"I’m about to fly to Paris and shoot ‘em in the head myself!" - Anti-Muslim rhetoric ramps up..

Bells

Staff member
Meet Michele Fiore.

The very same Michele Fiore who sent out Christmas cards featuring her family, with many many guns. Many guns. Even the small child is wielding a gun. Because you know, that's how they roll.

Michele is an elected Republican lawmaker for the State of Nevada.

That quote is what she said on radio on the topic of Syrian refugees.

Michele is a tad upset that she was left off a letter, calling for the refusal of accepting Syrian refugees in Nevada. One might wonder why an elected official was left off the letter... The reason she was left off the letter is demonstrated in her comments on said radio show:

Co-host: Why aren’t the conservatives signed onto this letter? What reason could you guys possibly to not want to sign a letter saying (Fiore interrupts, “right”)—hey, unscreened refugees bad idea for Nevada.

Fiore: Right.

Co-host: So, why? Why on earth, Michele, would you not sign this letter?

Fiore: Because we didn’t know anything about the letter. Nor did we get invited to be on the letter. So, Chuck Muth calls me and I was out-of-state, handling some other stuff, and he says, “Michele, what the hell is wrong with you? Why isn’t your signature on this letter?” I’m like, Chuck, calm down. What are you talking about? (co-host interrupts, “sounds like Chuck”) What are you talking about? He’s like, “the Syrian refugees.” I’m like, what are you kidding me? (laughter) I’m about to fly to Paris and shoot ‘em in the head myself! (laughter)

I mean, I am not OK with Syrian refugees. I’m not OK with terrorists. You know, I’m OK with putting them down, blacking them out, just put a piece of brass in their ocular cavity and end their miserable life.

That's right. Michele wants to fly to France and murder Syrian refugees, and who knows, possibly with one of the many guns Michele is obsessed with.

The lunacy of the anti-Muslim tirade of the Right knows no bounds. Now we have an elected official showing a desire to commit mass murder and openly saying it on radio.

Under normal circumstances, such hateful comments should be reported more widely. However it appears as though her murderous rhetoric was overshadowed by the Right's front-runner, Trump. Or perhaps this is so common from the Right, that few would raise an eyebrow at such comments.

The last few weeks has seen Trump virtually fall over his own feet, ramping up anti Muslim rhetoric.

From saying that Muslims should be made to carry special ID's to identify them as Muslims and/or keeping a special database just for Muslims in America, to saying that if he is President, he would seek out and kill family members of terrorists, be they innocent men, women or children.

Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump said Wednesday that his administration would try to “take out” terrorists’ families, in addition to the militants themselves.

“With the terrorists, you have to take out their families,” Trump said during a “Fox & Friends” interview.

He argued that such tactics were necessary because the terrorists claim to not care about their own lives.

“When you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families,” he repeated. “They care about their lives, don’t kid yourselves. But they say they don’t care about their lives. You have to take out their families.”

Which led a leading Israeli terrorism expert to comment that such actions would be tantamount to a war-crime.

Not content, Trump went further.

A slip in the poll saw him ramp up the anti-Muslim rhetoric by issuing an official campaign statement, declaring that all Muslims should be banned from entering the US. When questioned whether this would include Muslim Americans who have traveled overseas, Trump responded by saying "everyone".

His comments are so ludicrous that the Times of Israel, of all publications, released an article about this today, with a photo of Trump, looking like he was giving a Nazi salute.

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As Jill Colvin from the Times of Israel notes:

There are, for example, more than 5,800 servicemen and women on active U.S. military duty and in the reserves who self-identify as Muslim and could be assigned to serve overseas.

Trump was also unclear on whether his ban would apply to Muslim allies in the fight against Islamic State militants.

Ari Fleischer, a former aide to Republican President George W. Bush, tweeted, “Under Trump, the King Abdullah of Jordan, who is fighting ISIS, won’t be allowed in the US to talk about how to fight ISIS.”

Well, since Trump has advised that his ban would apply to everyone who identifies as Muslim, I guess that answers that question.

Salon's Scott Kaufman noted that while the Times of Israel's image of Trump is somewhat unfair, however, they feel strongly enough and concerned enough about the anti-Muslim rhetoric that they have decided to fight dirty.

The photograph’s caption is particularly telling, by which of course, we mean damning: “Republican Presidential hopeful Donald Trump speaks during the 2016 Republican Jewish Coalition Presidential Candidates Forum.”

