Standard brainwashed response. Humans give rise to humans, dogs to dogs, worms to worms etc. Show how it occurs any other way? While it may show that dogs and wolves are obviously related, it hasn’t shown that wolves came from a non wolf. What did the wolf evolve from to become a wolf? And more importantly. Can you demonstrate that it actually happened. That’s about as useful information, as drawing pictures of animals and drawing lines to connect them. No it doesn’t show, or explain evidence. Seems more like an exercise in indoctrination. Jan.
Stop lying. People infer and assert that fossils show such a change. There is no way to know that any such change occurred. Simple organism still require complex, specified, information. Specified Information, as far as you and I can tell, always comes from a mind. Are you saying intellect , and specified information, evolved out of natural processes? Devoid of a mindful, intelligent agency? But you’ve never seen one type organism change into a different type. I don’t mean the small adaptive changes I mentioned earlier, which we all accept. Something that cannot be disputed. Why? What are you suggesting? No it doesn’t. You’re simply asserting that it does. It is still a wolf. What did the candid evolve from? I think if that were the case, like the small adaptive changes within a population, it would not be disputed. As it happens, it’s not, and it is. Why do you think that is? Which predecessors? Humans were, are, and always will be humans, bilvon. Any other idea is just fantasy, bilvon. Jan.
This is the core of your argument. Yet you - ignore and dismiss mountains of evidence collected over centuries - do not offer an alternate explanation - do not support your own assertion with evidence. In short, your argument is not rational.
Oh Alex! They got to you. Sorry to see that man! Please accept my condolences. Sorry mate, but it doesn’t say that. I know you like to see things as you would prefer them to be, but it doesn’t make it real Do you understand the notion of logic? You atheists like to put yourselves on the side of logic, and science. But you deny and reject God. How is that in accordance with science or logic. Luckily you have to steal from the theist worldview to make sense of anything, so there is always hope. Plenty of your comrades have managed to come out of the darkness of atheism, only to realise what a weight had been lifted. Hope y Like what Alex? We look at the DNA molecule and now know that it is inscribed with complex, specified, information. Nothing appears to be built without it. We say information, specifically, specified information, comes from a mind. You think it just somehow happened to come together. Your way of looking at it is so improbable, it may as well be rendered impossible. Yet you cling to it, and go as far as to accept it, even though you know it is highly improbable. My way, is based on what is known. Not what is not known. It’s a fact that evolution occurs within populations, as a means of adaptation. But the fairytale you believe in is most def, not, and I suspect, cannot be shown to have occurred. It’s time to get a new idea, because we can clearly see the emporer is wearing no clothes. I see why you cling to this idea of faith. It is what you know. You have faith in the scientists who support your view. Why have you invested faith in it? Because it gives enough feeling of justification, as is necessary to keep you in denial. You seem to think that theists are so because of any book. But in saying that, the scriptures are integral for understanding the object of ones theism. As an atheist, while you can read any scripture, and form a relative understanding. You will be unable to make any real connection, because your mind is closed on account of your atheism. You need to listen to card-carrying atheists, who got themselves free of atheism, explain what occurred in their life to make the transition. Of course you will say there are Christians who became atheists. But when you ask them about their experience of God, and Christ, you realise they were never theists. They were religious. I know plenty of people who are Christians, but don’t know why they believe in God. Some rarely talk about God, referring only to Christian rhetoric. Something like your rhetoric regarding evolution. Theism is something distinct from our current understanding of religion. It occurs, in spite of religion. Religion is something we all do. It is how we live. In a theistic society,?the religion will be God-based. In an atheist society, it will be non-God based. I know enough about Darwinian evolution to know it is comparable to the story ‘The Emporers New Clothes’. That your only line of defence is to accuse me, or anyone else who disagrees with you, be they scientists, or great thinkers, shows you are being irrational. It time to WAKE UP! Another piece of typical atheist indoctrination. Any problems that occur with this Darwinian idea, where the adherent can’t justify his belief, and it is obvious that his belief is being torn apart at the seems. The atheist immediately cries fallacy. In this way the discussion becomes sidetracked. That’s not going to happen here. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Merry Christ-mas Alex. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Jan.
