The Matrix Reloaded (spoilers are marked)

Well, this movie rocks. The cinematography is absolutely stunning. The story is brilliant. The philosophy behind it is mind-bending. The story takes a very significant turn in a very weird way. Something I didn't expect. Lots of great action scenes. The 15-minute car chase is AMAZING. This is definitely one of the better movies made.


SPOILER START---
What I don't like is how the Oracle turned out to be sort of like, evil. I also didn't like the ending. That "to be concluded" message was expected, but damn... They did cut it right off at a very critical point. And does anyone know why he suddenly had power in the real world to stop the machines?
---SPOILER END

 

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I agree for the most part. One thing I have come to believe is that
the movie will pull a "Thirteenth Floor" on us: how else would you
explain what Neo did ?

Oh, and the godlike Architect ? My favorite...

To Jerrek:

Okay, they're in another Matrix. I don't know how else Neo would
have done that EMP blast in the "real" world: thus, we are
treated to THE THIRTEENTH FLOOR all over again. If you haven't
already, see that movie and you will understand what I mean.
The godlike Architect stole the show: whether he is human or
machine is still debatable, however I gravitate towards human:
after all, wouldn't that be the ultimate form of power and of
controlling said Cause and Effect ? We'll find out on November
5th...

 

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I'm jealous as jealous can be, but I don't mind spoilers, please talk more about it!

 

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White spoilers are good ideas ! Thanks. I'll read it after the movie.
Lucky guys ! Matrix is shown this evening in Cannes (with the movie crew) but it will be avaible tomorrow in the whole country. I know that there is one "show" (don't found the english word) tonight so I will try to see it...

 

In the morning I'll post my thoughts on the movie, but I have a few comments/questions to pose..
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What the hell was with the huge mass orgy scene that was on screen for ages?Sure the music was sweet, but it had no bearing what-so-ever on the movie..

In the end when Morpheus and Neo areighting the Smiths in the hallway and one Smith is "becoming" Morpheus while others are holding him..now my eyes may not have payed close attention, but did Neo punch the Smiths away before Morpheus was completely taken over by a Smith, or do you think there might be a possibility of Morpheus now being under the control of a Smith, much like that one dude who jacked Zion all to hell by EMPing the base.
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More discussions:

With relation to the "orgy" thing, I have no idea. I found it rather amusing though that 90% of them are black.

Neo DID punch the agents away from Morpheus before he was taken over completely. That was when the Keymaker unlocked the door and they all flew out.

I don't think so. That would kill a lot of fans. I for one would HATE that concept.

Well, I finally got to the solution. I think. You need to watch the Animatrix for a more clearer understanding. As far as Neo's ability to control the machines in "reality". This was simply him becoming aware of Choice in it's true form. Rather than the form visualized for him by The Architect within the Matrix. His mind joined in awareness of choice, however his body could not hold the pressure, hence his current Coma.

 

great idea to mark the spoilers and write them in white, ingenious even.

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i haven't seen it yet, but i was wondering, if Neo is now the 'master' of the matrix, how gripping can the movie be? and is it VERY good?, because cnn gave it a bad review.

 

There is a lot of things not going for the matrix. :/ There is a sex scene which is just silly. There is a rave type party which was too long. There was a kiss scene which was totally not needed (you'll know what I'm talking about when you see it).

Other than some silly ideas that they incorporated into the movie, the movie is excellent. The movie doesn't take place ONLY in the Matrix... a lot of the movie is in Zion, the city outside of the Matrix. I wouldn't say Neo is the master of the Matrix... let us just say that they found a way to make the Matrix more ... interesting.

The movie also ends with more questions than it answers. There are some things which are NOT explained.

SPOILERS:
After talking to some other people, I think I'm swaying to the opinion that there is a matrix in a matrix. Why? Because some things did just happen: The bugs got to Zion at the SAME time as Neo entered the white room. He managed to stop the bugs with his mind OUTSIDE of the Matrix.