Is the photograph entirely fair? Of course not. But in the wake of Trump’s statements about miserly, money-wary Jews, it shouldn’t be surprising that the Israeli press has decided to remove the kid gloves and start fighting dirty.

Trump will insist that the Anti-Defamation League “cleared” him of making any anti-Semitic remarks last week, but unfortunately for Trump, last week was last week, and tonight the ADL released a statement saying that “in the Jewish community, we know all too well what can happen when a particular religious group is singled out for stereotyping and scapegoating. We also know that this country must not give into fear by turning its back on its fundamental values, even at a time of great crisis.”

The director of the American Jewish Committee, David Harris, was even more blunt in his assessment, saying that “as Jews who are now observing Hanukkah, a holiday that celebrates a small religious minority’s right to live unmolested, we are deeply disturbed by the nativist racism inherent in the candidate’s latest remarks. You don’t need to go back to the Hanukkah story to see the horrific results of religious persecution; religious stereotyping of this sort has been tried often, inevitably with disastrous results.”

And they would know. All too well. History has shown us what happens all too well.

While there is a need to talk about and tackle the radicalisation of Muslims who then feel the need to join ISIS or commit terrorist acts, in doing so, we should also be talking about and tackling the radicalisation of the Right in America and elsewhere. Because when elected officials feel comfortable and confident enough to declare they wish to commit mass murder of innocent refugees because of where they are from and because of their religious affiliations, and when a Presidential candidate can feel comfortable enough to garner support for declaring policies that would be at home in Nazi Germany, then it is clear that the cat is well out of the bag and we are entering a dangerous and terrifying new age.
 
Constitution? What's that?

And heads begin to be lined up for the chopping block.

Not the heads of Islamaphobes. Oh no, Republicans are turning on their own, if any dare to criticise Trump's unconstitutional plans.

New Hampshire’s state Republican Party chairwoman Jennifer Horn came under fire for criticizing Donald Trump’s Islamophobic new immigration plan, WMUR’s John Distaso reports.

Trump suggested barring all Muslims from entering the United States “until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on,” which given the august legislative’s body typical celerity, essentially amounts to forever, what with the “great hatred towards Americans by large segments of the Muslim population.”

Horn disagreed, saying that “there are some issues that transcend politics. While my position (as party chairwoman) is certainly political, I am an American first. There should never be a day in the United States of America when people are excluded based solely on their race or religion. It is un-Republican. It is unconstitutional. And it is un-American.”

For this, Horn is now under attack from her own party.

But state Representative Al Baldasaro disagreed, saying that what Trump’s proposing “is no different than the situation during World War II, when we put the Japanese in camps,” which for people not in Trump’s thrall, is considered one of the most shameful moments in American history.

“The people who attacked innocent people in Paris came through open borders,” he continued. “From a military mind standpoint, all Donald Trump is saying is to do what needs to be done until we get a handle on how to do background checks.”

“She needs to resign, because she has no clue,” Baldasaro concluded. “She’s my friend, but I have to separate that from the Republican Party.”

Not surprisingly, Trump’s New Hampshire campaign chairman, state Representative Steve Stepanek, agreed. “When is she going to learn that as state party chair, she is supposed to be neutral and create a level playing field?” he asked. “It seems as though she waits for President Obama and the Democrats to comment on what Donald Trump says and then repeats it. I think she should resign as chairman of the Republican Party and run for chairman of the Democratic Party.”


There is now a petition being signed, to try to force Horn to either resign or remove her from her position.
 
I would believe that it is more and more edging towards ground troops. WTF is the UN security council doing anyway?

:EDIT:

I don't like war but what is happening in the Middle East is disgusting.
 
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Constitution? What's that?

And heads begin to be lined up for the chopping block.

Not the heads of Islamaphobes. Oh no, Republicans are turning on their own, if any dare to criticise Trump's unconstitutional plans.

New Hampshire’s state Republican Party chairwoman Jennifer Horn came under fire for criticizing Donald Trump’s Islamophobic new immigration plan, WMUR’s John Distaso reports.

Trump suggested barring all Muslims from entering the United States “until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on,” which given the august legislative’s body typical celerity, essentially amounts to forever, what with the “great hatred towards Americans by large segments of the Muslim population.”

Horn disagreed, saying that “there are some issues that transcend politics. While my position (as party chairwoman) is certainly political, I am an American first. There should never be a day in the United States of America when people are excluded based solely on their race or religion. It is un-Republican. It is unconstitutional. And it is un-American.”

