Is Turkey part of Europe or the Middle East? Is the EU a “Christian club”? Are Turkey's human rights abuses any worse than any other applicant country (and are they doing enough to address the issue)? There are already several French territories well outside Europe: Guadalupe, Martinique, French Guiana, St Michelon and Reunion; and Spanish territories in or of the coast of North Africa such as: Ceuta and the Canary Islands that are already part of the EU, so the geographic restriction has already been broken. Europe and Asia, in reality, form one geographical continent and so I've always wondered if “Europe” was originally a polite way of saying "countries with a white Christian majority population". I believe that in the future, the EU will replace its member states as a political power. If that is the case I would prefer an EU that is as diverse as possible - therefore Turkey as a state with a Muslim majority would add to that diversity. I don't know if in reality Turkey is poorer than other candidate states, although it is much bigger than them with a population similar to Germany, France, Britain or Italy. The power of the Turkish military and its treatment of Kurds and other minorities are clearly problematic, although the process of joining the EU might push change internal change on these issues. :m: Peace.
This issue and Europe politics is really not my cup of tea, but I agree, religion is the main component restraining Turkey from joining the Elite loser club.
I really couldn't give a damn. Let the population vote and make a decision based on that. It is none of our business anyways.
Going forward, could we all please check with Jerrek before posting so that we can be sure the topic is worthy of his interest and participation? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I am from Turkiye and ask me any questions. Human rights, religion, population, ethnic minorities.... There are so many things to say about this topic. Turkiye is the only secular-democratic muslem country and is also the only country in 2 continents. As a bridge between Asia and Europe its her importance is clear. Turks have no problems with the Kurds or any other ethnic minority because like US we are all people from different ethnic backgrounds. Imagine an empire like the Ottoman Empire (in 3 continents) collapses and all those people came together in a place called Turkiye. There are sooo many different athnic backgrounded people in Turkiye its difficult to count them all. Kurds are one of them. However for many years Kurdish terrorists tried to seperate the eastern Turkiye by vilonce. So there are Kurds and Kurdish terrorrists. Its important to make this clear. These kurdish terrirsts fought for many years with the Turks and terrorized eastern Turkiye. Because of this there is a huge diffrence between West and Turkiye. The West is like any other European country but the east couldnt grow because the things we built were destroyed by the terrorists. No teacher wanted to go to the east because hundreds of them got killed in the east. After the capture of their leader terrorism stopped and things are better now. This terrorism started after the first gulf war and now we are afraid that something like this might happen again. Its a country where the east and the west comes together. So there are a lot of different opinions about everything. Therefore its difficult to make everyone happy. We made so many attempts to get into EU and are still waiting but whatever we do they want us to be better. Not better.. they want us to be perfect. I think economic and religious problems are the main reasons why we dont get accepted. Anyway we see our self as a western country thats what maters and we all hope that we will get accepted. If not than we have always the chance to make a Union with the other Turkic Nations in the Central Asia Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Visit this web-site and see the most beutiful cith in the world Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! http://www.istanbul.com/
Istanbul is indeed a beautiful city, and the food is great. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! But Soulcry, what do you personally believe as a Turk? Should Turkey join or not join the E.U.?
The higher percentage of the Turks want to join the EU. We always take Greece as an example. Their economic situation was not good at all before they joined the EU but after they joined they grew very fast. The first reason why we want to join is economical reasons. Personally i would be very happy to see Turkiye as a member of the EU and i hope i will see her one day in there. We also want to follow Mustafa Kemal ATATURK's footsteps and continue to westernize. On the other hand mainly in the east there are people who want to be like Middle Eastern countries. We are doing our best to join the EU. They gave us a "to do list" to join the EU . We did almost all of them therefore our expectations were very high this year before the Copenhagen meeting. EU was always talking about the death penalty even though we did not execute someone for so many years.. so we abolished death penalty beofore the Copnehagen meeting but we still couldnt get any date. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I am afraid that people in Turkiye might get angry because they made us wait for so many years and turn back to the middle east. I dont want to offend anyone from the middle east but i just dont want to start everything from the beginning again. (If i offended anyone i am sorry and i am ready to talk about this)
I believe that in the future, the EU will replace its member states as a political power. Not a chance, the member states can't even agree between themselves what to have for dinner. Forming a united front in front of the world, don't hold your breath.
