The Great 2016 Wildlife Refuge Insurrection

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Tiassa, Jan 7, 2016.

  1. Bells Staff Member

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    Some details have emerged of the harassment, stalking and intimidation tactics employed by out of State militia who have decided to descend on Burns for their personal cause.

    And how this is allowed to continue astounds me. People are afraid to leave their homes, some have left the area for a week or so, out of fear for their safety and that of their family. One teenage girl has taken to sleeping with a baseball bat after being followed one evening as she was heading home. One family of a police officer in the area had noted tire tracks entering their property and set up a camera and recorded various out of State vehicles idling in their driveway, sometimes for up to 40 minutes, watching the house. That family are now living in fear, with guns loaded and ready. The sheriff's elderly parents have been stalked and followed numerous times, as has a local pastor, who was vocal against the way in which the militia descended on the town. One Federal employee had to be evacuated from the town with a police escort after his employee file was accessed by the militia. His departure was so sudden that he barely had time to ask his neighbour to look after his cattle for him and the rancher took the cattle onto his own property for safe keeping.

    The tactics are the same when following people and idling outside people's homes for long periods of time.

    This is pure and outright harassment and intimidation and townsfolk are decidedly afraid. And who can blame them when armed thugs have even taken to accosting them when they are out and about shopping or running errands, to question them about about "their status as Federal employees".

    Especially with militants now advising they are setting up a court, *cough* Kangaroo Court *cough*:

    A self-proclaimed "U.S. Superior Court judge" who has been involved in past property rights protests in other states arrived Tuesday in Burns with plans to convene an extra-legal "citizens grand jury" that he said will review evidence that public officials may have committed crimes.

    Bruce Doucette, a 54-year-old owner of a computer design and repair shop in suburban Denver, told The Oregonian/OregonLive, that he made the trip at the request of Harney County residents. He said he met with the armed occupiers of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge to hear their evidence, which he called "significant," that government officials have committed crimes.

    But he declined to say which officials or which crimes they discussed and said a privately appointed "grand jury" of Harney County residents, not he as a self-appointed judge, would decide whether to charge anyone with a crime.

    "The grand jury will convene in private and make its decisions in private," Doucette said. "The role of a superior court judge is not very glorified. All we do is write up" what the local citizens decide, he said.

    Doucette's entry into the fray and claim to special Constitutional powers is the latest in a 11-day drama that has drawn a series of attention-seeking, Constitution-citing characters who say they can help Harney County residents solve their problems with federal restrictions on use of public lands.

    They are complaining about tyranny by imposing more dangerous and sinister tyranny and secret court hearings. This makes the questioning locals about their Federal employees and their status in their position of employ even more sinister.

    Onto lighter armed lunatic news..

    It seems the militants are somewhat pissed they aren't getting their snacks and what was on their shopping list:

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    Apparently they forgot to pack their underpants. And if they are using sleeping bags, why do they require queen size bed sheets and throw rugs? Really?

    Anywho, Jon Ritzheimer, of the 'Daddy swore an oath' video fame, has had a bit of a rant about what people have sent them..

    The self-styled patriots holed up in Burns sent out a plea for snacks and supplies, and America responded.

    But many of the care packages landing at the commandeered Malheur Wildlife Refuge headquarters aren't exactly giving aid and comfort to the armed anti-government protesters.

    Certainly, sex toys and a bag of gelatin ... ahem, male body parts weren't what they had in mind. (People: They sent out their wish list, which included the immediate need for French vanilla creamer, Miracle Whip and Menthol 100s.)

    Flabbergasted that many of his fellow citizens aren't busy cleaning their rifles, keeping their powder dry and praying the cause, Jon "Daddy Swore an Oath" Ritzheimer took to Facebook to register his displeasure at "an abundance of the hate mail."

    "Rather than going out and doing good, they just spend all their money on hate and hate and hate, and hate," Ritzheimer, wearing his signature purple-tinted sunglasses on his shaved head, laments in a video.

    He then angrily clears the table of the pile-up boxes containing sarcastic gifts and messages of ridicule directed at the armed occupiers. (This guy must be a real joy when he's losing at Monopoly.)

    After the brief display of aggression, Ritzheimer looks at the camera and declares: "We'll continue to do work and do good for our country."

    For the rest of "you patriots out there, still twiddling your thumbs, debating whether or not you want to come out," Ritzheimer passes on this message" "Now's the time, if you want to be part of history in the making."

    Hey, buddy, at least the government mail moving on government roads is still arriving on time in the frozen outback of eastern Oregon.



    Comments in youtube have been scathing. Deservedly so.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
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  3. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    (Insert Title Here)

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    Ladies and gentlemen, the Snack Club Uprising of 2016:

    Among the militant members who have accessed government computers at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, one is an Islamic State sympathizer and Adolph Hitler acolyte.

    (Sepulvado and Peacher↱)

    Imagine for a moment that you are a movie studio executive, and I bring you this sort of script. Would you really accept we could pull it off in any believable fashion?

    The Snacker in question is David Fry, allegedly of Ohio:

    The website he created contains video and audio of Fry at the refuge, as well as a “List of Serious Injustice” and a link to buy fellow militant LaVoy Finicum's mystery novel.

