

wegs said:
If you say that you believe rape is always wrong, no matter the circumstances, do you feel this somehow betrays your faith beliefs?

No.
Rape is a terrible crime.
But to accuse religion of being the cause of rape, is wrong.
You said it yourself rape is about dominance and power, not necessarily about sexual gratification.
So where does religion or Christianity come into it. When you look at the Bible critically, it puts measures in place to not only prevent the act, but to eradicate the imbalance before it even enters the psyche.

Yes people may use those same texts to justify their actions, but that does not mean those texts justify those actions.

We can see the that folk here are not interested in the contextual meaning, they want the text to be in favour of “it’s okay to rape women”. Just like a rapist would want it to be. Why? Because it suits their purpose or agenda.

The whole idea of protecting women is a spiritual one. Because it is through women progeny is created. It doesn’t make sense to treat women in a harmful way.

Women today aren’t valued for that anymore. People generally don’t care about progeny, they are more interested in immediate family. Hence folks are carted off to homes by families, when they get old. Abortion factories are set up to kill unwanted children, all because the mother wanted to have sex, and I’m not talking about those women who became pregnant because they were raped. Just women/girls giving their consent.

Xelasnave.1947 · Jan 25, 2021

Jan Ardena said:
But to accuse religion of being the cause of rape,

I don't think that has been said Jan..please point to where you formed that opinion and we will see if we can fix it so what is being said is clear.

Jan Ardena said:
Yes people may use those same texts to justify their actions,

Well if it is in the bible you could expect men to hold it up as gospel..take out obnoxious texts then there would be not problem.

Jan Ardena said:
We can see the that folk here are not interested in the contextual meaning, they want the text to be in favour of “it’s okay to rape women”. Just like a rapist would want it to be. Why? Because it suits their purpose or agenda.

That is not the truth Jan.

Jan Ardena said:
It doesn’t make sense to treat women in a harmful way

Well explain the offending texts. They are there is it not reasonable to expect some men will seize upon them, as demonstrated in the material I provided.
Why not address the problems and fix them rather than ignoring them?
There is no decent morality to be found ignoring the problem and refusing to address it..would things be better or worse if the offending passages were removed?
Maybe Christian men would treat woman as an equal for a start..maybe we could have a female Pope.
Alex

Jan Ardena · Jan 25, 2021

billvon said:
Right. If you lay hold of a woman so she can't get away, so you can have sex with her, that's rape.

It is pretty scary that you don't get that.

If take hold of a woman and she enjoys the feeling of being held, and becomes sexually aroused and wants nothing more in that moment than to have sex with you, that’s not rape.

It’s pretty scary that your willing to accuse the man of rape. He can lose everything because of that false accusation. Why do you hate men so much?

Xelasnave.1947 · Jan 25, 2021

Jan Ardena said:
Did God command Moses “rape” the virgins?

Read your bible and see what it says.

Jan Ardena said:
Can you point out anywhere where Moses is commanded to “rape” virgins?
There is however references to the fundamental basis of rape, and that is “adultery”, which is an abomination to God.

You can’t have your cake, and eat it.

Just look at the big picture...killing everyone except the virgins who were distributed as property...seeking definitions will not minimise the horror will it...

Jan Ardena said:
Is capitol punishment murder?
Some may argue that it is, and some will say it isn’t.
One argument for why it could at least be murder, is that they may kill the wrong person, or an innocent person. Fair enough. But if the government killed a person who is actually a murderer. What then?

Please address the matter before us..the killing of everyone except the virgins...all your small talk is irrelevant...please address the matter at hand.

Jan Ardena said:
God cannot be wrong.
God knows everything.
You may not believe in God, but those are His attributes. If you don’t take them into account when you read the Bible, that is your problem.

OK so you are refusing to say Billvons story points to anything that is wrong.
,

Jan Ardena said:
Rape and murder is rampant today, because people are in darkness, due to anger (a negative emotion) because they don’t believe in God.

Do you want me to post the numbers of christians guilty ..higher than the rest..how about that.

Jan Ardena said:
Stalin alone has killed more that all casualties of religious wars combined.

Wrong...check your figures..Christians hold the record.

Jan Ardena said:
Shall I label you as a Stalinist, because he didn’t believe in God either.

No label me a Hitchinist...he says what I say about god...

Jan Ardena said:
Your is no different, so stop with the self-pity.

You are right of course.

Jan Ardena said:
“leaving this planet”. If you truly didn’t believe in the spirit-soul you would not have said that.

I believe in cleaning the floor so I will change it to "kick the bucket".

