The Confederate Flag

That speech seems to confirm slavery was indeed an issue immediately prior to the war and I feel it is the only cherry I need pick to challenge the position Sculptor presents whatever that now is.
Moreover it is so telling about the danger religion poses in that it corrupts the morality of men convincing them they are entirely right when without religion they could only conclude they are entirely wrong.
That speech filled me with anger and I would like to walk behind that poor excuse for a man repeatedly kicking him in the arse whilst telling him he is an idiot because I find him so deserving of humiliation...and I expect, without looking to confirm my suspicion, that he would be one of the hero's flag bearers would look to with their ridiculous pride in all things confederate. Not even Jesus could love these pitiful folk.
Alex

 

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my opinions?
I suspect that you ain't got a clue

 

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I've only known one mule
but I liked him/her/it/they.....(whatever)

 

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I think it hits the nail on the head showing slaverly was an issue at the outset.
That's why Sculptor's gone into playful mode jabbering about others not knowing his opinions and funning with your ''mules'' twist.

 

for whom?

 

It does not matter..you raised concern that there was more to it than slavery and helped by pointing to a background relating to tax and later how the South wanted to go back on their deal but as I result I did research and learnt more so I thank you. However in so doing I must say that my opinion of the confederacy has gone right downhill even past where I had them parked earlier.
But I suppose given the bible endorses slavery and they are good religious folk they can't be blamed entirely.
Alex

 

I really can't help it if you refuse to comprehend what dehumanizing means. And it's clear you have no valid defense for doing it.

Seems you either don't know what dehumanizing means (no surprise there) or you're conflating it with demoralizing (not the same by far).

 

You could be right, well of course you are right, how silly of me to even for a moment to think otherwise. So these folk who find the confederate flag treasonist and racist are demoralised not dehumanized and I guess to you being demoralised is not a matter that needs to be addressed..got it.
And only being demoralised is their fault no doubt...they should just accept the flag is a symbol of Southern pride and not a flag central to white supremacists or the KKK even though it is.
There a batch of straw persons marching forward to expose the truth...or am I, like you often do, only imaging straw persons?
Alex

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Looking at the above image I think I now understand the idea of dehumanizing, they are certainly dehumanized in my book and I find it demoralizing to boot.
The confederate flag above the Stars and Stripes can't be good.
And check the little statues at the front... just think someone made them...what a joke.
But so much to be proud of...and of course the good book on the table..there no doubt to bring gods authority to support slave ownership.
Tell me..how do you feel actually seeing a photo of the dingbats you support...I dont expect you can answer.
Alex

 

You can't demoralize others. They can get demoralized as a response to their inability to confront something, but that's a function of them losing heart, not anyone taking anything from them. Morale is something you only lose when you lose confidence. But I would say that people who can muster protests certainly don't seem to be losing morale. So they don't even seem to be demoralized, much less anyone accepting what anyone else thinks about something like a flag.

Interesting you would post a picture that includes the US flag as an example of "a flag central to white supremacists or the KKK". See, through the guilt by association fallacy, people could come to believe any flag or symbol (just look at the "okay" hand gesture) might mean something nefarious. Your beliefs are on you. No one forced you to believe as you do.

 

Is that addressed to me? I don't support racism, nor your abiding ignorance.

 

I bet I can but of course I would not.

Yes so many battles can be won with a comment like " did you pay for that hair cut".

I will look at it this way..the display of the confederate flag is actually a good thing as it is a constant reminder of the fools that we would like to think do not exist.

I love it when I set a trap and come back to find it has worked.
Pointing out a fallacy can really work against you..you are smart enough to know how I could manage this and so I will say no more.

I suggest that we all believe, well not me as I come from a background of arguing for either side many times in each day, and so I see your point re belief, even belief in science despite protests it also comes down to some belief..if one is rational one must accept that it is only the expert in a particular field who really enjoys confidence but they too being human will fall victim to injecting belief failing to recognise that they really should not move past a position of confidence...if there is one thing I do believe however is that there is really no point in arguing against a belief, be it a belief that there is a god or that our current cosmology is perfect...things just "are" and finally any presentation is subjective..having said that I find a particular confidence in the scientific method but conceed it can present as final although it has moved past proper application.

Yes.

I should hope so.

Why would you even suggest otherwise.

I could ask of what matters you feel I display a genuine ignorance ..leaving my straw person out of it ...what could you suggest?

Ignorance is a quality that every human will have..I usually link ignorance to a specific..I think that is the way it should work..so one can not say as a generalisation that someone is ignorant but rather they are ignorant about a specific..for example I can't call Western theists just ignorant, can I, I need to qualify that with what they are ignorant of.. perhaps..they are ignorant as to the history prior to their gods invention..that sort of thing..to say I am ignorant you really could define what it is that I am ignorant upon..if I am ignorant how am I to know..not helpful to just say ignorant without saying exactly what it is that my ignorance pertains to..and if you make a list I will make it my business to become informed.
Well timed my park maker has arrived so I must go..nice reading your posts. Thank you.
Alex

 

If it looks like a duck, if it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck...........Near all your arguments, while thinly disguised, stink of racism.

 

Their morale only remains high because they know they have a fighting chance to get rid of those stupid flags and statues, not in spite of them.

 

If your morale is dependent upon restricting the freedoms of others, you're a fascist.

 

The freedom to own slaves, say?
The freedom to abuse black people?
One freedom that no one - no one here - has even suggested restricting is the freedom to make ridiculous claims about well-documented historical events. If someone wants to pretend that slavery was not the cause of the Civil War, that the Confederate battle flag is not a symbol of racial bigotry and the violent oppression of black people in the US, that the people who fly that flag and put bumper stickers of it on their vehicles and so forth are not racial bigots, and so forth, everyone here agrees that such idiocies are within their rights to proclaim.

Which brings us back to the thread topic: "intelligence on display". We all agree that the posters here have a right to display their intelligence, yes?

 

Slaves can do skilled labor quite easily - and much more cheaply than expensive skilled employees. The workmen who built the White House, Monticello, and Mount Vernon, would have had no trouble learning to operate bulldozers and oil drilling equipment.

Or invent such things.

US Steel was using local law enforcement to provide it with indentured labor - temporary slaves - into the 1960s. It was cheaper to train vagrants and criminals to do skilled work in the mills and mines than to hire at market rates.

The threat of slavery to the industrial workers of the North was real.

 

Below are sections (not the whole) of some declarations of a seceding state.
The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States.

From here

 

They should have turned the wheels left...?

Funny thing about that bible. The most ardent abolitionists were the most ardent Christians. Jews never got a look-in to American culture for another hundred years - and then only as stand-up comics; they sure never determined public policy. But when citing scripture, the southern "christians" always turn to the Old Testament - 'cos they know Jesus wouldn't approve.

 

what part of freedom requires us to glorify traitors?