    ‡​

    Fry's Google+ account shows the Ohio man regularly posts anti-Semitic, homophobic, and pro-Nazi propaganda on social media.

    Fry also posts in support of ISIS.

    “ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS IS FOR ISIS TO NUKE ISRAELHELL!” he wrote on the site Nov. 30.

    When asked to explain his feelings about Israel and ISIS, Fry spoke at length of government conspiracies, plots against multiple countries, Sept. 11, court records, computer viruses on Japanese computers, Fukushima and a Jewish conspiracy against the free world that involves causing nuclear meltdowns.

    The twenty-first century pop culture axiom known as Poe's Law generally pertains to words written on the internet, but the inability to distinguish between parody and genuine expression does seem relevant. Without the Snack Club Uprising itself as living precedent, had a writer brought you a script depicting these sorts of characters, would you have green-lit? And if so, why? Do you think the audience would find the story believable? Or would it be viewed as hard satire, with conservatives and libertarians complaining about bigotry?

    Meanwhile, shortages of french vanilla creamer and clean underwear are apparently exacting some toll; tarp enthusiast LaVoy Finicum announced at yesterday's press conference that the Uprising will announce its exit plan on Friday. Amanda Peacher↱ of Oregon Public Broadcasting closed a report yesterday―

    [Harney County Judge Steve] Grasty said last week's school closure and county staff time associated with the refuge occupation cost between $60,000-$75,000 per day. That's not including the costs of more than 30 sheriffs' deputies from other counties working in Harney County.

    “I'd like to send Mr. Bundy a bill for the entire cost—everything I can identify,” Grasty said. “If for no other reason than to let the world know how expensive this was for taxpayers and this nation.”

    Part of those costs arose because leaders in Harney County shipped all of the inmates at the local jail to other facilities, so local deputies could focus on keeping residents safe.

    Grasty said he plans to eventually ask for federal and state assistance to help cover the additional costs.

    When asked about those costs to the county, occupier leader LaVoy Finicum pointed to what he sees as government overspending, more generally.

    ―almost as astoundingly as her article with John Sepulvado, about the Daa'ish sympathizer participating in the uprising, began.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Peacher, Amanda. "Militants Claim They'll Announce Exit Plan Friday". Oregon Public Broadcasting. 12 January 2016. OPB.org. 13 January 2016. http://bit.ly/1Zl5LUO

    Sepulvado, John and Amanda Peacher. "Militants Use Government Computers To Create Own Website". Oregon Public Broadcasting. 12 January 2016. OPB.org. 13 January 2016. http://bit.ly/1RNmq2N
     
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  5. Bells Staff Member

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    Who will think of the children?

    A militant leader on the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge told OPB his involvement in the occupation has resulted in the loss of his four foster children.

    Robert “LaVoy” Finicum and his wife Jeanette were foster care parents for troubled boys. Finicum estimates that over the past decade, more than 50 boys came through their ranch near Chino Valley, Arizona. The boys often landed there from mental hospitals, drug rehabs and group homes for emotionally distressed youth.

    “My ranch has been a great tool for these boys,” Finicum said. “It has done a lot of good.”

    Jeanette Finicum cared for the four children while her husband traveled between the refuge in southeastern Oregon and Utah, as part of a press tour in support of the militants’ occupation.

    Finicum said a social worker removed the last of his foster children from the ranch beginning Jan. 4, with the last child transferred out of his home on Jan. 9.

    “They didn’t go out at the same time,” Finicum said. “One was there for a year, one of the boys was there six months, another eight months, and a month. I don’t know where they ended up.”

    The removals coincided with Finicum’s involvement in the occupation of the refuge, outside of Burns. He blamed the removals on “pressure from the feds.”

    “They were ripped from my wife,” Finicum said. “We are very successful (foster parents). Our track records are good, it’s been a good relationship. (Federal authorities) must have gotten to the governor, who told the state to get them out of there.”

    Finicum said he is licensed and has a care contract with Catholic Charities Community Services in Arizona. While his license has not been revoked, Finicum said he would no longer receive referrals to care for foster children.

    Finicum, is of course, 'tarpman'.

    Now, most people would consider that they removed the children from his care because he has openly professed to being a lunatic who is willing to die in a blaze of glory by shooting at law enforcement and deliberately seeking to die in said glory because of his desire to overtake the Federal Government. Not to mention breaking the law, breaking an entering, threatening to kill people and taking part in a siege of a government building, destroying public property and inciting hatred. Then of course comes the fact that he has left the children in the care of his wife as he goes off to play wannabe military with his big guns in tow, in his bid to threaten to overtake the Federal Government..

    But no. According to Tarpman, the children were removed because of the dreaded 'feds'. The very 'feds' he wants to kill and overtake.

    One can but only imagine what kind of home Finicum ran for these boys on his ranch.. Especially when one considers what is really troubling Finicum about the removal of these boys from his care. Is it because he is actually concerned about their welfare?

    No. Oh no.

    That represents an enormous loss of income for the Finicums. According to a 2010 tax filing, Catholic Charities paid the family $115,343 to foster children in 2009. That year, foster parents were compensated between $22.31 and $37.49 per child, per day, meaning if the Finicums were paid at the maximum rate, they cared for, on average, eight children per day in 2009.

