UFOs (UAPs): Explanations?

Discussion in 'UFOs, Ghosts and Monsters' started by Magical Realist, Oct 10, 2017.

Page 42 of 469
  1. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,421
    James R, Jan 22, 2018
    #821

  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,421
    No. It's a ghost amoebe. I proved it!
     
    James R, Jan 22, 2018
    #822

  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Magical Realist

    Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,699
    Always nice to see the trolling ad hom posts are still flowing strong..

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    Magical Realist, Jan 22, 2018
    #823

  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. paddoboy

    paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,543
    Trolling??

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    One thing is fact MR ol son, people such as yourself and river,would not get a run on any other science forum, except this one for the reasons stated...I know that, you know that, river knows that, and James knows that. So obviously you are gonna make all the hay you can while the Sun is shining.
    ps Why not come over to SFN and try your garbage there?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    paddoboy, Jan 22, 2018
    #824
  8. Magical Realist

    Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,699
    I post regularly in Sci Village in the Weird forum on topics ranging from ghosts to ufos to bigfoot to esp. So obviously you don't know shit about what's out there. But keep trolling cuz that's about all you know how to do in these forums.
     
    Magical Realist, Jan 22, 2018
    #825
  9. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,421
    paddoboy:

    Do you dispute that we're seeing lens flare in the original UFO video? Do you have a better suggestion?

    I don't know what you mean by that. It sounds like a criticism of some kind.

    You don't have to be here, you know. You chose to read this thread. You chose to post in it.

    Why are you here?

    You're as bad as MR. Well, not quite as bad.

    You know that you can't just wave your hands and dismiss the video as "fucking nonsense". That's just what MR does when he waves his hands and says "Aliens!"

    Don't you find it even a little interesting to try to explain what we see in the video? And if you don't, again, why are you here? Did you come to preach an anti-UFO-nutter message?

    Yes.

    Which, in all probability, they will be if they are able to contact us, let alone come to Earth.

    Probably right, difficult to tell, and probably right.

    Inscrutible motives? Very shy? They like to keep us guessing? Admittedly, none of those options sounds very convincing.

    Good question.

    So the UFO believers tell us.

    Maybe they're just mean. Maybe we're too immature. Maybe Earth is quaranteened by the Intergalactic Federation until such time as we all grow up a bit.

    MR thinks he has them all positively identified. They are definitely aliens. Lens flare never happens.

    Could be fun...

    MR doesn't require extraordinary evidence. He just believes in the absence of evidence. He has faith, and a blind confidence in his fringey friends on the interwebs. It's kinda cute, when you think about it, in a way.

    I think lens flare is an interesting optical phenomenon, don't you?

    Yes.

    Point taken. Toddle along now.
     
    James R, Jan 22, 2018
    #826
  10. birch

    birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,077
    why would you assume they are benevolent? or that they aren't afraid of what we could do if they did give us their technology? what makes you think they would think we are trustworthy?

    the smart thing to do would be to observe us incognito and from what they observe, why would they want to?

    again, why would they desire to to give that type of data to violent beings that war among eachother? besides, if they are that advanced, what real interest would they have to even communicate?

    also, as another species from a totally different galaxy, they may view us as having nothing in common or just mere curiosities to study like plant life or insects or going on safari.

    besides, what would they need from us if they are advanced enough for interstellar travel? and considering that we are a violent species that is plundering our own planet and waging war, why would they see us as a species to be benevolent to? maybe they would view us not ready or not responsible enough or not evolved enough to share that knowledge to use it responsibly.

    maybe they would be afraid that we would use it against them, even if they were benevolent.
     
    birch, Jan 22, 2018
    #827
  11. birch

    birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,077
    what's illogical is how you whine that there is a lack of science but there is a whole section devoted to it but you keep insisting on posting in the fringe. if these topics are not of interest to you, then why do it?

