The First Molecule that was Possible in the Universe has been Seen in Space

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by paddoboy, Apr 5, 2020.

  1. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    https://www.universetoday.com/14202...-universe-has-been-seen-in-space/#more-142022

    It takes a rich and diverse set of complex molecules for things like stars, galaxies, planets and lifeforms like us to exist. But before humans and all the complex molecules we’re made of could exist, there had to be that first primordial molecule that started a long chain of chemical events that led to everything you see around you today.

    Though it’s been long theorized to exist, the lack of observational evidence for that molecule was problematic for scientists. Now they’ve found it and those scientists can rest easy. Their predictive theory wins!

    In the very early days of the Universe, there were only two or three types of atoms. Hydrogen, helium, and tiny amounts of lithium were created by Big Bang Nucleosynthesis. All the other elements were forged later, in stars. Stars are mostly hydrogen, but stars couldn’t form from the simple hydrogen atoms created in the Big Bang. They form from what’s called molecular hydrogen. And molecular hydrogen couldn’t form without the so-called “first molecule,” a combination of helium and hydrogen called helium hydride. Theory says that helium hydride was created about 100,000 years after the Big Bang.

    “It was so exciting to be there, seeing helium hydride for the first time in the data.”

    more at link.....
     
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  3. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    This from where I'm sitting is incredible news, yet was first discovered in April last year, without any fanfare.
     
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  5. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    I believe that the universe had always been then in a single fiery moment it ended and began like a Phoenix, and now it will always be.
     
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  7. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    What you believe is your own personal problem.
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    And molecular hydrogen couldn’t form without the so-called “first molecule,” a combination of helium and hydrogen called helium hydride. Theory says that helium hydride was created about 100,000 years after the Big Bang.


    And proves there is no "irreducible complexity" .
     
  9. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    The issue seems to be that 2 H atoms in their ground state have great difficulty forming a hydrogen molecule, in the emptiness of space. To form a molecule, the activated reaction complex H-H* has to lose energy before it flies apart again (obviously the approaching atoms have enough energy, between them, to do this).

    In a gas at what we would think of as "normal" pressures, there are enough 3rd body molecules around to give a chance of taking away energy from the activated complex by collision with it, before it flies apart. But in interstellar space this is improbable, due to the highly tenuous nature of the gas. So the only way for the activated complex to lose energy is by emitting a photon before it flies apart again. This type of reaction process for forming molecules is known as "radiative association".

    With hydrogen, this can't happen (at least, not if both atoms are in the ground state), because QM forbids the emission of a photon in those circumstances (the symmetry is wrong). There is a rather technical paper on this here, of which the opening paragraph explains this point:https://www.researchgate.net/public...rmation_by_excited_atom_radiative_association

    However, the H-He⁺ molecular ion, which has the same number of electrons, in the same orbitals, as H2 (the only difference is one nucleus has a charge of +2, instead of them both having a charge of +1), does not suffer from this restriction, as it is a polar molecule and not symmetrical.

    So H + He⁺ -> H-He⁺ + hν is an allowed process.

    Once HHe+ is formed, it can react with an H atom:

    H + HHe⁺ -> H2 + He⁺.

    So HHe⁺ can catalyse the formation of H2 from H.

    At least, that is how I have understood it from what I have been able to dig up on the internet. Perhaps Janus or someone else knowledgeable can add to or correct this if necessary.

    (The article does not make clear it is talking about a molecular ion rather than a neutral molecule, but it must be since H-He is an impossible molecule.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2020

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