    “That was my main source of income,” Finicum said. “My ranch, well, the cows just cover the costs of the ranch. If this means rice and beans for the next few years, so be it. We’re going to stay the course.”

    Since then, Catholic Charities has increased payments for foster care significantly, but it does not itemize the dollar amount the Finicums were paid in subsequent years.

    Finicum is not angry about the loss of the boys themselves.

    His complaint is about the loss of income those boys represent.

    Welp..

    There goes his snack money..
     
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Flat-Earther

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    Holy shit.

    Since the exit strategy didn't really seem to materialize last week, some in the press appear to have stopped paying attention to the Snack Club Uprising in Oregon.

    Some.

    Of course, what, really, is anyone to do when trying to write articles about the Playtime Rebellion involves notions like this:

    The militiamen have partnered with a man named Bruce Doucette, a self-proclaimed “Superior Court Judge.” Doucette appointed himself a judge last May under the legal system that sovereign citizens use. He's intervened in local disputes before in Colorado, using his self-vested authority to try to order the arrest of a Colorado sheriff.

    He is also a conspiracy theorist. Doucette believes the earth is actually flat — “But if you go outside place a globe on the ground and pour water on it dose [sic] it stay on the globe ???” — and that both the Boston Marathon bombing and 9/11 attacks were hoaxes perpetrated by the government.


    (Pyke↱)

    Their playtime judge is an actual flat-earther.

    Last week↑, the fact of a Daa'ish supporter among the Snack Club's ranks was enough to compel me to ask what seems an obvious question: Without the Snack Club Uprising itself as living precedent, had a writer brought you a script depicting these sorts of characters, would you have green-lit?

    So in addition to the uprising itself, the snack call, the lack of clean underwear, the tarp sitting, and the Daa'ish supporter, we now have a fake court with an honest-to-God flat-earther pretending to be a judge.

    The occupation at the wildlife refuge is being spearheaded by a small group of people who support sovereign citizenship (and the Bundys have arguably become the most well-known faces of that movement). Individuals who identify as “sovereign citizens” believe they are not subject to the laws and orders of the United States government. In their view, the authority of local officials is moot if they follow those same government rules.

    Now, the occupiers want to install a “lawful county government and a lawful sheriff” and make Harney County “the first constitutional county in the land.”

    The militiamen have partnered with a man named Bruce Doucette, a self-proclaimed “Superior Court Judge.” Doucette appointed himself a judge last May under the legal system that sovereign citizens use. He's intervened in local disputes before in Colorado, using his self-vested authority to try to order the arrest of a Colorado sheriff ....

    .... The group appears to be planning to convene a 25-person “grand jury” to hear charges against the people who currently govern Harney County. Such a proceeding would likely revolve around both the criminal arson trial that put local ranchers Dwight and Steven Hammond in a California prison for the next four-plus years, but could also draw in other local grievances against duly appointed and elected officials whom anti-government radicals believe are illegitimate.

    A people's jury of this sort has no actual authority beyond the ideology — and guns — of the people serving on it. That's where the potential for violence comes in in Harney. Insofar as people like Doucette and the Bundys believe this “grand jury” would give them legitimate authority to go arrest people, it is a crackpot idea.

    There is an odd bit that comes up occasionally in the post-9/11 world; now and then a discussion will break down, and you might hear someone make the point that if Americans had to live like Palestinians, we'd be shooting, too.

    It's almost like these play pals want to be American Hizb'Allah.

    Hizb'Isa?

    Hizb'Moroni?

    Religious mission, hiding behind women and children, declaring their own law, support for international terror, demands to release criminals from prison. By the time they get around to open abductions?

    Well, we should wait and see if they actually take it that far.

    But, yeah. All that and a flat-earther, too.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Pyke, Alan. "The Crackpot Alternative Legal System That Threatens To Escalate The Oregon Standoff". Think Progress. 15 January 2016. ThinkProgress.org. 19 January 2016. http://bit.ly/1RxjWa8
     
  8. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    "This land is your land, this land is my land, from the..."
    ===============================================================
    "The armed activists occupying a national wildlife refuge in southeastern Oregon clashed with environmentalists Saturday as a standoff stretched into a 15th day.

    A shouting match erupted as members of the Center for Biological Diversity, a national nonprofit conservation group, tried to speak at a news briefing, The Oregonian reported. As the center's executive director Kieran Suckling began speaking, the armed activists screamed and booed him.

    "We're here to speak up for public land, which belongs to the public," Suckling said over the yelling. "These people are trying to take the land away."

    The armed group took over the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge to protest federal land use policies. So far, authorities have not tried to remove the group from refuge.

    The shouting match happened just after occupiers arrived for the briefing carrying a basket of security cameras they said they had removed at the request of residents, the newspaper reported.

    "This in my opinion is unreasonable search," said LaVoyce Sinicum, referencing the Fourth Amendment. He invited the FBI to pick up the cameras, which he claimed it had installed. He also condemned the government for harassing families.

    Suckling told the newspaper that his group had a more civil interaction with other occupiers afterward. He said it was important to be present and to not criticize the occupation from the sidelines.

    The occupation started Jan. 2 as a protest over two area ranchers who had been convicted of arson being returned to prison to serve longer sentences.

