That is a strange question. Given there is a total lack of evidence of God I think faith is the only thing that has folk believing in a God. One can believe any superstitious nonsence one likes, God, fairies, alien visitations, black magic, the existence of unicorns I have no problems in accepting many folk enjoy such delusional superstitious indulgence but it would be wonderful if they want to present their beliefs as fact that they offer something in support rather than take a high ground that their belief is fact. Jan must think talking about God somehow makes it real ... Well it does not no more than kids telling each other ghost stories makes ghosts real. Tiresome and merely a promotion of a Santa for adults. Without out faith God has no basis. I have faith that there is no God just a make believe entity with no more credibility than fairies or ghosts. So I am without God if that makes you happy Jan but I am also without fairies, ghosts and visiting aliens. I don't need to qualify myself as atheist but only as a rational undelussional thinking human. Alex
I don't know whether or not unicorns exist. I don't believe unicorns exist on this planet, but I wouldn't describe that as lacking belief, as to lack something is to be without or not have enough of something. It is a straight-up, I don't believe they exist. To be without something implies that thing exists but you are without it. Secondly, atheism is only affective in light of Theos/God, or theos/gods. Jan.
There isn't a total lack of evidence for God from a theist perspective, only an atheist one. You've no idea what would be evidence of God, so this kind of rhetoric is your own personal dig, based on nothing but an atheist comprehension of God. Which could be anything, as you have demonstrated. *yawn* Said by a person who is without God. I think it makes you happy. Bully for you. Jan.
Belief in God Various theistic positions can involve belief in a God or "gods". They include: Henotheism, worship of a single god despite recognition of other deities. Monotheism, belief in a single deity. Panentheism, belief in a deity that subsumes and transcends the universe. Pantheism, belief in a deity that is considered synonymous with the universe. Polytheism, belief in multiple deities. These positions are all contrasted by atheism, a lack of belief in deities. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief_in_God Above is why If your position is it not faith based please put me out of my misery and explain what is the base? Please Please PLEASE Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
So a thesist has some evidence from their perspective Sounds like we are in alternative facts country (Love that phrase) But as I read it a thesis evidence would not be accepted by non thesis as evidence Probably would not be accepted evan as alternative evidence Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I hope we are all happy Jan. Yes Bully for me. I am just so happy my mind was not corrupted as a child by well intentioned care givers who would have me believe superstitious nonsence which is irrelevant to understanding the world. I think it is unfortunate religion has not been shaken off and left in the past as an example of how humans made up nonsence to explain anything they did not understand. No doubt as we evolve and become more intelligent God will fade away just like ghosts and fairies. On the positive many Gods have faded away. Think of all the Gods many ancient cultures made up. Clearly as knowledge increases the need for Gods diminish. A time will come where even folk like Jan will be able to live out from under a cloud of superstition that they currently need to function. I recall the proof of God thread wherein opportunity was open for anyone to show substance to their superstition and although the thread was most entertaining failed absolutely to demonstrate God was anything more than a made up character invented by ancients without a clue. I do think the rule to follow would be not to kill others who do not believe as you do... Its a pity so many have died at the hands of those doing Gods work in their deluded minds. What would be interesting would be to observe another species on another planet and determine if they ever had religion in their culture. To ask them about their thoughts on God and have them look bewildered and reply...God? What is a God? Then try to explain how some humans have a God. Alex
No more than you being "without unicorns" implies that unicorns exist. Again, there are an infinite number of things in the universe one can be without, and it does not imply one iota that they actually exist. Which, by definition, makes you an a-unicornist, i.e. without unicorns. Why can't you just accept that you are not able to comprehend unicorns at this point in your evolution? See how preposterous that sounds? You hold a different standard for one set of things than you do for another set of things - regarding how you treat their existence, possible non-existence and belief or lack of - (the harsh term there would be hypocrite). You are unable to be objective about the issue, which makes your judgment unreliable in an objective debate. Make no mistake, it is perfectly all right to have your beliefs - but they can't be defended objectively, and are a liability in making your case to anyone else.
There is a lack of compelling objective evidence. There is, on the other hand, a preponderant body of evidence that our Standard Model and other models of nature do extremely well without "unnecessarily multiplying entities".
Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ? Is objective evidence - evidence which is objected to (your honour)? I object to the evidence your honour as it shows my client is guilty and I believe he is innocent so help me god Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
If you don't believe something exists then you lack belief that it does exist. This is inescapable logic. Your attempts to assert otherwise are laughable, and simply erroneous. Use English the way others do, Jan, rather than concoct your own version that renders sensible communication with you nigh on impossible. Maybe in your illogical world but not in reality. To lack something merely implies the something is at least a concept, but makes no implication as to the reality of that thing. If I can think of something I can say whether I lack it or not. Do you lack vanilla-flavoured giant domestic Martian fire-breathing hornets in your refrigerator? I would go so far as to claim that everyone lacks them precisely because they do not exist. So brush up on your English, Jan, please. No, atheism is the counter to theism, and theism is a belief / claim that Gods exist. Theism does not necessitate God being a reality. Theists believe God exists, atheists don't have that belief.
Yes Do you have any? Only make them chocolate flavoured Small Wild Venus Forget the fire Bees Haven't got any of those either I think you understand English well enough to understand what I mean Cheers Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Do theist think life exists elsewhere or does the bible exclude the possibility? Did God say after the flood if he had to do it again he would go for fire rather than flood? How does that fit with the Sun going red giant...on no it all fits. Anyways if there is no life elsewhere when we are toast real estate will be cheap. A universe with no life. Or will some go to heaven in battle stars and relocate. How long is a piece of string? Why is there something and not nothing if nothing does not exist. There is fluff in my navel. Alex
Lacking belief in God does not imply the atheist can realise God. To realise something is to comprehend it as a fact, and it is precisely because atheists don't comprehend God as a fact (i.e. don't realise God) that they lack belief. And it is this lack of belief that defines them as atheist. Now they can comprehend the notion of God that others consider to be a fact, but they lack belief that this notion is a fact. And those that believe God to be a fact are not the determiners of reality. Yet there is just one thing that defines all theists: belief in the existence of a god. Not really, when atheism is simply the lack of belief in the existence of a god. The other aspects of theism are irrelevant in this regard. What "other" are you talking about? I didn't mention "other" - so please clarify. No, it refers to someone who lacks belief in the existence of God. By definition these people will act, from moment to moment, as though there is no God. You would consider them "without God". But there are also non-atheists who act, from moment to moment, as though there is no God. There are people in this world who believe that God exists (i.e. non-atheist in the modern sense) yet give it no moment's thought. These people would also be considered, by you, as being "without God". You would consider them atheist, even though they have a belief in the existence of God. The original meaning may have been. But the meaning has changed. You need to deal with the modern meaning, not the archaic. Whether the modern meaning is a symptom or not, you need to stick to the modern meaning if you are to meaningfully discuss matters with those who use it in the modern sense. Your refusal to do so is simple obstinacy, and from after this post I shall simply ignore any argument stemming from your efforts to push the original meaning. I can not see the reasons you have given. Please simply direct me to the post(s) where they were given. This is not a trick or attempt at playing games, Jan. It is a request for you to either restate those reasons or simply link to where they were given. I will then be able to state any objections I have with them. No, Jan, it's simply highlighting your proclivity to use and redefine words in a non-standard way to suit your position rather than to be helpful to any ongoing actual discussion. The time wasting is in your usage of terms and readers' subsequent efforts to interpret. I am patently aware that it is a real position: it is the position where one lacks belief in the existence of god(s). It makes no such assumption. Others have already pointed this out to you, I see. But just to reiterate: belief in the non-existence of God does not imply that God exists. I lack belief in the existence of USD1,000,000 in my bank account. Oh, look, according to you I'm implying it exists. It states that there are people who lack belief in the existence of God. These people, by definition, will be "without God", but so will others who are not atheist, if they live their lives as though God does not exist (i.e. even if they believe God to exist they may believe that God has zero affect on their day-to-day lives). It's not a symptom of being an atheist, Jan, rather it is what defines an atheist: lack of belief in the existence of god(s). Deal with it. So God is simply an emotion? A subjective viewpoint? With no objective reality? Fair enough. If that's what you think. Then in future I expect you never to accuse atheists of simply refusing to acknowledge the existence of God, or imply that it is in any way a matter of choice. Somewhat of a chicken and egg, Jan, given that being without God is part and parcel of the lack of belief. You can assert that one is the cause of the other, but given that there are those who are without God who actually do believe in God, your assertion holds no water. Care to try again? It does apply to us. But it also applies to some non-atheists (modern usage). That's what you can't seem to get your head around, and so you simply blank it out. There being no God is not obvious to me. The existence or otherwise of God is unknown to me, and being unknown the answer can not be obvious. Ah, so now we're back to God being wholly subjective. Okay. Go beyond it to where? However I am quite capable of exploring other people's perspective. From yours, for example, that starts with the a priori assumption that God exists, then everything we see is positive evidence of that assumption, that God exists. And if God did not exist then nor would we. How am I doing? And you have the capacity to realise that God perhaps does not exist. Yes, bring out the case of one atheist who turned to God while he was in his dotage and which was based on personal incredulity at the possibility of ever explaining the origin of life. Is that all you have? Do you think that there aren't devoutly religious people who have subsequently rejected their belief in the existence of God? Please, don't insult people's intelligence by raising Flew as anything special. You are, whether you think you are or not. Nonsense - there are infinite things that don't exist that you lack belief in. I'm staggered that you would even consider raising such an argument. Ah, well.