    is MR going to the science section to harass you? then why do you post in fringe specifically to harass him?
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
    birch, Jan 22, 2018
    #828
  12. birch

    birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,077
    can't you read between the lines? it's a hobby/interest. just as paddoboy believes (based on probability) that there is other life out there, so does MR and he's keeping the faith alive. ufo hunting is a hobby interest for some. and one day, it may happen so it's not entirely without merit. this is why some people find it exciting and keep up-to-date on any sightings.

    so what if he believes that these are alien craft? unless they can be debunked for sure that they are not, you are both in faith mode, just on opposite sides of the spectrum. it's harmless. lol
     
    birch, Jan 22, 2018
    #829
  13. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,421
    birch,

    If they are like us, then to get to the interstellar stage they would, at the very least, have avoided blowing each other up with nuclear weapons, or committing similar acts of self-destruction. They would have had to learn to work cooperatively.

    On the other hand, they could be nothing at all like us. They could be a hive mind that wants to kill anything "other", by instinct. If that was the case, we'd have a problem. Then again, if that was the case, and they were already here, why haven't they killed us all already?

    If I was them, I wouldn't be handing out all the cool technology at once. I'd do it in dribs and drabs, with only low-level dangerous stuff initially accessible.

    Imagine you met an uncontacted tribe in the Amazon or something. Would you start by giving them the plans to build a nuclear bomb, or maybe start with a more benign technology transfer? Maybe show them velcro, or something.

    Do you think they'd need hundreds of years to just watch us? And why come all this way then just hang back and watch from a distance? Couldn't they do that sitting comfortably on Planet Alien?

    Intelligent life is likely to be very rare in the galaxy. It would be interesting, at the very least.

    True. It's possible.

    Nothing. In terms of resources and raw materials, we have nothing special to offer that they couldn't get elsewhere. On the other hand, our biological systems are probably unique.
     
    James R, Jan 22, 2018
    #830
  14. birch

    birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,077
    then evidently, those types of aliens are not here yet.

    you are assuming they don't need to travel to observe closely.

    yes, to study.

    that's only if they identify with us in some way as a species to feel some type of sympathy or empathy or if we are (supposing some humans) are evolved enough to be at least somehow on their level to even begin to do that. and then, it may simply be the same concept of why we want to know and reach out to other lifeforms we can communicate with: that we are not alone in this universe and further our understanding of it. but if they see us as insects or lower lifeforms, they will not care. pets or livestock, even worse. if they are too different, probably similar.

    they could be a dangerous enemy depending on 'which' and what 'type' and what 'level' of alien they are.

    a benevolent and highly evolved species similar to our biology would be the best bet.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
    birch, Jan 22, 2018
    #831
  15. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,421
    I think it's very likely there is other life out there, too. But that doesn't mean I have to imagine little green men visiting earth now, especially when there's no good evidence for that.

    Faith is belief in the absence of good evidence, so you're right. Faith that little green men are visiting is exactly what MR has. His problem is that he isn't very good at distinguishing his faith-based fantasy from reality. His ghosts and aliens are aliens-of-the-gaps; whenever he can't work out how it can be like that, then he concludes it must be the ghosts/aliens/monsters. In addition, he clings to his faith even in the face of overwhelming contrary real-world evidence. Look at his silly behaviour just in this thread, for example.

    Many of the sightings that MR coughs up here are decades old. The material he accesses is essentially random. I bet he just types "aliens" or "UFO" into youtube and watches whatever pops up, believing every word of it.

    So he's deluding himself, most likely, and wasting his time.

    No no NO!

    The default position is not "That light on the video is an alien spacecraft unless somebody can prove otherwise." The default position is "It would be extraordinary if that light on the video was an alien spacecraft. Therefore, we'll need quite extraordinary evidence to establish that fact (and the video on its own is very unlikely to cut the mustard)."

    If I tell you there's an invisible dragon in my garage, it's not up to you to debunk my claim. It's up to me to establish that my claim is true, to your satisfaction, at least if I expect you to believe it. You're not in "faith mode" just because you don't believe my wacky story about my pet dragon. You're being sensible and rational in being skeptical about my unlikely story.