    Afterward, a group led by Ammon Bundy traveled to occupy the refuge to protest the ranchers' return to prison and demand that the 300-square-mile refuge be turned over to local control.

    The Bundys had planned a meeting with community members Friday night, but it was in limbo after county officials said they couldn't use the fairgrounds.

    Occupiers said they are looking for another venue and hoped to hold the meeting on Monday."

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/natio...story.html
     
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Last edited: Jan 19, 2016
  10. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Two-Bit Terrorists

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    "My wife would take these phone calls, it was terribly vulgar language. They said they were going to wrap my son in barbed wire and throw him down a well. They said they knew exactly which rooms my kids slept in, in Burns. There were death threats to my wife and two other staff members and their wives. My family went to Bend rather than be in the community because it was so volatile at the time. The families of my biologist and my deputy manager family had to relocate as well for a short time."


    The story most of us heard is that Dwight and Steve Hammond set a brush fire on the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, were improperly given a light sentence, and then recalled to serve their appropriate time. It is an interesting proposition; then a Texas prosecutor, Ted Cruz once hounded his way into federal court in order to keep a sentencing error in place, that a man should serve sixteen years for shoplifting a calculator. On the flip side, the state of Washington now faces a strange situation in which it is trying to recall hundreds of felons to finish serving their sentences, which were apparently bungled by software.

    It's almost funny how these things tend to cluster up.

    There is, of course, a backstory; Arun Gupta↱ explains for the Raw Story:

    More than 20 years ago the Hammonds also had a permit for grazing on the Malheur Wildlife Refuge. That was canceled in the mid-90s because of what officials say was the Hammonds' constant violation of the permit's terms. Today, the FWS is still caught in the middle because the Hammonds need to cross the 187,700 acres of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge to access the BLM land on which their cattle are allowed to graze.

    Marvin Plenert, 80, who served as Northwest regional director for the Fish and Wildlife Service from 1986 to 1994, says the agency tried to accommodate the Hammonds. "We gave them a day to cross through the refuge and they took two or three weeks to do it. They were in your face about everything. They kept pushing the envelope, cut fences, cattle wound up in the refuge illegally."

    Forrest Cameron, now retired, also served at Fish and Wildlife during the Hammond dispute, managing Malheur from 1989-99.

    Cameron says the conflict between the Hammonds and the Fish and Wildlife Service goes back to the 1980s when they leveled death threats against the previous refuge manager. Cameron says during his time "one way or another the Hammonds were violating their permit" for grazing cattle on refuge lands. He says it was an ongoing issue and, "They've done so many illegal activities that never got to a courtroom."

    "Some violations were not significant," says Cameron, "and we figured we could correct it by talking to them."

    The allegations include aerial hunting of coyotes on the refuge, deliberately wrecking creeks―

    Implementing the prescribed grazing practices led the Hammonds and Fish and Wildlife Service to butt heads in the early 1990s over the Bridge and Mud creeks and a watering hole for birds. Cameron says Hammonds' cattle would get into Bridge Creek, a deep canyon, "until someone drove them out." The cattle would devour woody plant species crucial to the ecosystem.

    With the loss of the anchoring trees, the banks started eroding. Cameron says the creek would "become like a drainage ditch and the water table in the meadows around the creek would start dropping." The effects rippled through the meadow, altering the entire species composition. Unable to reach water, grass would die off, sagebrush and other undesirable species would take root, and ground-nesting birds would lose breeding sites. He says, "Studies show 80 percent of the wildlife that lives in the Great Basin depends on a healthy riparian habitat, and that's what was along Bridge Creek."

    ―vandalizing and sabotaging heavy equipment in order to prevent repairs―

    In August 1994, the Fish and Wildlife Service tried to fence a waterhole used by the Hammonds cattle as well as by waterfowl. The family disabled a Caterpillar vehicle, blocking construction of the fence, and Dwight and Steve Hammond were arrested and charged with felonies for impeding, intimidating and interfering with federal officers.

    The charges were lessened and eventually dropped after the Hammonds entered into an agreement with provisions including a halt to interfering with fence construction and moving their cattle through the refuge in one day, which Cameron says is doable.

    ―and, ultimately, escalating to terrorism:

    Leading up to the 1994 incident were the death threats. Cameron says, "My wife would take these phone calls, it was terribly vulgar language. They said they were going to wrap my son in barbed wire and throw him down a well. They said they knew exactly which rooms my kids slept in, in Burns. There were death threats to my wife and two other staff members and their wives. My family went to Bend rather than be in the community because it was so volatile at the time. The families of my biologist and my deputy manager family had to relocate as well for a short time."

    "At the refuge headquarters, one of the Hammonds said they would tear my head off and shit down the hole. One of the Hammonds told my Deputy Manager, Dan Walsworth, they were going to 'put a chain around his neck and drag him behind a pickup.'" Cameron says it became practice "never to meet with the Hammonds alone and usually to have a law enforcement officer present."

    And this is what the Snack Club Uprising of 2016 pretends to honor.

    It is very nearly unfortunate to find ourselves wondering about the merit of such moronic virtue.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Gupta, Arun. "Oregon ranchers who sparked standoff threatened to wrap official's son in barbed wire and drown him". The Raw Story. 21 January 2016. RawStory.com. 25 January 2016. http://bit.ly/1Qxz9Xx
     
  11. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Cruelty

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    I did a very cruel thing today, sending along a video to a friend without proper warning up front.