For this, Horn is now under attack from her own party.

But state Representative Al Baldasaro disagreed, saying that what Trump’s proposing “is no different than the situation during World War II, when we put the Japanese in camps,” which for people not in Trump’s thrall, is considered one of the most shameful moments in American history.

“The people who attacked innocent people in Paris came through open borders,” he continued. “From a military mind standpoint, all Donald Trump is saying is to do what needs to be done until we get a handle on how to do background checks.”

“She needs to resign, because she has no clue,” Baldasaro concluded. “She’s my friend, but I have to separate that from the Republican Party.”

Not surprisingly, Trump’s New Hampshire campaign chairman, state Representative Steve Stepanek, agreed. “When is she going to learn that as state party chair, she is supposed to be neutral and create a level playing field?” he asked. “It seems as though she waits for President Obama and the Democrats to comment on what Donald Trump says and then repeats it. I think she should resign as chairman of the Republican Party and run for chairman of the Democratic Party.”


There is now a petition being signed, to try to force Horn to either resign or remove her from her position.

Great name for a reporter, "John Disastro":D .

Seriously though, the US public won't stand for this sort of thing. I'm chuckling, because the damage to the GOP is such that it will virtually guarantee a Democrat White House, next term. While I like to see a sensible Republican president from time to time, I'd like even more to see Obama's legacy on healthcare become irreversible - which it will be, after another term.

So Trump has done the US a favour, and probably so has Murdoch, as I feel it must be partly Murdoch's influence on the standard of political debate that had enabled Trump to get as far as he has. Own goal or what?
 
Seriously though, the US public won't stand for this sort of thing. I'm chuckling, because the damage to the GOP is such that it will virtually guarantee a Democrat White House, next term. While I like to see a sensible Republican president from time to time, I'd like even more to see Obama's legacy on healthcare become irreversible - which it will be, after another term.
Are you sure they will not stand for it?

Trump did what candidates do: Feeling the race tightening up, he increased his outreach to voters by dangling a policy idea in front of them that he thinks they will like. The fact that he thinks this gambit will work is where the story is.

This isn’t a media story. It’s a voter story. If the only thing Trump needs to rise in the polls is media attention, he could tap dance or honk someone’s boob or get plastic surgery or something. He went this direction because he thinks, almost certainly for a good reason, that the voters who have been playing footsie with Cruz will be excited by this proposal and will go back to supporting Trump. In that sense, he’s like every other politician out there, going where the votes are.

Trump is a big, orangey object that’s fun to look at, but the real story is why there is an actual proto-fascist movement forming in this country. Trump isn’t the beginning of anything. He’s the end result of years of conservatives growing angrier and angrier — and taking pre-Trump steps like forming the Tea Party and pushing ever more radical Republicans into Congress — about the diversification of America. And if he went away tomorrow, that anger would still be there and someone, likely Cruz, would be the next guy in line to start trying to channel it into political victory.

Which is the point I was making in the OP.

Trump is merely echoing what voters on the Right want. It is the reason why Cruz, for example, did not denounce him.

People like Trump and others of his ilk feel emboldened enough to make such statements because it is a reflection of where the Right in the Republican party are right now.

And to these people, anyone who disagrees with what people like Trump or Fiore are proposing or saying openly in the media, are simply not real Republicans and should be removed from their position or silenced.

I'm chuckling, because the damage to the GOP is such that it will virtually guarantee a Democrat White House, next term. While I like to see a sensible Republican president from time to time, I'd like even more to see Obama's legacy on healthcare become irreversible - which it will be, after another term.
Are you sure about that? The Democrats are divided between two candidates.

There is no guarantee in politics, especially in a climate where candidates feel comfortable enough to voice killing innocent men, women and children, not to mention destroying the Constitution or ignoring it altogether. Because this is the climate of American politics on the Right, and elsewhere.

So Trump has done the US a favour, and probably so has Murdoch, as I feel it must be partly Murdoch's influence on the standard of political debate that had enabled Trump to get as far as he has. Own goal or what?
The only favour Trump has done is to show the ugly side of the Right. They now feel free enough to voice these things in public, where in the past it was kept mostly hidden. In the past, Republicans who voiced anything similar to this would be smacked down quickly. Now people who speak out against it on the Right are being smacked down.