    You know what? To a large extent, you're right when it comes to UFOs. Sure, the whole UFO flap is essentially a massive time waster, but if you don't mind wasting time and money (including taxpayer money) on such things then it is mostly harmless. There can be real harms in terms of mental health in some cases, such as where people come to believe they have been or are being kidnapped by aliens, and so on. They can end up living in unnecessary fear, just for starters.

    In the wider context, belief in UFOs correlates with belief in a lot of other pseudosciences and balony. And some of those other fringe beliefs can be truly dangerous. If you're a conspiracy theorist (as you're more likely to be if you believe in UFOs), then you're also more likely to believe that vaccinations are part of grand conspiracy and are harmful, for example. Therefore, you might choose not to vaccinate your children, for instance. That exposes them to serious illnesses, possibly death. So, you see, irrational beliefs are not always harmless.

    To take another example, if you believe in psychics who can tell the future, you're more likely to spend your hard-earned money consulting them for their dubious advice. That money could be spent instead on supporting your family, or on other things that will be ar more beneficial to you personally. You might fork over hundreds or thousands of dollars to a fraud based on your faith in psychic powers, then make significant and possibly harmful life choices based on their worthless advice.

    Take something like homeopathy. Suppose you are convinced that homeopathy (which is proven to be useless as medicine) can cure cancer. You might choose a homeopathic treatment regime over traditional, evidence-based medicine. As a result, you might actually die instead of recovering.

    When it comes to ghosts, and particularly when it comes to people who claim they can speak with the dead, there is also a lot of real harm. Again, if you pay a "medium" to contact the spirit of a dead loved one, you are wasting your money to receive some empty platitudes. Moreover, the belief that your loved one is not really "gone" but exists in some limbo on the "other side" can stop you from grieving properly and attaining a sense of closure and peace about the person's death, which is psychologically harmful to you in the long run.

    On an even wider stage, it is very important that the general public should learn how to tell science from bunk. The reason is that, all the time, we are surrounded by people who say that this or that is "scientifically proven" or "laboratory tested" or whatever. If you don't know how to think scientifically or critically, you're more likely to take such claims at face value, which make you gullible and vulnerable to being manipulated. The manipulators can be people trying to sell you stuff, or they might be politicians who want your vote, or somebody else.

    Bottom line: pseudoscience, such as the idea that aliens are visiting Earth, is not, in general, harmless. The harms are not always obvious, but they can be significant.
     
    James R, Jan 22, 2018
    #832
  16. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,421
    Curiouser and curiouser!

    I just noticed that this video also has the ghostly image of somebody's head hovering over the cars. It's quite faint, but you can see it a few times during the video. It's quite large. Now that can't be lens flare. It must therefore be a Real True Ghost! LOL.

    You ought to submit this to a ghost-hunters forum, MR. They'll love it!
     
    James R, Jan 22, 2018
    #833
  17. birch

    birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,077
    i meant that unless it can be unquestionably debunked, a person cannot say that it isn't alien spacecraft either.
    i disagree. for some, it can give them peace and closure to believe that they do still exist even if not with them. besides, no one knows if it's true or not. in fact, a lot of new-age ideology is very helpful and beneficial. this is because there are finer aspects (not concrete) to being a living being, rather than just an inanimate object and we must honor that to be healthy and whole.

    i understand what you are trying to say but your black/white stance on some of these interests can actually be harmful for people if they could not pursue other avenues. some homeopathy can be beneficial, for instance.
    that's a personal choice if they go that route or spend all their money. as for believing, there will always be those in society that don't and anyone can be aware of either argument. people believe in psychics because they choose to, not because they don't understand opposing views against such and considered superstition. besides, psychics do not predict the future at will but use some type of medium which some find beneficial. and like with any choice, you do your research in who you deal with just as the lawyer you pick or the doctor and if they are reputable and trustworthy etc. you may not see how they work but they can. it's metaphysical so, it's not going to jive with your scientific analysis.


    i agree with this and it is what scientists specialize in and should continue to do so. actually, it is fundamentally important. i am not discounting the importance of science and to constantly be aware of and in search of the truth.