    Then again, it is arguable that there is no such thing in this case as proper warning.

    Thus warned, click away.


    It is only proper to note that Kelly Gneiting is a champion American sumo wrestler, and has also achieved Guinness World Record status for being the heaviest person to ever finish the Los Angeles Marathon. Quite frankly, Chris Christie in a diaper never sounded like a good idea until now.

    As to the rest, I can't quite explain what you're seeing.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Gneiting, Kelly. "Gov. Chris Christie's Older Brother, Sumo Challenge". YouTube. 23 January 2016. YouTube.com. 26 January 2016. https://youtu.be/N8TTWujUGsU
     
  12. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Arrests in Oregon Standoff; One Insurgent Dead, One Wounded

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    Oregon Public Broadcasting↱ reports that five members of the Snack Club Uprising at Malheur National Wildlife Refuge have been arrested in an incident along US Route 395, between Burns and John Day, closing a fifty-six mile stretch of the highway during the subsequent investigation. Additionally, authorities have confirmed one insurgent is dead and another wounded, though names are not yet released.

    Officials have confirmed Ammon Bundy, Ryan C. Bundy, Brian Cavalier, Shawna Cox, and Ryan W. Payne, are under arrest.

    First rumors arose earlier this evening, apparently prompting Anthony Bosworth, of the Snack Club Uprising, to announce, "Ammon had a meeting in John Day. Somewhere along 395 there was a shooting. Nobody has confirmed Ammon was involved."

    Shortly after, an unnamed "friend" confirmed the arrest of Ammon Bundy. Shortly before 19:00 PST the Federal Bureau of Investigation and Oregon State Police confirmed the arrest of six individuals connected to the Malheur standoff arond 16:30 PST, and confirmed shots fired during the incident, as well as the death of one unnamed individual.

    There were apparently at least two arrest incidents related to the Snack Club Uprising today; Peter Santilli was arrested in Burns, as was Joseph Donald O'Shaughnessy. It is unclear if these latter were two separate incidents.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    OPB Staff. "FBI: Several Arrested, 1 Militant Dead In Malheur Occupation". Oregon Public Broadcasting. 26 January 2016. OPB.org. 26 January 2016. http://bit.ly/1QBjg2k
     
  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Robert "LaVoy" Finicum Reported Dead; Ryan Bundy Wounded

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    Via The Oregonian:

    Oregon standoff spokesman Robert "LaVoy" Finicum was killed and other top leaders of the wildlife refuge occupation were arrested Tuesday after law enforcement officials stopped vehicles about 15 miles north of Burns.

    Authorities did not release the name of the person who died at the highway stop, but two sources told The Oregonian/Oregonlive that it was Finicum, 55, of Cane Beds, Arizona, one of the cowboy-hat wearing faces of the takeover.

    State police later confirmed that troopers were involved in a shooting about 4:30 p.m. along U.S. 395 about 20 miles north of Burns.

    Ryan Bundy, 43, of Bunkerville, Nev., suffered a minor gunshot wound in the confrontation and was arrested.

    The bit with the tarp was ... really, it was something to see.

    Then again, maybe Mr. Finicum just really wanted to die.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Zaitz, Les. "Oregon standoff spokesman Robert 'LaVoy' Finicum killed, Bundys in custody after gunfight near Burns". The Oregonian. 26 January 2016. OPB.org. 26 January 2016. http://bit.ly/1TmLT4e
     
  14. rpenner Fully Wired Valued Senior Member

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    Via self-made streaming video and one-sided phone call we have soi-disant, cargo cult "reporter" Pete Santilli to Blaine Cooper at the occupied Vistor's Center, shortly after meeting with some police force:

    Pete: “Hello? Blaine, what’s the situation there?”
    XX: “Ecch. Blaine.”
    Pete: “OK, this is what I need to advise you, Blaine. Are you ready? Dude, you know I love you will all my heart, man. I know you know that, OK?”
    Pete: “Here’s what I want you to do. I want you to assume the leadership role, right now, OK. I just left the FBI compound and we are getting word: everyone, right now, is free to go. You’re free to go. And what I want you to do … I’m actually trying to, uh, to get up there, to get permission to go up there. But, I got word that Ammon is in custody. Is that true? Did you get word?”
    Pete: “OK, Ammon is in custody at this p…”
    XX: “Fox News reported four in custody.”
    Pete: “OK, Fox News, Fox News is reporting four in …”
    (Video skips)
    Pete: “Blaine, please, Blaine don’t, Blaine don’t, Blaine don’t do this, dude. Blaine, Blaine don’t, Blaine don’t, Blaine don’t do this, Blaine. Blaine, please, seriously, do you know, d’you know how many people love you, dude? Hunh? Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, don’t do this, Blaine.”
    Pete: “Blaine, Blaine, listen to me, can you do me a favor? Can you let me come up? I’ll get all the women and children out of there, please.”
    XX: “Get the women and children out of there, Blaine.”
    Pete: “Blaine, Blaine, Blaine!”
    (call terminates)
    Pete: “Oh my God.”
    XY: “What’s going on?”
    Pete: “Oh my God, Oh my God! Oh my God! Oh Fuck, man. I don’t even want to repeat what I just fucking heard. Arrgh!”
    (Video skips)
    XX: “Blaine, God damn it, auggh!”