There are dangerous similarities that cannot and should not be ignored. Jewish groups have been alluding to it and are now directly warning about it. The Right of the Republican party, from voters through to candidates match too many on that list of similarities. Because candidates now feel that they can talk about stripping people of their fundamental human rights and their Constitutional rights based solely on their race and religion, because such sentiments are now being echoed from the voter base. It is a dangerous and terrifying path to be on.
 
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Exchemist said:
Seriously though, the US public won't stand for this sort of thing.

I tend to agree, but if Americans have stopped surprising me in recent years, it's because I stopped expecting better.

Then again, they keep surprising me, apparently because I haven't set my expectations low enough; the problem is that it seems the solution is to stop expecting anything.

The idea of the United States of America used to actually mean something, and something good.

I don't think the public will stand for this sort of thing, but here are two benchmarks:

(1) Does Trump win the nomination?

(2) If so, what does his vote share look like?​

Right now, for instance, Trump has thirty percent support among Republicans, give or take; it's a round number suitable for our purposes.

If we presume an approximately even split in the electorate between Democrat and Republican, we start with even shares between forty-five and forty-eight percent of the electorate, with that four to ten percent being the swing bloc.

If only Trump's Republican supporters vote for him in the election, he gets fifteen percent on a straightforward extrapolation. There will never be an 85-15 election in the U.S.

So he will win some Republicans who just can't bring themselves to vote for a Democrat, or a Clinton, or a woman. What, really, are we looking at?

If we call that twenty percent of Republican voters, the straightforward extrapolation puts Trump at twenty-five percent in the general. The idea of a 75-25 presidential election in the U.S. is somewhere between insane and impossible; I have a hard enough time figuring out the circumstance I can't properly tremble at the thought.

In the U.S., a 60-40 presidential election is considered a landslide. Could Hillary Clinton manage a two to one margin, between 60-30 and 67-33?

Maybe.

Then again, in Colorado in 2010, the rape abettor won over forty-nine percent of the vote.

If Trump is the Republican nominee, what does a 60-40 split in Clinton's favor say of the forty percent of American voters who backed trump? If it's 55-45? 52-48?

What defines Americans not standing for it?

In 2014, the Colorado Fourth Congressional District sent the rape abettor to the U.S. House of Representatives. Honestly, using your office as a prosecutor to help a confessed rapist get away with it is one of those things I thought Americans would never stand for, but in purple country we saw strong support for Ken Buck, and in red country we saw him win an easy victory. Americans not only will stand for abetting rape, they will reward it.

In the end, I agree Americans won't stand for it, but I also acknowledge that's pretty much an article of faith at this point.
 
Seriously though, the US public won't stand for this sort of thing. I'm chuckling, because the damage to the GOP is such that it will virtually guarantee a Democrat White House, next term.
People have been saying that over and over.
"He claims Obama is not a citizen! Does he think the voters are idiots?"
"Now he is claiming that vaccines cause autism. No one will believe him after this."
"What? He called all Mexicans rapists? This time he's gone too far! It's all over for him."
"I can't believe he claimed that a woman reporter was asking him tough questions because she was on the rag! He's done."
"Can you believe he claimed that the pyramids were used to store grain? He won't be taken seriously after this."
"He just claimed he saw thousands of Muslims celebrating during 9/11! The US public won't stand for those sort of lies."
"He claims that he knows when an attack is imminent because he 'can feel terrorism!' No one is going to believe this clown. It's all over for him."

And every time he does that his poll numbers go up.

How is this any different? His demise has been predicted a dozen times before this.
 
¿He Is Legion?


Billvon said:
How is this any different? His demise has been predicted a dozen times before this.

We're now a matter of weeks from finding out the answer.

And the answer might well be that it is no different.

What everybody seems to be waiting on, now, is voting. The idea is that the Trump Effect is a massive preaseason temper tantrum, and Republican voters will come 'round when voting starts.

I am generally part of this outlook, but I have more reservations and caveats to juggle than I can count. That is, if Trump somehow wins Iowa, we have our answer that it is no different. If Trump loses Iowa, wins New Hampshire, and then proceeds to run on that momentum into South Carolina, Nevada, and Super Tuesday, we have our answer that it is no different.

In fact, it might be that we already know the answer; it is no different, and the only question is what that means when voting starts.

Because Trump has thirty percent of the Republican electorate, and can't climb higher than that. Strategists and tacticians are watching voters milling around through the second tier as the question remains what the other seventy percent will do. If they come together around one or two other candidates, Republicans can isolate Trump and finally put his tantrum to rest.

