Is it wrong to have sex for fun, knowing it might possibly lead to an abortion?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by SetiAlpha6, Feb 12, 2019.

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  1. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    You'r a good man.!!!

    So to you... if thers no emotional or physical harm... any consensual sex between a man an wife is not a sin.???
     
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  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed there.
    OK. I feel similarly. Do you feel the same way about homosexuality, then? If two people of the same sex love each other, and are doing nothing to deliberately hurt the other, is that acceptable?
    Everyone can change and learn, no matter what their background.
     
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  5. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    "When my mother called me a queer, my face turned scarlet and I exploded. “Me? What are you talking about? Why would you even say a thing like that?” Then I ran down to my room, which was spotless, everything just so, the Gustav Klimt posters on the walls, the cornflower-blue vase I’d bought with the money I earned babysitting. The veil had been lifted..." David Sedaris "Calypso"
     
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  7. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    I... i...i...,(trembling) would think so... as long as no one else is harmed either, children, friends, etc.

    Am I a crazy person?
     
  8. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    I thank more than me... but im the sanest person i know of.!!!
     
  9. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Ok, good! I think?
     
  10. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    That would be their choice.

    It sounds beautiful.

    But I do not understand it exactly.

    So I actually do not know.

    What if they are openly using their lifestyle to encourage others to reject the God who died for them, and are selling that idea with the hope of converting others to atheism?

    Are they using their own freewill lifestyle choice to frame God as being evil?

    What then?

    I would not call that aspect of such a lifestyle good.

    Regardless of what I think, God is the perfect Judge of the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And He will correctly decide in every individual person’s life.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  11. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    So you'r not aganst homosexuals havin sex wit each other as long as they are what you consider to be good Christans.???
     
  12. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    I don’t know, it is a confusing thing for me. What do you think?
     
  13. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    You'r dead brother woud be proud of you.!!!
     
  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I don't either. I don't understand how (for example) a guy would be attracted to another guy, because I've never been attracted to guys.

    But that's just me, with my view on the world. There are plenty of other views/desires/orientations out there. And if I want to demand the right to live my life the way I want to, I have to give other people the right to live the way they want to.
    I imagine atheists do that. There's some intersection between gay people and atheists, but the more important issue is their atheism; that's a lot more germane to their views on religion than their sexual orientation. (And of course some gay people are actively driven away from religion by being told they are evil sinners all the time.)

    But if you have a gay woman trying to use her sexual orientation to say "look at me! According to God I'm a heathen sinner who deserves to die. If you don't think I deserve to die, maybe question your religion!" then that's her right - just as it's your right to post that you don't like homosexuality and that Jesus is the best thing ever. Neither is evil.
    Sure. Just as you can use your freewill lifestyle choice to try to frame Jesus as being great, and _other_ religions as being evil or misleading.
    OK then. There are about 15 million gay people in the US; I guess God correctly decided that they should all be gay.
     
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  15. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    I think the idea that it is an obligation rather than a pleasure is totally ass backwards. If I open a door for you, I do so because it pleases me to please you. It's not a contractual duty.
     
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    You can call it whatever you like. Social contracts are implicit agreements people make with each other to cooperate for social benefits, like protecting/aiding children or the weak, or keeping parks clean, or voting, or just generally not being a dick. You don't have to participate if you don't want to - but much of our society does depend on people cooperating.
     
  17. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    SetiAlpha6:

    Your God allows innocent people to be brutally murdered, every day, despite having the power to prevent it. You're telling me that you have no thoughts on God's morality regarding that, are you? That's an extreme example, but there are plenty of others.

    So you're neutral about the actions of brutal murders (to use the same example)? You won't say that what they did was morally wrong?

    We have to wait until the brutal murderers die before they can be judged? And in the meantime, as they go about the world killing innocent people ... what?

    Our bodies weren't designed. They evolved.

    But, for the sake of argument, let's accept your premise of a Grand Design for the human body and see where that takes us.

    Stick with sex, for starters. Do you think the mouth was designed for oral sex? Is oral sex a corruption of God's intended design? What about the penis? Was it designed to be masturbated? Is it a corruption of the design if you masturbate? Was the sexual act itself designed for procreation? Is it wrong to have sex for any other reason? Or does sex have a dual purpose? Is some pleasure allowed? If so, why is the pleasure of masturbation a no no? Or the pleasure that some get from anal sex?