You got that as well? On a more serious note ***** https://www.reference.com/world-view/total-number-religions-world-ff89ae17c6068514 According to some estimates, there are roughly 4,200 religions in the world. The word religion is sometimes used interchangeably with "faith" or "belief system", but religion differs from private belief in that it has a public aspect. ****"* Having looked at that 2 thought bubbles came into my brain 1/ how many flavours of atheist and I found this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism 2/ do many followers of the 4,200 religions when they arg oops discuss religions is it my god I believe in is the only one and the other 3,199 are all wrong or what does your religion have in common with mine? Any thoughts?
Yes I wonder what they do on other planets, presuming there could be a somewhat similar world, which may or may not be probable. Would they even have religion, art music maybe...I get sidetracked how they could be different but would they have a God or many or something entirely different. Why wonder I will make something up different but appealing something that gives hope and takes money for redistribution. I sometimes sit and think and try and comprehend the energy and stuff to build all the religious things in the world starting with the pyramids. The buildings the art, the troops,the sheer size of various religions. And of course there are those who believe all these things relate to a myth. Its all too much. Maybe I got off on there wrong planet. Why don't all these different religions all get together with the atheist s and discuss it and finally all agree there is no God. That's reasonable because I know that it is fact me who out of all is indeed right. My way is not only the best way it is my way. But what would you do with all those holy folk now out of work, those empty buildings and the masses of folk empty somehow. Alex
Oh god not another planet with another 4,200 religions Will it be hands and tentacles across the cosmos? Or..... never mind to rude Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Will they launch a crusade against us? Onward Blessed Ones Slithering off to war With the sink plug of holeness Going down before Bugeyed the faster Loading up the Poe Backwards out of prattle Observe its manners flow Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
All you need to do is compare the behavior of the religious right, after President Obama was elected, to the atheist left, after Trump was elected. When Obama was elected, the right may not have liked this, but it remained peaceful and cooperative. It battled peacefully though the ballot box. Which of the two has the strongest crusade? Atheism is a religion of left leaning mythologies, which clouds the mind and degenerates behavior. When Cathoic religion was the only show in town; 500 years ago, there were many closet atheists, who reached prominent positions of influence and importance in the church. One does no have to smoke cigarettes, to work for a cigarette company. This two faced group was often the negative influence behind many of the atrocities. The pedophile priests were 90+% gay. They were very far left and not practicing what the religion taught. They practiced something more progressive. The breakup of the Catholic church in the 1500's, and the differentiation of atheism, allowed atheism to leave the church and stand on its own Stalin, Hilter, etc. If there had been one church, such men like Hitler and Stalin, would use that as their platform for power. The same is true of the Muslim extremists. They are atheists in positions of power, in the one and only allowable church. The Muslims may need to decentralize to isolate them.
How would an encounter go if we found them intolerable..they eat their young and enjoy extreme cruelty in their criminal punishment by slowly torturing victims and finally eat them while they are alive...deeds we just can't accept. One wonders. Alex