I bet the pope would disagree with you there Jan but have it your way but tell me were there more than 8 humans left after the mythical flood borrowed from an earlier book? Pity that you dont embrace that concept Jan. Have you started cellebrating xmas (x because we cant indentify a historical JC☺) early Jan as you write as if you are intoxicated. You say many things but just making stuff up does not make it fact. Thats why we rely on scientific research so we avoid just making stuff up. You can not show this dream you indulge to have any basis in reality. What makes you think that? What I have my own strawman that you attack...go ahead you rip that composite of your nonsence to bits meanwhile you miss the point. What we do know is JC was just another made up human god like so many others in ancient times who relied on the astrology of the time which personified the Sun. We know therefore JC was a myth and so we can only treat the new testament as a lie .... and clearly the old testament is a made up story that relies heavily upon previous stories from earlier times. That we know because that is what the evidence tells us. You cant deny those facts Jan. Well that is what all the evidence points to ... evolution makes its claims and backs those claims with evidence if you are to bring it down you need to address the evidence and show the evidence is somehow false...good luck with that...science does not care if it does not fit your fairey tale but only that it fits reality. So you are sunk Jan. What on Earth are you talking about Jan ...who is this naked emporer??? Do you mean JC on the cross??? Sorry but your clumbsy try to move your nonsence I reject. I do not employ faith, to me it is the tool of fools, what I employ is confidence which is proportioned in relation to the evidence. Faith is the opposite. You are wasting your time attacking the strawman Jan. Faith is for fools I dont use it and employ a level of confidence related to the weight of the evidence. The reason I have no confidence in the proposition that thete is no god is because the evidence for a god is just not there. The reason I am confident JC is a myth based in astrology is because the evidence is very strong that JC was just another human god personifying the Sun. The claim that JC was a fake is very strong so I have confidence that the new testament is simply based on a mafe up lie...what else can one conclude when we look at the evidence? I have experienced cabin crazy and fortunately was able to realise that I was crazy...you mistake delusion for reality as do so many other believers. You need to look for real things to believe are real and resist the strange imaginings that have no tie to reality. While you fight your strawman reality escapes you. JC was a myth. That is the simple fact history shows us. He was a mythical character like the rest of the made up human gods invented by astrologers to satisfy the superstitious Sun worshippers bent on personifying everything from animals to the stars. It history Jan and it wont go away. Er no. Science, atheism and football is not religion. It is so funny how theists try to call atheism religion. Even the opposite to religion must be a religion such is their craving to have the whole world follow their views...well no keep your religious views to your little world. ...other ideas are not just another religion. What is your obsession with this naked emporer. Accuse you of what? You need to look at what you wrote as like most of what you write it makes no sence. Perhaps start by telling us what your strawman is defending as I am not defending anything. Evolution does not need defending as it is established science and has nothing to fear from the unrealistic mutterings of folk basing the views on superstitions from the bronze age when they dud not know where the Sun went at night. Maybe but you are the one being conned and what is worse paying to be conned. Just imagine if you had all that cash you have shelled out. And the same to you Jan. Alex
Since energy nor matter has no intelligence Then where does the intelligence of any life form come from ?
Intelligence in an emergent property of a vast array of processing neurons. The more neurons, the better they can distinguish tree from leopard.
As I said: "about" is a vague term. It does not follow only living things can have intelligence. Naturally, as we begin to mimic vast networks of neurons, our sample set of intelligence will expand.
This is an ad hom. iceaura criticizes you on the things you say, here in this thread - which demonstrably indicate that you have not read up on evolution. "brainwashed" is an invalid response, as it does not address the arguments put forth. So what gave rise to humans then? In your non-evolutionary idea?
As I said, there are none yet. But we are getting better at neural networks that do the same thing as living brains (albeit much more primitive to-date).
