Omniscient & omnipotent at the same time?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by fess, May 9, 2019.

  1. fess Registered Senior Member

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    Seems to me if you absolutely knew what the future is, you'd be unable to change it. If you subsequently change the future, you were initially wrong about it.
     
    candy and Michael 345 like this.
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  3. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    True enough, you just would set up the future that way in the first place but I think, in the religious sense, the idea was that God was everywhere (and therefore could see what you were doing) and he was all powerful (and could therefore undo anything that you had planned or done so doing even try).
     
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  5. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    What if Love was a circle? It was never ending. Forget our feeble brains, it's not about winning the lottery, it's about what we ultimately are? We'd know the entrance and we'd know the exit, does it matter what happens in between?
     
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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Why?

    Consider bring able to view the time dimension in the same way you view a spatial dimension.

    If I know where the other end of my yardstick is, does that mean I can't move that end to another place?

    You're thinking like a human, who can only ever see the near end of the yardstick.
     
  8. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, it's a version of the big stone conundrum.
    The Christians outsmarted themselves, elevating their deity out of their own reach.
     
  9. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Unless you already know you are within the future and know you are going to change it?

    A wriggle out?

    But I agree with your idea

    We don't know the future and if god does the future is done and dusted, what is point of asking God for anything since it's already pre ordained?

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  10. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    What if it's preordained that he cures your baby after your prayers?
     
  11. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Claim made gods will

    Pray God grandma lives

    Dies

    Claim made gods will

    Church wins 100% every time

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  12. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I'm sorry, that does not parse. Is Claim the name of a person?
     
  13. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    But, there's that pesky free will of humans that you're forgetting about.

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  14. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think a circle has an entrance and an exist doesn't it. That's kind of the concept of a circle. It's continuous.
     
  15. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    13,077
    (Your post)
    What if it's preordained that he cures your baby after yourprayers?
    (My post was just a continuation)
    Claim made gods will

    Pray God grandma lives

    Dies

    Claim made gods will

    Church wins 100% every time

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  16. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

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    Does the free will of puny humans override Gods knowledge of the future?

    To me, the concept of Omniscience doesn't include the future. God might know everything, but he doesn't know the future.
     
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  17. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Think of it more like a ferris wheel at an amusement park, and think of life as a ride. No matter how hard life is you have to remember it's just a ride and things will get better and sometimes worse but it constantly changes, similar to a roller coaster.
     
  18. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Be terrified going nowhere for a short time, then arrive at the starting point.
    Sounds about right.
     
  19. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Why would you be terrified?
     
  20. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    That's pretty much the point of carnival rides. Happens quite a lot in life, too.
     
  21. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    In my personal belief, no. God simply included free will as part of his plan. (imho)

    That’s interesting - why would he be limited to foreseeing future events, do you think?
     
  22. candy Valued Senior Member

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    I think it is that GOD knows all possible futures; each choice changes the possible outcomes. To calculate that volume of data you would have to be GOD.
     
  23. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Or there could be infinite realities where every possibility plays out.
     

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