     
  15. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Brief Notes

    Via Los Angeles Times:

    • Nevada Assemblywoman Michele Fiore said she heard from Ammon Bundy's wife that the insurgent leader claimed LaVoy Finicum was shot three times while his hands were raised. "The only saving grace," Fiore explained, "is there's six witnesses to it."

    • Arianna Finicum Brown, daughter of slain insurgent LaVoy Finicum, told The Oregonian, "He would never, ever want to hurt somebody, but he does believe in defending freedom, and he knew the risks involved".

    • As of a little over an hour ago, "Fiore's account of how the arrests occurred could not be confirmed with authorities, nor was it clear whether any protesters remained at the refuge".

    • Jon Ritzheimer is also in custody, having fled Oregon and turning himself in to police in Peoria, Arizona.

    • All arrested will face a federal felony charge, conspiracy to impede federal officers through use of force, intimidation, or threats.

    • Cliven Bundy, father of insurgent leaders Ammon and Ryan Bundy, said of the late Mr. Finicum, "all I can say is, he's sacrificed for a good purpose".​

    NBC News↱ offers other details:

    • Challice Finicum Finch, another daughter of slain insurgent LaVoy Finicum, told NBC News, "We all thought it would end, but not like this." She also explained that her father "did stress that they wouldn't pull a gun on them unless they pulled a gun. They were all committed to not firing on federal agents."

    • Pete Santilli and Joseph Donald O'Shaughnessy were arrested in separate incidents.

    • Shawna Cox, arrested in the deadly encounter, is a mother of twelve and grandmother of forty-three; her husband, Donald, told NBC News his wife "isn't a member of anything", but supported what she thought was a good cause. "She's a cowgirl," he said. "She's a patriot. This is all about her constitutional rights."​

    18 USC § 372↱ provides a maximum sentence of six years for the expected felony charge.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Johnson, Alex and Erin Calabrese. "One Dead as Oregon Occupation Leaders Ammon and Ryan Bundy Arrested". NBC News. 27 January 2016. NBCNews.com. 27 January 2016. http://nbcnews.to/1Vqt8Lx

    Pearce, Matt. "Oregon occupation spokesman reportedly killed, eight other protesters arrested". Los Angeles Times. 26 January 2016. LATimes.com. 27 January 2016. http://lat.ms/1SJpSgk

    United States Code. (n.d.) Law.Cornell.edu. 27 January 2016. http://bit.ly/1PiZSWO
     
  16. rpenner Fully Wired Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,833
    One of those six witnesses says that both vehicles were stopped, he was the first handcuffed as he was driver of one vehicle. LaVoy gunned the other vehicle, and sped towards the road block. LaVoy's vehicle got stuck in the snow at the roadside and with the wheels still spinning, LaVoy jumped out and charged law enforcement, who reacted within the expectations of the profession and fired guns actually hitting the person that they were aiming at.

    https://www.facebook.com/melvin.lee.733/videos/1094937237206125/ (Protected/Deleted Facebook page with vertical video)
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4x37bp1ugnuuhqj/MLEE--2016-01-27--WitnessReportOfFBIShooting.mp4?dl=1 (copy of above video) h/t L00Kit @ The Fogbow
    https://www.facebook.com/mark.mcconnell.127648/videos/10154667085229762/ (Facebook page with vertical video)

    In other news, the number of people remaining at the Visitor's Center seems to have dropped considerably as the FBI cuts off access.
     
  17. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,894
    Aye; I'm still catching up on the morning news; we're about forty-five minutes from the press conference, at which point the internet might explode.

    For the moment, I am diversely philosophical.

    Okay, "diversely" probably isn't the word.

    Randomly? Not quite right, either.

    • Michele Fiore ....

    • Obscure contradiction about firearms.

    • Still can't figure out how a white guy with a gun threatening to kill you is less of a threat to life and limb than an unarmed black guy walking away from you.

    • We Americans have cultivated this manner of stupidity.

    • Remember the bully in school who would try to pick a fight, and then say, "Alright, go ahead and throw the first punch"?

    • The tacitly accepted or believed that should not be spoken out loud in public.

    • Dehumanization: There were more than six witnesses.

    • Potential normalization of insurrectionist violence.​

    (sigh)
     
  18. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,894
    Snack Club Failure

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    The update, via Oregon Public Broadcasting:

    The FBI took three additional militants into custody Wednesday, as occupiers of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge began to trickle away from the site they have held for 26 days, and as the militants arrested Tuesday faced indictment in federal court. Police said Jason Patrick of Bonaire, Georgia was among those taken into custody. Patrick became the appointed leader of the remaining occupiers after Ammon Bundy was indicted, but he turned himself in at the FBI checkpoint outside the refuge

    Duane Leo Ehmer of Irrigon, the first Oregon resident to face charges since the standoff between occupiers and the FBI escalated earlier this week, also turned himself in at a checkpoint, as did Dylan Wade Anderson of Provo, Utah. Ehmer was often seen riding his horse at the refuge, an American flag in tow.

    All were in contact with law enforcement prior to their arrests, according to the FBI, which spent much of Wednesday in active negotiations aimed at bringing closure to the standoff outside Burns, Oregon.