By putting the Matrix inside a Matrix you can then also say that the first matrix "allowed" people in the second one to wake up and then think of themselves as "free" while they are actually just in another matrix. Maybe Neo realized that? For example, when Agent Smith took over that other person, his consciousness was transferred to outside of the matrix. Now how could that happen unless it is inside another matrix or computer program?
--SPOILERS END

 

Excellent reviews for everyone. As for the kiss...I think there is more to it. I'm not sure what yet....

but I know there is more to it. She did something or something happened. She put on lipstick right before kissing him...which while i was watching the movie a female friend I was watching it with said "why would she do that right before kissing someone? girls dont do that." and THEN we heard the "code sound"...ya know that sound we hear whenever something "code" is happening like opening up a backdooor, or something. She has more to do with it...cant wait to see how.

As for the dance/orgy/sex scene. I agree it did seem superfluous..BUT from my experience, the Wachoski's are artists...if they want it they put it in...they dont care what ppl think. I think it kind of shows the very HUMAN part of Zion....while the machines just dig...and dig... perfect harmony and perfect order...the humans do "silly" things...things that make them human.


-AntonK

 

________________
That idea you proposed about the rave thingy is awesome. Holy crap, seriously. Very good symbolism and good call by you relating the two together.

The more and more I think about that scene where Neo kills the sentinels I tend to shift more towards what Jerrek was talking about in his reply to Solidus "His mind joined in awareness of choice." It would be a much better story line then if they were in another matrix. However, the Agent Smith traveling outside the matrix is going to be a great surprise in the 3rd move I think.
_______________________

Jerrek

______________________
I remember the keymaker opening the door and Neo flying with Morpheus. I was just making sure that the timing of Neo getting Smith off Morpheus was before Morpheus became a Smith, but I guess he did. Thanks.
_________________

 

Nothing but Spoilers (don't read if you haven't seen, PLEASE just see the movie first):

Here are some things I got from the movie:

1. When Smith talks about how some of Neo's coding got transferred when Neo went inside him and blew him up in the first movie, I think the code he is talking about is free will. Neo gave Smith free will. Choice. And that leads me to my second theory:

2. We all know The Matrix movies have a lot of influence from Christianity, among other religions. I think Smith is taking on the form of Lucifer. First the angels (God's, or the architect's, henchmen) are given free will, and then one chooses to revolt (Lucifer, or Smith) and attacks God and heaven (or the architect and his matrix). I think Smith will play a much larger role than any other bad guy in the third movie.

3. I loved it how the architect says he tried to 'force' humans to accept the matrix, but human's mental survival was based on choice, so the architect had to give humans a choice to accept the matrix, even if on a subconscious level. So this means 99% of humans chose to stay in the matrix. And as a result of humans needing choice, there is never a solid matrix, there will always be a loop hole. Choice. And so the matrix does it's best to control the choice made by making Neo chose a seemingly one sided decision. Emotion is human's weakness and the matrix exploits it. It's all a loop. In the first movie we hear of the prophecy being about a previous incarnation of The One who set the first of us free... probably 23 of them... 16 men and 7 women. We now know this wasn't the first time it's happened. And we know the One had just faced a choice. The same choice Neo faces. But Neo made a different choice. Because he loves one person in particular, not the general human race... Of course no one can claim to have not been at least a little confused by the architect's speech, so this is where my theory ends...

4. I think the oracle was bad in the first one. But Neo 'made a believer out of her' so she rebelled. That's why she was in hiding. She was one of the exiles. At one point she says "I don't believe in sides, I believe in the future. And we need to make a future together..." or something to that effect. So I think she's starting to believe that, even though there is no prophecy, Neo may still be the one... And on that note...

