Hi I hope this is in the right section, its just that biology is wht made me think of it. Its a bit crazy too. :bugeye: OK so my theory is that conciseness, intelligence, and allthat goes along with it are a propity of a complex neurological network, e.g. the human brain. My base is that when you mix 2 or more atoms you get molecules, with new different properties than what the atoms had individually. If those molecules are amino acids, nucleotides, sugars you can make macromolecules of which new properties emerge that are not apparent in the monomers. molecules to organelles - new properties emerge organelles to cell - new properties emerge (life!) cells to tissue - new properties emerge tissue to organs - new properties emerge organs to systems - new properties emerge systems to organism - new properties emerge I believe that if you put a bunch of nuerons together thinking is just a property (to a degree) that is going to emerge, and in fact is not such a strange phenomena. Is that too far out? Anyway what are your ideas?
I don't think it's far out at all. I could definetly see something like that occuring. Nice thinking.
neuronal networks are analogous to the electrical circuitry on a chip. assuming consciousness being an emergent property of neuronal activity, it should also follow that a thermostat then has some level of consciousness
No, neuronal networks are not analogous to the electrical circuitry on a chip. They are a lot more complex: Each neuron in the brain have on average 40,000 inputs from other neurons and its synapse can terminate to just as many other neurons They are a lot more variable: The summation of all the inputs is an extremly variable amount; connections between neurons can be created, strenthened, weakened, and destroyed. This is built in part by a foundation of millions of inputs: light, sound, touch, chemical. The nerual network has a purpose for existing; it is a cog ticking in unison with the whole organism to keep it alive. Man made chips don't have this drive. The specifics of all this going on is impossible for me to fathom, but I do believe if an electrical network could be made to match a neural network intelligence will appear.
asserting one is more complex than the other does not make the comparison invalid. the characteristics you give the neurons could also be simulated on a chip. as for assuming purpose, thats just what it is, an assumption.
To take my comparison back to say.... atoms. When they become molecules will give them new properties, but only some will have the ability to create macromolecules. To follow this comparison only electrical circuits that follow a certain pattern will emerge with conciousness. I have no proof but I figure if most other things in the universe follow this pattern why wouldn't this?
Yes but you're only referring to the overall structure of the nueronal network.. dont ignore the details of synaptic structure. How many types of nuerotransmitters locks or whatever are on a single receptor or whatever? I think it's far more sophisticated than a chip. It's definately not digital. Regardless without further research as to the nature of the beast, analogies to typcial circuitry are somewhat eronoius.
For some reason this reminds me of The Tree of Knowledge by Humberto Maturana and Francisco Varela. Not even going to explain their thinking, since it took me a year just to regain my sanity. It does however involve looking at how systems become self-regulating and can have a type of conciseness. There are some pages listed at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0877736421/104-7836071-5974367?vi=glance
scenarios <li>Consciousness is independent of brain processes (spiritualist dualism). <li>Consciousness correlates with brain processes (naturalist dualism). <li>Consciousness is a set of brain processes (identity theory). <li>Human consciousness is a set of human brain processes (nonbiochauvinistic identity theory). <li>Consciousness supervenes on brain processes (functionalism). <li>Consciousness is caused by brain processes (epiphenomenalism). <li>Consciousness emerges from brain processes (emergentism).
You would defiantly be interested in reading about analog neural networks, they validate your theory rayzinnz