Jan Ardena said:
Maybe you are kind and respectful, but you haven’t been, here.

Maybe you are right.

Jan Ardena said:
It is written as a rule in that same chapte

Terrific..the book is Devine and as you said god can't be wrong and yet we have his book full of wrong stuff..does not add up does it...if an engineering book, or a chemistry book in fact any book ever printed contains mistakes it is edited and fixed...the bible definitely needs to be fixed...one can't respect a book that has passages treating women as inferior or how to manage your slaves..stealing a flood story and claiming that it really happened is wrong...believing or not believing has little to do with it...the thing is wrong ..it has been edited in the past edit it again and get rid of the really bad stuff... if it really was inspired by God he would say fix it as the current version is giving me a bad name.

Jan Ardena said:
No intelligent person disputes that.

I think you are wrong here...intelligent people want things to be correct factual etc...

Jan Ardena said:
If you have to make a law “thou shall not kill”, or thou shall not commit adultery”, it is because the the people of that land have forgotten why that is wrong.

If you wish to take the Mosses story as factual could you tell me what laws existed in Eygpt in relation to murder etc...like it is not really ground breaking when it comes to the commandments....

Jan Ardena said:
To just blame it on the Bible, Religion

I blame it for no more than it deserves..no more than it deserves.

Jan Ardena said:
There is so much you haven’t taken into account, that it renders your diatribe(s) meaningless.

Sure...but the fact remains irrespective of me not understanding whatever the bible has many passages that are wrong and hardley compatible with the Devine...themes the facts and you making appologises does not make anything right..in fact it just makes it more wrong....

Alex

Michael 345 · Jan 25, 2021

Xelasnave.1947 said:
playing the guitar.

Might enjoy this to cheer you up

Small musical interlude

Xelasnave.1947 · Jan 25, 2021

Jan I found out today that whales can be traced back at least to a small mammal the size of a rat which lived on eating insects.

Tonight I am tracing back past that small mammal ...right back to single cell creatures...I bet the bible can't show you interesting things like that...fancy a whale from a rat like creature...isn't science wonderful.

Do you know that it was not so long ago that theists believed whales were fish...there is an interesting English case dealing with tax on fish ...

It is amazing how far humans have come since science has been used to explain everything.

And also our access to history, and how astrology was used to invent all the human gods...just Sun worship in effect..I find it all extremely interesting....particularly evolution and abigenisis...once the only explanation was god and these days we are lucky to be able to read the truth on the net...
Do you know where the after life story was invented..again interesting how it got off the ground..at first only important people got a look in but due to popular demand the priveledge was extended until today anyone can have afterlife..or at least believe in it....

If it's there I am looking forward to it ...

Alex

Xelasnave.1947 · Jan 25, 2021

Michael 345 said:
Might enjoy this to cheer you up

Small musical interlude

Thanks for thinking of me. He is an excellent player...
Alex

Xelasnave.1947 · Jan 25, 2021

Talking of whales...what gives with the johna and the whale story..what was the moral?
Now that story is clearly so wrong and yet it's in the bible...why?

So Jan you can now avoid the real issues and talk about whales..now is it not kind of me to let you off the hook.

Alex

Jan Ardena · Jan 25, 2021

Read your bible and see what it says.

Respond to the question

Please address the matter before us..the killing of everyone except the virgins...all your small talk is irrelevant...please address the matter at hand.

I will after you respond to the question(s)

OK so you are refusing to say Billvons story points to anything that is wrong.

God cannot be wrong.
You realise this more quickly if you respond to the questions

Do you want me to post the numbers of christians guilty ..higher than the rest..how about that.

Show that they believe in God

I believe in cleaning the floor so I will change it to "kick the bucket".

That phrase has no correlation to death
Leaving the planet once the body is used up, does

Maybe you are right.

I am right

I blame it for no more than it deserves..no more than it deserves.

You hate because you hate God.

themes the facts and you making appologises does not make anything right..in fact it just makes it more wrong....

I don’t have to make apologies for the Bible. I just have to read it without hate and bias.

That is not the truth Jan.

It is the truth.
You want the Bible to approve of rape of women, so you can justify your hate.
You tried to accuse me of approving rape and murder, because of that anger and hate you harbour.
Like I said before, you’re an evil man.

Xelasnave.1947 · Jan 25, 2021

Jan Ardena said:
Respond to the question

I did I said to read your bible.

Jan Ardena said:
I will after you respond to the question(s)

No you won't and we both know why you refuse to answer.

Jan Ardena said:
You realise this more quickly if you respond to the questions

I do not believe there is a god so how could what you suggest work?