    Moving on... is it a corruption of God's design to wear a hat on your head? Was the head intended for hats? Are hats an affront to God?

    What about gymnastics? It's not clear to me that the body was designed to take part in such perverted activities as balancing on beams or vaulting over objects, let alone swinging on evil parallel bars.

    How do you know what the "obvious, clear" design of our bodies is? Where do you get your information on correct and incorrect usage of the body?

    Now we get to your real objection. You find the idea of anal sex disgusting, and that's why you don't like it. I think all the religious clap trap is just a cover for your own distaste for the practice.

    So, here's the thing: I understand that you don't want to have anal sex. But why does that give you the right to tell other people what to do with their bodies? What harm are they doing to you? You won't catch any diseases, because you've already said you're not going to have anal sex. If it's a risk they want to take, who are you to stop them?

    Homosexuality has never killed anybody. AIDS is a disease and it is not only, or even primarily, contracted by homosexual people.

    You may as well argue that since influenza has killed millions, then being susceptible to catching the flu makes you an evil person who is going against God's designs for your body.

    I put no expectations on you. I am merely exploring your somewhat twisted ideas about morality. It's probably not your fault; it's your religion. I don't think you're necessarily a bad person.

    I am sorry about your loss. In matters like this, I prefer to tread lightly, so I won't directly discuss your brother with you unless you want me to.
     
  18. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Is that any worse that you openly using your lifestyle to encourage others to embrace your God, and selling that idea in the hope of converting others to your particular brand of Christianity? If so, why?

    Oh, you'll say, it's fine for you and not for them, because you're right and they are wrong about God. You only want the best for them, and it's best if everybody believes in your God.

    But what if you're wrong? What if the atheists only want the best for you - to break you out of a damaging mode of thought indoctrinated into you from childhood?

    A side note: if you look carefully, you'll see that most atheists are not asking anybody to convert to atheism, most of the time. What atheists are urging you to do is to make sure you have good reasons for believing what you believe. They are urging you to examine the foundations of your belief to see if there's good evidence that they are true. That's all.

    You're talking about atheists. Atheists don't believe in God. They have no need to frame God as being evil, because as far as they (we) are concerned, God probably isn't real. What is harmful to you is not God, but your beliefs surrounding that.

    But that's the problem right there!

    Why regardless of what you think? Why does your God tell you not to think? Why doesn't he allow you agency in your own life? Are you nothing more that God's puppet? And what about responsibility? If God decides everything for you, does that mean you're not responsible for anything you do? Will your actions only really count after you're dead? Does anything you do here in your time on this Earth matter, or do you consider your life just a waiting room before you get into God's Heaven?
     
  19. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Well, I'll be walking on egg shells for the rest of my life trying to avoid breaking the social contract. In the meantime, if I see you on the street, I might say hello--just because.
     
  20. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Really?

    Really? ! ! !

    Why then, are you constantly framing God as being evil, in your posts?

    I do already know your answer!

    But, go ahead and tell me, if you wish...
     
  21. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    James R,

    I love you but it would be exhausting to try and take down all of your straw men arguments, or to say no, and here is why, to all of them, and then wait for you to build yet another straw man to exhaust me with.

    I do not have to respond to all of them or even any of them unless they might be occasionally fun, like the last one.

    Hope you enjoyed it!
     
  22. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    James R,

    Judgment of His own creation is exclusively God’s ability and His right.

    Do you know of any occurrences of God’s wrath where His love for one was not the root cause of His judgment for another.

    Where one party abused another party, sometimes for centuries. And so He removed them from the earth. Basically because nothing else would protect the abused. Where the abusers, even an entire nation, would never repent, even after hundreds of years of sending warnings to them.

    As far as I understand, His wrath is always rooted in love. Seems strange, but appears to be accurate to me.

    Show me how I am wrong.

    And try and leave the straw men in the barn for me, please?

    Your heart is right on target!

    Your heart is very beautiful!!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    No, you won't. You'll just be a decent person; that's all you really need to do. (And perhaps observe local mores about privacy and personal space and things like that.)
    Me too.
     
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