5. I LOVED how the prophecy was a lie. Another form of control. There is no prophecy, only program. The One is not the exception of the Matrix, it is the fundamental part... The One, Neo, is just another cog in the machine. The matrix has a role for him to play. And so far he is doing exactly what he was meant to do! I remember thinking at the end of the first movie "well if he's the one, then the rest of the movie is just fulfillment of the prophecy, and that's no fun..." but at the end of the second movie the future doesn't look so certain, at all... And now Morpheus looks like a Jehova's Witness...

6. I think they actually did a good job of implementing love in to the movie. They focus on the philosophy of love, that's the relevance of the kissing scene. To show you how love can distract you from your mission. Love is the thorn in everyone's sides. The humans and the machines. Love and free will. Because they are not cause and effect (or so we are led to believe in the movie). And as Smith puts it "there is no escaping reason".

7. If you think about it the machines vs humans has a sort of ying yang quality to it. Humans are fighting machines, and yet we can find human qualities in the machines (the oracle wanting peace, and the keymaker) and machine qualities in humans (logic, cause and effect, etc...) and we both depend on each other...

 

I snuck into Matrix Reloaded for free this afternoon... I liked it alright, but not nearly as much as the original. I haven't tried to read any philosophical shit into it yet like you guys, but I'm enjoying reading these posts and putting the pieces together! I'll go check it out again in a couple weeks, when all of this seems to make more sense to me.

 

I saw the movie yesterday : WOUAH !
That's really great, but I need to see it again. I understand the main ideas, the story and the philosophy, but I guess that there are lots of small things to see.

SPOILER

I don't know if there is a matrix in the matrix (It would look like eXistenZ...). Of course that's strange that Neo was able to destroy the sentinels but I don't think they are in a matrix... There is something else ! Maybe that he is not 100% human...

END OF SPOILER

 

Spoiler:

Even if he isn't human, in the real world wouldn't he have to abide by physical laws??

 

He did... but he used an electronic power. OR the sentinels were destroyed by something else (maybe the mainframe will) but I have to watch it again.

 

Ah, perhaps Neo now has a permanent connection with the Matrix and can manipulate it from the outside now as well...

 

It would be cool ! Good idea !

 

I had similar thoughts when trying to figure out how he killed the sentinels at the end. First, I admit the thought of them being in another matrix never crossed my mind, I'll think about that after this. When Neo killed Agent Smith, Smith took on a part of Neo, I think Neo also took back a piece of Agent Smith, particularly since Agent Smith is a part of the system, a part of Neo became a part of the system. Obviously at the climatic ending when he moved faster than possible, he grasped his own powers better than ever. He became able to control that part of himself that was a part of the system, and was therefore in touch with the EMP blast or whatever he did that was necessary in order to kill the Sentinels, who are also controlled by the system.

 

Thinking about this some more I believe more and more that Neo is not human. Notice that he also faints after EMPing the drones. It seems that he is just another exile program, for what purpose we still don't know.

 

I don't have the time or energy to get all into it right now, but...

I can't remember the last time I was so utterly disappointed in a movie as this.

Complete and total crap.

The story fell miles short of gripping, and barely held onto interesting.

The love story between Neo and Trinity was sappy bullshit.

There was so much superfluous crap in it.

The effects, although technically more impressive than the first one (for the most part) took away from the story rather than adding to it.

The action/fight scenes were uninspired at best. I found it impossible to get "into" the action scenes, because they were silly. It was like watching Superman fight a two year old. There was NO suspense at all. It was more like simply wondering HOW they were going to win, rather than IF. Without believeing that the "good guy" could get his ass beat, there is not emotional connection to the fight at all. Might as well watch Neo play a video game. I can't go much more into it without giving away stuff, but I will do another post in white some other time.

The first one was a great film with an excellent story, impressive dialogue AND they added spectaular special effects that added to the story.

In this one, they entirely relied upon special effects to carry the story and pick up the slack.
The mark of a shitty unimaginative Sci-Fi flick.

I LOVED the first one!!!

I am so disappointed at what they did to what could have been the ultimate Sci-Fi Trilogy!

It actually pissed me off it was so bad.

*sigh*