Jan Ardena said:
Show that they believe in God

But criminals ...how does that work?

Jan Ardena said:
That phrase has no correlation to death

But it does ..you need to get more experience in the world.

"To kick the bucket, to die." Useful advice if standing on a bucket - don't kick it. One theory, albeit with little evidence to support it, is that the phrase originates from the notion that people hanged themselves by standing on a bucket with a noose around their neck and then kicking the bucket away.

www.phrases.org.uk › meanings › k...
The phrase 'Kick the bucket' - meaning and origin. - The Phrase ...

Jan Ardena said:
Leaving the planet once the body is used up, does

Not to me and I am the one using it so it means what I says it means..Alice in Wonderland rules.

Jan Ardena said:
I am right

Maybe you are right....there is a first time for most things.

Jan Ardena said:
You hate because you hate God.

That is a lie.

I don't believe there is a god so how can I hate something I don't believe is real.

Jan Ardena said:
I don’t have to make apologies for the Bible

But you do...look how you pretzelacated yourself in this thread....why is that?

Jan Ardena said:
I just have to read it without hate and bias.

It's good that you follow my lead.

Jan Ardena said:
You tried to accuse me of approving rape and murder

Only because that seems to be what you are saying in respect of Billvons biblical story I certainly don't extend it past that...
You have yet to make a clear statement ...

Jan Ardena said:
Like I said before, you’re an evil man.

That is a funny thing to say about someone who tells the truth coming from someone who has been called out for lieing by many members on many occassions.

You made no comment upon the apparent fact that Christians have killed more humans than any other group...

Alex

Jan Ardena · Jan 25, 2021

Xelasnave.1947 said:
I did I said to read your bible.

That’s not a response to the question.
That is a deflection.
Why don’t you want to answer the question?

Xelasnave.1947 said:
No you won't and we both know why you refuse to answer.

At least you admit that you won’t answer the question.
Why don’t you answer the question?

Xelasnave.1947 said:
I do not believe there is a god so how could what you suggest work?

You won’t know until you answer the questions

Xelasnave.1947 said:
But criminals ...how does that work?

Can you show that they believe in God or not?
Another simple request

Xelasnave.1947 said:
Not to me and I am the one using it so it

You use it because it means something.

Xelasnave.1947 said:
That is a lie.
I don't believe there is a god so how can I hate something I don't believe is real.

If you don’t hate God, then you have nothing to fear in answering my questions.
What are you afraid of?

Xelasnave.1947 said:
It's good that you follow my lead.

You lie. You tried to accuse me of approving murder and rape. That’s evil.
And don’t think I wasn’t aware of your lies in getting me banned the last time

Xelasnave.1947 said:
Only because that seems to be what you are saying in respect of Billvons biblical story I certainly don't extend it past that...
You have yet to make a clear statement ...

If that were true, you would engage me in discussion before accusing me.
But you won’t because you’re an evil man who would have easily send an innocent person to jail, or their death, if you could. That’s why I regard you as evil.

Xelasnave.1947 said:
That is a funny thing to say about someone who tells the truth coming from someone who has been called out for lieing by many members on many occassions.

Nothing you say is credible with regards to the truth.

Xelasnave.1947 said:
You made no comment upon the apparent fact that Christians have killed more humans than any other group...

You are an evil, hateful man.
I’ve tried to be reasonable with you, overlook your two-faceness, and tried to engage you in discussions, and you continue with with your lies and folly.
It is clear you are afraid of real discussion.

billvon · Jan 25, 2021

Jan Ardena said:
If take hold of a woman and she enjoys the feeling of being held, and becomes sexually aroused and wants nothing more in that moment than to have sex with you, that’s not rape.

Your defense of rape is pretty scary.

It’s pretty scary that your willing to accuse the man of rape. He can lose everything because of that false accusation. Why do you hate men so much?

So if you saw a man grab a woman, hang onto her, force her to the ground and start tearing her clothes off, you'd just walk by? Because she must be enjoying it?

You are a sad wee example of a man.

Religion and women.

Bells

Xelasnave.1947

wegs

Matter and Pixie Dust

Bells

Michael 345

New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl

Xelasnave.1947

Michael 345

New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl

Xelasnave.1947

Jan Ardena

OM!!!

Xelasnave.1947

Jan Ardena

OM!!!

Xelasnave.1947

Michael 345

New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl

Xelasnave.1947

Xelasnave.1947

Xelasnave.1947

Jan Ardena

OM!!!

Xelasnave.1947

Jan Ardena

OM!!!

billvon