Where is most "gravity", inside or out?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by nebel, Feb 29, 2016.

  1. river

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    From something physical .

    Without the physical object , the field has no point of reference . The field would not exist without a physical core . The field emanates from a physical object .
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    river:

    I asked you a specific question: where does a bar magnet get the constant energy input you say it requires to maintain its magnetic field? Recall that mainstream physics says no such energy input is required, whereas you said "without an energy source [the magnetic field] would eventually die out".

    Your answer "from something physical" is a non-answer. You can either try again to answer the question, or drop your claim that bar magnets need constant energy input to maintain their magnetism. Which is it to be?
     
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  5. nebel

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  7. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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  8. nebel

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    EC: you are right, gravity is not excluively at the surface, but the area outside a body has higher detectable gravity, than the comparable inside. That is why bodies like Hygiea, pull into a globe. If gravity would be stronger toward the center, canyons would get deeper, just because the pull is so strong on their floors.
    You show me a surface, and outside I will show you the strongest detectable gravity. No wonder matter is pulled in at the periphery of the Solar system, masquerading as moved pressure force from the outside.
    ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 28 October 2019. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/10/191028164353.htm>.
     
  9. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    You betray your complete lack of understanding of physics, again, with your hilarious remark about gravity pulling on the floor of a canyon and thus deepening it.

    I'll just leave that one, for you and other readers to savour for a while.

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  10. nebel

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    ec, if you would have read the above post 565 with an unbiased mind. You'd have noticed, that I said in effect that a canyon floor on Hygiea ( the smallest spherical body recently discovered) would not be deepened by the reduced gravity nearer to the center. so,
    we left that one a while to encourage you to forgo ad hominem remarks and read hilarious remarks carefully, because they were deliberately written as such.
     
  11. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    OK, it's gone over your head apparently. Gravity can't pull on an absence of mass, which is what a canyon is.
     
  12. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I read what you wrote and I get what you're trying to say too.
    It's not a hard concept to grasp, it's just a silly one.

    You're rationalizing why your own misunderstandings of gravity don't work.

    Good. Drop them. They're "not even wrong".
     
  13. nebel

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    2,469
    Well, it is the absence of the mass over any Canyon, possibly on Hygiea, that causes gravity to be lower on it's floor, as compared to the top of the walls, and the urge of the higher gravity on the rim, the minor planet's surface, to smooth it out to a spherical shape. being made of rubble helps if you are a small body.
    Please refer to post 2. origin hit it right on. Acting gravity is lower at the interior, like a cave or a canyon floor. -- zero at the center . zero again only at infinite distance in the outside.
    disparaging remarks will only reflect on the maker.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
  14. nebel

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    Thank you dave, that is a double negative plus a confirmation.
    why, how, in this case of the Hygiea canyon?
    Rubble falling pulled by the higher surface gravity to the lower floor, with the lower level gravity there?
    The floor bulging from the sideway pressure created by the greater mass above the floor level?
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
  15. nebel

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    2,469
    Solar wind slows farther away from the Sun: Research could help predict when New Horizons spacecraft will cross the termination shock." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 2 December 2019. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/12/191202102033.htm> bold added
    which makes sense, because
    There is more gravity acting to infinity then to the center as felt from the Sun's surface
     
  16. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    I don't understand what you mean by "more gravity". How are you measuring the amount of gravity?
     
  17. nebel

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    To visualize my assertion, I will use origin's graph from post #2. He is dealing with an ideal globe of constant density, which gives clear views. Any variations in shape, or composition will only add, be modifications of this model.