    Another five occupiers were allowed to leave the refuge after they passed through law enforcement checkpoints. Law enforcement said that several cars were known to leave the area prior to the establishment of the FBI road closures.


    (Peacher, et al.↱)

    There are further updates; OPB has also learned the identities of the four failed insurgents remaining at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, and they are apparently attempting to negotiate their withdrawal:

    The remaining group includes David Fry of Blanchester, Ohio, husband and wife Sean and Sandy Anderson of Riggins, Idaho, and Jeff Banta of Elko, Nevada.

    (Templeton↱)

    The arrest of the Bundy brothers seems to have sent the Snack Club Uprising into chaos; Jason S. Patrick, appointed the new leader of the failing insurrection, walked out and surrendered yesterday, and with all of four militants remaining, they cannot seem to even stay on the same page as they try to organize their exit.

    "We all want to leave," pleaded Sandy Anderson. "We're here, and we're worried we're going to die."

    David Fry, however, explained, "As a group, we were willing to leave peacefully. But they want to arrest Sean [Anderson], and take Sean out, and put him in jail. We don't want to leave Sean in that situation, because that feels unfair."

    There is no word yet on whether federal officials have retorted by offering to arrest the lot of them.

    We ought to remember, though, that the conspiracy charges leveled against those arrested are actually light. Compare the six-year maximum sentence with the eight year maximum if we strip the word "conspiracy" (18 USC § 372) and simply charge them with impeding (18 USC § 111); if one uses a dangerous weapon in the course of that latter, the maximum escalates to twenty years.

    Whether one chooses to lionize LaVoy Finicum for courage or simply vulnerable and incompetent, the fact remains that the rest of this dangerous playtime insurrection are cowards. Or perhaps the lot of them ought to attempt a competency defense, though I'm not certain the colloquial proposition that they are delusional would hold up under appropriate scrutiny. That is, we might say they're crazy, but are they officially, medically crazy?
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Peacher, Amanda, et al. "More Arrests As FBI Negotiates With Remaining Militans". Oregon Public Broadcasting. 27 January 2016. OPB.org. 28 January 2016. http://bit.ly/1KdkY8T

    Templeton, Amelia. "4 Remaining Militants Tell OPB They Are Ready To Leave Refuge". Oregon Public Broadcasting. 28 January 2016. OPB.org. 28 January 2016. http://bit.ly/1SMs07j
     
  19. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,894
    Details

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    The Washington Post describes certain details from an FBI affidavit, including this particular bit:

    The day the occupation of the wildlife refuge began, the affidavit stated, an agent with the Bureau of Land Management said he was told by a county sheriff’s officer that the group in control of the refuge “had explosives, night vision goggles, and weapons and that if they didn’t get the fight they wanted out there they would bring the fight to town.”

    (Wolf and Berman↱)

    It also took me a while to find this, and it's bugging me that Sheriff Ward's statement from yesterday's press briefing has been so hard to find; via NBC News↱:

    The affidavit reports that on Oct. 5, 2015, Payne and Ammon Bundy visited Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward to warn him that there would be "extreme civil unrest" if Dwight Hammond, 73, and his son Steven, 46 — who set fires that spread to government lands they leased to graze cattle — were allowed to go free.

    In January, the Hammonds disassociated themselves from the occupiers.

    That meeting appears to have been what Ward was referring to in a news conference Wednesday, when he said the suspects "had ultimatums that I couldn't meet. I'm here to uphold the law."

    I hadn't picked up this detail until the news conference, or else it just got lost in the shuffle of all the information coming through.

    Meanwhile, KCEN↱, the NBC affiliate in Waco, Texas, offered a glimpse into the nature of the insrugents' outlook:

    One of them, Jason Patrick, said Wednesday he has been speaking with an FBI negotiator during the night who told him "they just want to get everybody off the refuge."

    "It's hard to decide what to do," he said in a phone interview. Patrick called Finicum's death "disheartening" and described the incident at the roadblock as a "violent and coercive force."

    Patrick said from inside the compound, where he was cooking eggs Wednesday morning, he could see a number of law enforcement officers in a convoy of armored vehicles.

    "Sounds like the definition of peaceful resolution is either forcefully kidnapping me or death," he said. "A peaceful resolution is not dead people."

    One wonders if they might believe the government has no power to arrest anyone.

    There is a word I've been reserving for specific reasons of political correctness owing to a very specific coincidence that probably ought not be tampered with.

    There is another word we've generally dropped from our lexicon for the unfairness of using it as a pejorative. In this case, I think it might apply in a more diagnostic context: Are these people retarded?

    Seriously, it sounds like their socialization and object relations are actually stunted, impaired, underdeveloped―retarded.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Johnson, Alex and Joe Fryer. "Oregon Occupation: Ammon Bundy Asks Supporters to Abandon Refuge". NBC News. 28 January 2016. NBCNews.com. 28 January 2016. http://nbcnews.to/1QIzEhx

    KCEN. "Sheriff to Oregon Protest Holdouts: 'There Doesn't Have to be Bloodshed'". 27 January 2016. KCENTV.com. 28 January 2016. http://bit.ly/1OT3cGQ

    Wolf, Carissa and Mark Berman. "Small Oregon refuge occupation lingers as group’s leader asks remaining people to leave without using force". The Washington Post. 28 January 2016. WashingtonPost.com. 28 January 2016. http://wapo.st/1SeBNmL
     
  20. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,270
    It needs to be said, there is video of Finicum's death. It is widely available in the news. But I won't be posting it. Nor will I be linking to it.