[Quote="DaveC426913, post: 3556541, member: As I said, there are none yet. But we are getting better at neural networks that do the same thing as living brains (albeit much more primitive to-date).[/quote] Computers And this is for the betterment of ALL Humanity ? Our survival ? Yet to find any truth of what your saying Dave .
Thanks Jan. I feel guilty that I have put you to the trouble of trying to inform me about something that I was aware, but my reply I thought you could understand was driven by your cheap attempt to disregard evolution. Nevertheless I thank you for taking your time to post the link. The Theory of Evolution is well established and I am sure that if you simply informed yourself you could not argue against it although no doubt you would invent a connection to god and that The Theory of Evolution was part of his plan. I bet those believers who see it as part of gods plan not only accept the science but would praise god for being so intelligent. And perhaps the most interesting observation a rational person could make would be this... If by some remote chance The Theory of Evolution was found to be of no value or even totally rejected by the science community its absence does not establish that any god or gods are real... The Theory of Evolution stands without the need to reject any god as god is irrelevant in consideration of The Theory of Evolution...the burden of proof remains with those making the claim that a god or gods exist, a proof that after thousands of years has not been met. If you wish to use the Emporer has no clothes anology I suggest it is entirely applicable to christians ignoring the existence of multiple human gods of ancient times all with a similar MO to JC and all drawing upon astrology and the personification of the Sun to derive their falsely claimed god status. All these human gods were created to parrallel the Sun ... the death of JC on the cross is a direct and clear reference to the Sun "dieing" mid winter and appearing not to move North or South for three days ..then it is. . on the one hand resurrected, hence JC being raised after three days,... or this period seen as the birth date of the various human gods (of which JC is but one) ....and this birth date is heralded by "three kings" or "three wise men" following a star. This reference relates to the three stars in Orion (or as most call it the big dipper or downhere the shopping trolley) lining up with Sirius ( the brightest star) to point to where the Sun rises on the 25 th December (in the stars that form the cross☺)...the 12 followers these human gods often have is a reference to the 12 constellations thru which the Sun moves during the year. Yet you dont want to know because to inform yourself about such facts, as is the case, or if you informed yourself about evolution, would require a legitimate adjustment of your current beliefs. Change in religion cant happen and so you are stuck with bronze age superstition of no relevance in todays world. Why you dont want to find enlightement is beyond me and I can only reach for the most common reasons folk embrace the superstition that is religion. You must have an unreal fear of death so you want to believe death wont hurt and that life actually goes on in some curious form that has yet to be established. Perhaps you even believe your loving god has set aside a special eternal place where you will suffer forever if you fail to believe he is real. Your religion is the naked emporer. .. clothed in an accumulation of superstition pre dating the bronze age. In any event The Theory of Evolution is science and the notion of intelligent design is not. The body of work that is science is founded on peer reviewed papers observational evidence and strict demands for precise prediction whereas religion is to be cherry picked from an authorless ancient text not subject to challenge and that substitutes vague prophesy with some originating prophesy being found in dreams. No contest. But take all the science that believers fear eliminates their gods and the burden of proving that any god exists remains unproven as does the various claims as to what this mythical being plans and expects for humans. Perhaps the main thing to remember is that the universe is eternal and needs no creator to bring it into existence for it has always been and always will be... Have you totalled how much cash you have been conned out of...I bet you cant bring yourself to do the sums...tens? hundreds? thousands? millions?...millions? Just give it time. Alex
Darwin did that. How would you know? You refuse to acknowledge it. Yes, it has. That was the same as showing the relationship between dogs and wolves, essentially (that dogs came from wolves, rather than foxes or the like - which you called "obvious", remember?) One can provide huge piles of evidence and the requisite analysis, from at least four perspectives (fossil, genetic , taxonomic, and biological) - but that has already been done for you, many times. You have learned nothing. My guess is that until you have some basic comprehension of Darwinian evolution, you cannot follow the analysis or even recognize the evidence. It's like trying to explain a light bulb to someone who refuses to acknowledge the existence of electricity.
