state of the onion

Discussion in 'Politics' started by sculptor, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Right. And as I mentioned, it would be more accurate to say "just" a Trump supporter.
     
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  3. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    I suspect there's more to the KKK than supporting Trump.
    And not all Trump supporters being white supremacists.
     
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Percentage? It's over 85.
    Just noting the large tally of murder by white supremacy - in particular, since it's the easiest unarguable count, directly by white supremacists explicitly so motivated.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
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  7. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    What are we talking about here? Charlottesville or Philadelphia after the superbowl?
     
  8. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    That's true, but it's a fairly safe bet that most white supremacists are Trump supporters.
     
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Of course. But Trump support is a big factor in the resurgence of white supremacist groups in the US (and the rise in violence from white supremacists.) When KKK leaders praise Trump for his Islamophobic views, right wing extremists get a big boost - and right wing violence against innocent people rises.
    A surprising number of them are. 30% of strong Trump supporters either support white supremacy or are OK with it.
     
  10. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    But they do support them, even if they don't think of themselves as one. The difference in net effect is negligible.
     
  11. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Any source but your overactive imagination?
    So what is that tally?
    Below (taken from SPLC's records, confirmed by outside news accounts, and supplemented with additional research) is a list of 37 deadly attacks since Oklahoma City—comprising a total of 77 victims—carried out or believed to have been carried out by white extremists.
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...ers_killed_at_least_60_in_u_s_since_1995.html

    From 1980 to 2013, 262,000 black males were killed in America. By contrast, roughly 58,000 Americans died in Vietnam. In New Orleans, about 6,000 African American men have been murdered since 1980. The killers of these men were, in the vast majority of cases, other African American men.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/a-matter-of-black-lives/399386/

    Over the Labor Day weekend, Chicago hit that tragic number: 500 homicides.
    Nearly all of those killed were black men, shot to death in alleys and on street corners by other black men.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...frican-americans-glanton-20160907-column.html
    Really? The largely black riots and counter-protests to what had been laughable white-pride parades had nothing to do with the publicity and resurgence?
    Source?
    According to you.
     
  12. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    All Trump supporters are ok with it.
    Noting that resistant white racism (anything that actually denies or minimizes, for example, racial bias in police shootings and law enforcement in the US, or the underpinnings of the race riots in the US) and white supremacy support are identical, almost all Trump supporters are white supremacy supporters.
    My figure - 85% - draws from the statistics on the prevalence of ludicrous, reality denying beliefs about Obama that derive from his race. It underestimates, if anything, the support for white supremacy among Trump voters (because the remaining 15% also records intelligence and information - some white supremacists must be intelligent and informed, after all).
     
  13. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    So your 85% of Trump supporters being white supremacists is only based on various reactions to Obama you still haven't provided a source for?
    No source on your claim of what constitutes your "resistant white racism" either.
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    At least 77. Note that it doesn't even count police shootings, or incidents such as Trevor Martin's death.
    That argument here - use of that bolding in this context - is evidence of racism and evidence of support for white supremacy.
    Polling data, among the coagulating mass of overwhelmingly obvious turds floating in the punchline bowl that is our current American voting public.
    Example: https://www.publicpolicypolling.com...e-candidate-to-gop-clinton-leads-comfortably/
    "- - - 26% of Trump voters think President Obama was born in the United States - - - 9% think President Obama is a Christian - - "

    Now: do you have any source, data, or evidence showing that there exists a large fraction of Trump supporters who do not harbor a significant selection from the slate of standard white racist/supremacist falsehood beliefs, beginning with a selection from the ludicrous delusions about Obama, and including various nonsensical and racially structured beliefs about non-white immigrants and black people in the US?

    Because no great number of these people is visible, in the polling or in the public discourse. You need good evidence for the extraordinary claim that it exists.
     
  15. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    100% of Trump supporters support a white supremacist - Trump himself.
     
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Uh . . . no.

    There has been friction between black and white forever. What is new is a president who condones it. (And who condones violence against protesters.) That has an effect; it emboldens violent right wing extremists, like Nazis and white nationalists.
    From an ABC News/Washington Post poll:

    "There’s far more agreement on whether it’s acceptable or unacceptable to hold neo-Nazi or white supremacist views. . . .That leaves 70 percent of his strong supporters who call neo-Nazi or white supremacist views unacceptable, compared with 92 percent of his strong opponents"
     
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Labeling one's views and holding them are two different matters - especially in response to a pollster.

    There is no such thing as a strong Trump supporter who does not accept white supremacist views - from which countries are shitholes on down the line.
     
  18. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Oh right, the white supremacist Hispanic.
    Did you ever answer whether the millions in damage has stopped unjust verdicts or lack of prosecution in police shootings?
    Facts are racist?
    What, as long as they're killing their own, it's okay with you?
    And those have what to do with white supremacy?
    Or is it just any criticism of a black president, even by the opposing party?
    You haven't shown those beliefs to be especially white supremacist.
    Publicity, like "punch a nazi", doesn't do that?
     
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,635
    "I hate Illinois Nazis" - The Blues Brothers, 1980. (Followed by violence towards several Nazis.) Like I said, it's been going on a long time.

    I don't know if you are aware of this, but the US had a policy of actually killing Nazis for years, for good reasons. They got sort of a bad reputation. (At least, if you believe the leftist liberal elitist spin called "history.")
     
  20. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    Facts are employed by racists to make racist arguments. That was an example of a standard one, that we've all seen dozens of times. Cliché racism.
    So it's "they" and "their own" - on an anonymous discussion thread. Hello?
    Yep. If you check out the mother country, Spain, you can trace the history of that - or a bit of research on what happened to the actual official Nazis, and why, can inform.
    You don't know, do you.
    I rest my case.
    Don't need to. Meanwhile, there's something you do need to show - an extraordinary claim of yours without a hint of evidence so far. Remember?
     
  21. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Putting things in perspective is not racist. Blithely ignoring that many black deaths, seemingly only for political narrative, is racist.
    So you dishonestly say "our" and "our own" when you don't fit the demographic, just because internet anonymity allows you to get away with it?
    Using race as a facade for your own narrative? Sounds like racist tokenism. No wonder you don't really seem to care about black deaths.
    You think all Hispanics are from Spain?
    His mother was born in Peru and has some African ancestry through her Afro-Peruvian maternal grandfather.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Zimmerman#Background

    No, I don't know what goes on in your imagination.
    Lots of boogeymen?
    No, I don't. Remind me.
    A little hypocritical to demand though when you refuse?
     
  22. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Is that the bad thing about racists? I didn't think they killed too many people these days, they just dress up in suits and run for office. People in general are often violent to each other, and such behavior is exacerbated by conditions of poverty. It doesn't mean that somehow African-Americans aren't entitled to fairness in society and government.
     
  23. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    What, complete insensitivity to murders in the hundreds of thousands? Not THE worst thing about racists. Not a good thing either.
    Does poverty preclude morality or responsibility? In a country that has welfare and its poverty line is still richer than 80% of the world?
    Who said anyone isn't entitled to fairness?
     

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