    As much as we might have laughed at 'tarp man', there is no laughing at watching him die. This is a tragedy. He wanted to die and he wanted the police to kill him. In the end, despite the time they gave him, he chose to go out this way.

    To wit, the stories from his fellow militants, that he died on his knees, with his hands up, are false. He was shot and killed after he came out of his car, after crashing it trying to ram through the snow past a road block, with his hands up. Then he went for his gun. And even as he was reaching for his gun, they still gave him time. Until in the end, they had no choice. So they shot and killed him when it became clear he was trying to get his gun out to shoot and kill them.

    I don't know why he put his arms up when he came out of his SUV. Perhaps it was to throw them off, make them think he was surrendering. Perhaps that is why one of the officers came out from behind a car, and was out in the open with him. And then he put both arms down and then went for his own gun in his pocket. The video is clear. It shows his movements clearly. And they still gave him time. It wasn't until he kept reaching for his gun and he turned around in the process, that he was shot. And yes, he was armed and there was a gun in the pocket he had his hand in.

    It wasn't a blaze of gun fire. They gave him time. A lot of time. And he chose to die this way.

    I wondered at first why they released the video. And it is confronting video. There is no sound. Which I think makes it even more confronting.

    Ryan Bundy, for his part, came out of the SUV with his hands up and he threw the gun he had in his hands in the snow. There were several guns in the SUV.

    Finicum wanted to die and he wanted FBI to kill him. In the end, it was a local police officer who shot him when they were left with no choice. It was a matter of either them or Finicum and his fellow militants. Finicum chose to commit suicide by having someone shoot him.

    Reading right wing websites where this is reported, the comments section of these sites is full of people saying how they are getting ready. How this is the tipping point for them. Whether they will believe this video, remains to be seen. I can understand why they released the footage. Perhaps it was to show that Finicum was not surrendering when he died. He wasn't murdered, while on his knees with his hands up in surrender. It wasn't cold blooded murder. He was intending to shoot at them. And while we can laugh at the loonies on these sites who come out with such things, there is an element of 'dear lord they could be serious' about this. Because we just watched someone do what they are saying they are getting ready to.

    There is no telling at the mentality that drives this and how far they are going to be willing to go.
     
  21. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,894
    Oh, Yeah, This Is Still Going On

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    The Snack Club Uprising is slated to end sometime soon↱, but that outcome might now be in doubt; Cliven Bundy arrived in Oregon last night to see his sons, so authorities helped make that happen by arresting the Nevada rancher.

    Nevada Assemblywoman Michele Fiore is now negotiating with federal officials on behalf of the insurgents.

    This morning, evangelist Franklin Graham posted via social media that he hoped to be in Oregon today to take part in negotiations.

    YouTuber Gavin Seim is also involved in some proximal fashion, helping Fiore remind the militants to pray.

    Cliven Bundy told OPB earlier in the week that he planned to come to Portland to bring attention to his two sons being held in jail, but didn’t want to publicize the date he planned to arrive.

    Bundy also told OPB that he planned on driving to Oregon.

    “He doesn’t like to fly, and I don’t like to fly,” said Carol Bundy. “We’re land lovers. And every time we fly, we both get stopped, so he won’t go.”

    But a call Wednesday afternoon from a close friend prompted Bundy to change his mind, which ultimately led to his arrest.

    Nevada State Assemblywoman Michele Fiore – a close friend and confidant of Cliven and Ammon Bundy – convinced the rancher to leave with her on a Spirit Airlines flight that would land in Portland just after 6 p.m. Wednesday. Fiore had organized a gathering of sympathetic state lawmakers, and wanted Bundy to attend.

    “He was going to help Michele,” said Carol Bundy. “He thought it would help Ryan and Ammon.”


    (Sepulvado, Haas, and Wilson↱)

    I almost can't wait for the miniseries. There is no way to contain this all in a movie, and it will be exactly terrible viewing, but the upside is there isn't enough carnage here for Michael Bay to want a piece of it.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Parks, Bradley W. "Occupiers Say They Will Surrender To FBI Thursday". Oregon Public Broadcasting. 10 February 2016. OPB.org. 11 February 2016. http://bit.ly/1ouGpZk

    Sepulvado, John, Ryan Haas, and Conrad Wilson. "Hoping To Help Free Sons, Cliven Bundy Joins Them In Jail". Oregon Public Broadcasting. 11 February 2016. OPB.org. 11 February 2016. http://bit.ly/1XlzBZL
     
  22. rpenner Fully Wired Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,833
    Cliven Bundy and Blaine Cooper both reported arrested, the former on 2014 charges at the Portland airport.

    About 1h40m later than announced last night, the first two of the final four surrender to FBI. Then another. The last (David Fry) seems more interested in live streaming, then balks demanding that the FBI listen to his "grievances".
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016
  23. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,894
    David Fry is in custody, as of approximately thirty minutes ago.
     

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