Turkey will never be accepted , everybody knows that . As for what Soulcry sais , perhaps you can refute several points I was making against missy pillow , who refused to comment on any without enbding up with turkey is kurdish paradise . First Soulcry , you distinguish between Kurds and Terrorist Kurds . I find this approach simplistic and fascist , as if they are criminals . Kurdistan was long a country before the Ottomans took it , and as The Brits and the French got Arabia , the new independant Turkish republik created by Attaturk got the Kurds , Part of cyprus , etc . Im not getting into Cyprus and the Greeks (yet) , lets remain with those rebellious Kurds who wnat their own state , you call Terrorist . I do hope you are willing to answer me questions on these people , so Im not typing all this bullshit AGAIN , for nothing (like last time) with pillow . 1)I know PKK members myself , I also know Sunni Turks , they do not have a problem in EU . The only problem is between the Grey Wolves and PKK (in EU) , and in Turkey ofcourse against the state . If all Turks would consider PKK terrorist , I wonder why they hang out with PKK , and treat eachother like best friends . Its just like the Muslim Bosnians and Christian Serbes . The serbs call them terrorist , but thats only war rhetorics to create positiveness for their cause , in EU no Serbian Christian (orthodox) has a problem with a Muslim Bosnian (decendent form Ottoman (Imagine a collapsed greater Israel in 600 years or so , with its people remaining in Arabia)) . I know PKK hits civillians , thats modern age guerilla warfare , as people are to held responsible for their government (and the Turks used their power to choose Islam whitch is quite good and proving of wanting solutions) , just as Turks supported the government that MURDERED VILLAGES of Kurds during so-called terrorist hunting operations , the Turks are quite familliar with their approach , and its comparable to the early Stern and Irgun militias of Israel . Its comparable with the Serbian ethnic cleansing militias (although that was post-conflict(war)) , and its compared to what they did in cyprus (a strong argument that isnt directly related with the Kurds but nicely shows the dealing of Turks with their minorities and occupied ones who want seperation) . There is an economic difference from God to Satan when it comes between the Turk cities and modernized communities and the Kurdish villages , there is huge oppression , and inequality . Historical it is disrespecting Islam to treat one's brother , the people of Saladin , this way . I have 2 articles that symbolize (represent) certain aspects of the Turk situation . Please show me how these are all lies . http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/tu...round_kurds.htm http://www.diaspora-net.org/Turkey/...pite_ankara.htm Now as far as the solution of the problem that the imperialist USA is behind this Kurdistan operation , I think the best way to deal with this and still respect the kurds is to offer them understanding , land , and help . Only if the nations surrounding Kurdistan will become the frined of Kurdistan , the USA looses its grip . If not , there's just another Kuweit , and another non-arab enemy . Thats the future of Kurdistan , and I regret it alot .
Isn't it funny wherever there is conflict one side always says it's the other side that are terrorists. I'v spoken with kurds & turks, Pakistani & Hindi , Jews & Arabs and really all present very good arguments why their god is on their side and the other party sux. Well let me tell you something, it takes two to tango and two to stop the tango....