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    Following the horizontal level at 1/4 g we can see that gravity (or warp of spacetime) as measured, occurs both @
    ~ .25 R in the interior and
    ~2 R outside the surface.
    That matching of the measured gravity effect will continue to zero in the center, but infinity in the outside. so,
    measuring gravity along any radius, will give greater readings for the outside from 1.75 R on, on any and all points to infinity. so:
    we have stronger gravity all the way out. now
    That stronger gravity above 1.75 R also acts over greater areas, on more, and all points we measure.
    The sphere at 2R has a 64 times greater area the one near the center at .25 R.
    On a solid sphere, only, at the surface are the inside and outside values for gravity equal in strength and in area .
    At the center at zero, and then measuring out to infinity on a radius, the difference in strength of gravity aver the surface it acts, is infinitely grand. so
    Outside is more gravity measured a) in strength, and "quantity" over b) a greater area, volume, on more points . and
    It is there whether we measure it or not. but if we do, there will be even more. gravity, by the mass of the instrument that is then added.
     
  18. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    12,451
    You have been told numerous times that you need to specify whether you are talking of the magnitude of the force of gravity (the acceleration given to an object of unit mass) or the gravitational potential, which is the integral of that over a chosen radial distance. It is meaningless to speak of "more gravity" unless you are clear which of these you mean. Gravity is not "stuff".

    This graph shows "g" i.e. acceleration, as a function of radius, so it is graph of force.

    The graph of potential is the upside down Mexican hat I provided at one point in the discussion.
     
  19. nebel

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    2,469
    Thank you for the reminder. since the OP there is the understanding that the "force" is under discussion here. In #575 the term "measured gravity" is used, to show that ana cting force is measured. The strength of gravity (the force it displays ) is given in ratios, in the origin,s graph. That is lacking in the wikipedia rendering.

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    I leave it to better minds to show wether there is more potential gravity inside the body or outside. the other question. It seems where the slope is steepest, the gravitational potential is greatest.
    As an example of the relevance of measuring the force of gravity
    from New Scientist mag
    We can't find any trace of cosmic dark matter – perhaps because our models of the early universe are missing a crucial piece, says astrophysicist Dan Hooper
    Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/articl...-could-mean-a-big-bang-rethink/#ixzz67jMu3TIn
    DMs existence hinges on our certainty that there is more gravity force acting out there, then there is apparent inside.
    "The presence of the elusive "Dark Matter" is inferred from the apparent measured force (resulting orbital velocities) it generates.
     
  20. nebel

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    2,469
    May be we should consider a unit of g force on the Earth surface x m^2. True, he force of gravity is not stuff, but from a body's mass surface it exists as a tension / pull toward the center, and you can measure only the "amount" that remains outward from your position.
    In the shell theorem, only the inside mass exercises or generates that tension, and that inside body's surface's size gives the "amount" by extension,
    The space between 2 such shells would contain a percentage of the total "amount" of gravity force available from the surface to infinity. From the volume of this shell would derive the "amount" of gravity/tension force present, ready to act.
     
  21. nebel

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    2,469
    In this alternative theory, the force of gravity is measured in 2 ways,
    a) In the strength at any given point as in origin's graph. post#2, showing zero force (spacetime warp) in the center and infinity, clearly more points of equal force from ~ 2R outward. but more interestingly:
    b) looking at a given strength acting over a surface of different shells, gXRxR, comparing sizes,
    From the surface on, in the inside, the force of g is declining linearly, which gives a descent to zero of the center in the inverse square mode for the accumulated points g-force.
    At 1/2 R there is only 1/4 of the accumulated gravity force measurable. whereas
    On the outside the total "amount" of the gravity force ( or spacetime tensioning) being at maximum outside the surface, remain constant to infinity!!! because
    while the strength of the gravity force diminishes with the inverse square, the surface of the shell hosting gravity increases with the square of R, so let it be resolved that :
    Surface gravity extends to infinity on the outside vs exponential decline through R at the inside.
    feed that into the DM calculations.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
  22. nebel

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    Here is a more drastic diagram showing how in total there is infinite gravity above the surface, and very little in comparison below.

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  23. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Impressive!

    Every body in the universe has infinite gravity - including Earth...
    I must have infinite strength to still be standing...
     

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