What was Jesus like?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by davewhite04, Jan 18, 2019.

  1. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    How so?

    He cited a single example of Jesus saying he brought a sword. You can't infer from that that Kapyong was implying Jesus is violent a lot. But you can infer that Jesus had violent intent sometimes.
     
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  3. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    It is mentioned in the NT though,

    Hebrews 2:14 (KJV):

    "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same;
    that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;"

    In the last 100 years or so, it's been called the 'Christus Victor' theory of the atonement. It might have been the majority view among the early church fathers for the first thousand years of Christianity and something like it remains mainstream theology in Eastern Orthodoxy today.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christus_Victor

    https://www.theopedia.com/christus-victor
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
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  5. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    My understanding is that he is a son of God. How you choose to interpret that idea is yours.
     
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  7. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Violence against tables? He was resisting the Roman occupation and corruption of his religion. It looks like civil disobedience.
     
  8. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    "Jesus said he brought violence, not peace."

    "I have not come to bring peace, but a sword."

    Saying, "I have a dog, not a cat," is pretty clear, even if you only say it once.
     
  9. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    The point is is that was Jesus a pacifist? I think not.
     
  10. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    [QUOTE="Yazata, post: 3561161, member: 98441"
    that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;"[/QUOTE]

    I don't take Paul seriously and just stick with the gospels I'm not surprised he said it, but how can he be vanquished if he is spoken about in revelations?
     
  11. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Pacifism is the absence of war. not the absence of conflict.
     
  12. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Pacifism is opposition to war or violence of any kind.
     
  13. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    But a literal God absolutely is passive. Non-violence is the moral, happiness is the gem, equanimity is the sword of words.

    Would you agree the bible is conflicted on the topic of non-violence? Jesus defiantly offered non-resistance which is totally passive. Hate is the seven headed dragon who gives his power to a second beast called "No-Love" in revelation.
     
  14. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    Imo non-violence is opposed to violence. Being passive means one does not hate, but can rely of the assailants own suffering. All of hell will suffer and go to naught on its own all you need is to be passive to it.

    If there were no violence there wouldn't even be a non-violence... It would just be a no and it would go away too... To a passive mind.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
  15. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Faulty analogy.
     
  16. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Point out the fault(s).
     
  17. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Having a cat or a dog is a statement of fact.
    Saying 'I bring violence' is rhetoric.
    It isn't proof of factuality of the topic (being whether Jesus was factually violent).
     
  18. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Low levels of violence are permitted. Technically, a sit-in that requires police to move you encourages a form of violence. The civil rights march over the Edmund Pettus Bridge was going to result in violence, and the brave marchers suspected that ahead of time. They could have avoided violence if they wanted to.
     
  19. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    It seems to me the central contention of this thread revolves around this:

    Post 17 Jesus is the embodiment of pacifism
    Post 18 Jesus said the opposite: 'I bring not peace but a sword'
    Post 20 Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the den.
    Post 21 (18) is one act in a lifetime; you can't generalize it
    Post 27 look at all of the highlights of Jesus' life, the violent ones are a small minority. It's dishonest to characterize Him overall as violent.

    It seems to me that the error lies in the last half of (27): "It's dishonest to characterize Him overall as violent."

    AFAICT, no one did. Mostly, they're simply saying that (17) is not true.
     
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  20. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Whether or not Jesus was factually violent is not relevant. The discussion is about what He said.
     
  21. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Who says?
    That's not what I'm reading. I'm reading what was Jesus like?
     
  22. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    That's what I've been discussing. Maybe you're flailing at a strawman.

    My response to Kapyong in message #19 was, "Either you can't trust what He said or you can't take it too literally."
     
  23. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Mine is the thread topic. If anything, yours would be the straw man.

    OK. I'll grant that.
     

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