    but at the same time, there are other type of minds who can be aware of or pursue different areas of life which do not pertain to scientific rigor because it can't be applied within the context exactly.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
    birch, Jan 22, 2018
    #834
  18. Michael 345

    Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,077
    And you thought that Darwin Australia was out of the cutting edge of Woo Woo

    Northern Territory Newspaper today 22 Jan 2018

    Teaser front page

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Article

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Editorial

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Someone like to find the strangest part of (in) the above?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    Michael 345, Jan 22, 2018
    #835
  19. James R

    James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,421
    Well, technically that's true. There might be only a 99% chance that it isn't an alien spacecraft, and a 1% chance that it is, I suppose.

    Also, think about what level of debunking somebody like MR would demand in order to say something was "unquestionably debunked"? Do you think he'd ever be satisfied that the UFO video we're talking about here has been "unquestionably debunked"? I think that, for him, the belief that "really it was an alien spaceship" would always remain.
     
    James R, Jan 22, 2018
    #836
  20. paddoboy

    paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,543
    And I thought this was the only science forum that did not require proper evidence for non mainstream subjects. Seems you know most of the questionable sites that cater to your nonsense...You are ahead of me on that front.

    No, I agree with you obviously. The problem is what you have glazed over and which I believe I made plain enough.....It's only one small issue and there are far bigger, more appropriate issues that support the fact that we have no evidence of ETL and certainly no extra ordinary evidence of them having visited Earth.
    Probably was and based on the evidence in this forum of you lowering yourself to call MR a fool [which he certainly is] and in the past [which you obviously would like to forget], you admonish me for calling another gullible, while you have also used that term with MR, and then claiming you meant different to what I did.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Seriously James, you are no where near even handed as you like to project and have people believe you are.
    Why am I here? Good question...Just thought I'd share a few moments with you and your biting criticism.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    No what is illogical is the fact that you ignore the fact that all sections come under the banner of science and need to be scientifically scrutinised via the scientific method. Let me state it in a famous quote...ExtraOrdinary Claims require Extraordinary evidence.
    We have nothing to support the claim that any Alien/s, have ever visited earth. All we have are examples of Unidentified Flying Objects!

    Bye, I must toddle off now!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
     
    paddoboy, Jan 22, 2018
    #837
  21. Magical Realist

    Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,699
    I can always tell when I've made my case here exceptionally well when other posters go off on me in one rambling post after another as some kind of inferior person or nutcase. It's the only weapon the defeated has left--ad homs and insults and making it personal. It's like a neurotic obsession for them. But as I always say, don't crucify the messenger if you can't refute his message. Just research the subject yourself like I did and be honest with yourself about what you find. You might be surprised:

    http://www.ufoevidence.org/
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
    Magical Realist, Jan 22, 2018
    #838
  22. paddoboy

    paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,543
    Just toddled back in.....
    [1] You have not made any case, except perhaps the case of being a fool as James said for ignoring all possibilities except your pet Aliens.
    They are UFO's MR my sweet! And in some isolated case/s could maybe be of Alien origin, but we don't know for sure. Your refusal to accept that supports James case.
     
    paddoboy, Jan 22, 2018
    #839
  23. birch

    birch Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,077
    it is probably rare in the entire universe, assuming the laws are uniform. this is because of the age of the universe, how specific conditions have to be in order for life to start, and how life starts from lesser to the highly evolved (generally). in this universe (assuming there may be a multiverse), higher evolved life is not a given and not the first choice of design either. we wouldn't even be here if the dinosaurs had not become extinct. also, the lengthy time it does take to evolve. hypothetically if the laws of the universe were reversed where the most highly evolved beings a universe could possibly produce was first choice of design, then there would be more likely interstellar travel or more abundantly.

    what is more interesting is if there is lifeforms so advanced that they could traverse space between universes to ours but they would be so advanced and so different (most likely), we may not even be able to recognize them as a lifeform.
     
    birch, Jan 22, 2018
    #840
Page 42 of 469

Share This Page