Isnt he who has authority in the best position to stop it ? Ofcourse . The one oppressing calls the rebellious terrorists , and the ones oppressed call the terrorizer (the one that creates such an amount of terror that it creates an oppressive and oppressed class) a terrorist . I just call them oppressor and oppressed . The state of israel oppresses the Arab people . Yes certain Arab rebels also oppress the Israeli (psychologically mostly) , but the difference starts and ends there where there is authority . If hamas takes over Israel and creates the anti-jew state of Palestine , it will be the Jews who are opressed and not the Arabs , it will be the Jews who will be rebellious and not the Arabs , and if that Arab state would be a friendly one to those who have authority on world opinion , then it will be the rebellious Jews that are called terrorists . Same with Turkey-Kurds (State-People) Paki-Hindi is a different situation as both are nations . Its Kashmir that has a muslim population but an Indian ruler . Same with Cehnyan people who are oppressed by the Russian state . Ofcourse all these states are even more powerfully represented as they have military organization , an army . Indeed you are right , one side always blaims the other , But from a viewing point that isnt relevantly biased , I can say that there is an objective view of matters that is decided by the question , who is oppressing who ? Bring it back to A and B , names , peoples , heritages , religions , arent relevant . Thats the difference A is cause B is effect . It is not the responsibility of those who have authority of the effect to stop the effect , it is those who have authority of the cause that are responsible to stop the effect . Shit is a bit different than where there's a fight 2 are guilty . I am not doubting this . And weither one is more guilty than the other is a great point I could bring in , but irellevant , as it is already decided by those who have authority . They are always the opressor , by definition . If they didnt have authority , they would be the ones oppressed . Thats simply logics . And thats the disagreement , who opresses who . Its easily to see the answer to this question in different situations . Ofcourse there are differences between Palestina and Turkey , but a struct line only in theory cant be drawn . I believe GB made a great thread with some opressed peoples and their opressors . The answer is so incredibly obvious , only extreme biasedness or illogical thoughts dont figure it out .
just clarifying: Panama, Russia, Egypt, Maybe Denmark and Indonesia =) i like geography anyways, Turkey should be in EU because Istanbul is a hella major city and Turkey has had a profound influence in the balkans since the Ottoman days so definetely Yes
Being an US ally is also effecting Turkey to be accepted by EU. Especially after the last conflict. But at some point, Turkey will be accepted by EU and it will be good for Turkey's economy overall which will effect Kurdish- turks positively too.. And i know you guys are brainwashed for years that minorities are not having equal rights in Turkey but, ONCE AGAIN, thats absolutely NOT TRUE. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
They'll never be accepted Im sorry euro's just dont want turks in europe , its a historical thing .......... I mean come on now ........all christian euro's aint even included , but they'll have the Turks ? They have to get over de Slavs , Bulgars & Romanians first Id say . Minorities dont have equal rights ANYWHERE . I havent been in one nation in my entire life where I can say man is equal , its such a fat lie . Oh , Sunni Turks are discriminated in Germany and the Netherlands........Ofcourse so are Kurds as any other minority group . Gays have more rights than ethnical minorities in that part of Europe , lets not even start about South-europe where fascism is just regular day business , but all that bullshit is ofcourse nothing compared with the fun that has been going on in the Balkans ........home of lovely Turkey . Turks ethnic-cleansing Kurds in the hunt for "terrorism" , Ofcourse then there is Cyprus , or how about the Sunni heritage Albanians Bosnians and Kosovars ? Balkan .........the inventor of ethnic cleansing itself , but no..........Turkey has equal rights for minorities . Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Not right at all The palestinians are called terrorists because they strap bombs on themselves and specifically target civillians. Israel, is the only non-arab state in the entire middle east. It composes less than 1% of the land mass. I find it enlightening that the arabs in the region cannot tolerate even that tiny encroachment. I really don't understand the arab hate anyways.... they are direct descendants of jews (a lineage that is traced all the way back to the Bible). I do not equate jews with arabs. In every society in which jews live, they are invariably at the top of the economic ladder. They seem to thrive wherever they go. In addition, they tend to be much more interested in human rights than the general population. This is the only reason Israel hasn't wiped out the Palestinian people (as America would have, look at the native Americans for a vivid illustration of this). I have seen neither of these tendencies from the Arab people.
Its not the fact they have a bit of land , its about how they got it , as they chased out people causing a diaspora . And ofcourse the violence following it . bullshit , the Ashkenazim have not one ounce of Hebrew Israelite blood in them . As a matter of fact teh palestinians have more Hebrew genetical heritage than the Ashkenazim . As you illustrate USA its ammusable you are aware of the fact Israel is a colinist ? If you are , then why are you bringin in ridiciouless points on human rights ? And if you wish to speak of humanity , the Sephardim were welcomed in Arabia as they were thrown out by the Inquisition .
Stuck in the 15th century are we? Allah, the last time I checked we are in the 21st century. People from the Arab world are trying to come here, not the other way around.