But who will they gather 'round? Cruz and Rubio? That would be a mistake, but at least with Sen. Rubio they can put on a pretense that his charm factor (A) is real, and (B) can overcome eveything else wrong with the idea of a Marco Rubio presidency.

Look at the frontrunners: Trump, Cruz, Rubio, Carson. Jeb Bush leads the third tier, with Christie and Fiorina behind him. Kasich? Paul? Huckabee?

The interesting thing about the GOP field this year is that their alleged prime-time candidates either crashed (Walker) or are in the process of crashing (Bush). Of the lot, I'll still back Sen. Lindsey Graham for the nomination on the grounds that if I must live under a Republican presidency, I would like that president to be at the very least competent and a halfway decent person. Fiorina and Kasich are both competent, but ethically bankrupt and morally useless. Graham's policy positions, and even his dumb-assed bandwagoning for a fight with Putin, are annoying at least and scary if we let them be, but at the same time he, like Bush, is a recognizable political creature, and it may be the comfort of familiarity is all the Republican nominee will have.

What stands out to me isn't so much the question of whether or not this occasion is different from any other. If, for instance, "Life is performance art", as I am wont to say, then Trump can still qualify as a genius; then again, he never gets to boast of what he's done because trying to explain it after the fact won't work.

But think about it; the businessman is marketing the zeitgeist. If nothing else, he's getting conservative Americans to show their true colors; he won't ever get to be president, but he will get to live the rest of his megalomaniacal life in smug reflection of how he played the suckers and showed everyone else to be suckers, too.

And it's not quite a Hitler comparison, but that is the one that comes to mind. Even I have to admit that evil can be very, very good at its job.

And Trump? By putting on this face of evil and rallying the ranks to action, he is showing us just who is legion.

It's not much, but it's what the rest of us get out of all this.

And let's face it, if he manages to smash the conservative menace by gathering it all in one place so everyone can see what it looks like, then yes, he gets to spend the rest of his smarmy life telling himself what a genius he is, and in truth it will be hard to argue that he's not.

That's a big "if", though.
 
What everybody seems to be waiting on, now, is voting. The idea is that the Trump Effect is a massive preaseason temper tantrum, and Republican voters will come 'round when voting starts.

I am generally part of this outlook, but I have more reservations and caveats to juggle than I can count. That is, if Trump somehow wins Iowa, we have our answer that it is no different. If Trump loses Iowa, wins New Hampshire, and then proceeds to run on that momentum into South Carolina, Nevada, and Super Tuesday, we have our answer that it is no different.
The outcome does not look like it will be any different even Republicans turn out and vote against Trump.

Do you think the winning candidate is going to want to dampen down the rhetoric and lose that 20-30% of the voter base that Trump is currently empowering? Cruz is already skirting around Trump's comments at present, because he recognises that if Trump loses, then he will need to garner those votes. Others have tabled legislation that would effectively ban refugees from Muslim countries from entering the US.

The issue here is that people do feel empowered enough to voice this rhetoric, be it on the electoral circuit and in public and feel no shame, embarrassment or inclination to think that it is bad. They are cheering the ramp up in the hateful rhetoric. No winner of that election is going to want to alienate that base, because it is a large voting block within the party.

Let's face it, this sort of thing used to be unheard of post WWII. But now it is common place and embraced. If you read the comments sections on some of the ring wing news sites, people are celebrating and relishing the actual thought of murdering innocent men, women and children because they are Muslim. They are celebrating the thought of stripping them of their Constitutional and human rights, because they are Muslim. People are being beaten up in Trump rallies if they dare to speak out against him or protest in or in front of those rallies. These assaults are taking place in front of the media and he does nothing to stop it. This is the nature of the current political discourse in that large voting block within the party.

And if Trump loses, then the winner will court these voters and get them on side and they are not going to do it by alienating them and their beliefs. Republicans, even those who denounced his latest comments, have said they would still back Trump if he manages to win. Others are applauding his rhetoric. None of them are renouncing him.

It is heartening that Mr. Trump’s opponents are finally condemning him in terms they would generally reserve for Democrats, but it also raises a critical question: If the GOP front-runner’s pronouncements are as lunatic and offensive as his rivals say — and they are — isn’t it incumbent on them to make clear they would oppose him if he were the party’s nominee?

The prospect of an open Republican split may send tremors down the spines of party strategists. They naturally fear an internecine war, a fractured party and maybe an independent Trump candidacy. But even those outcomes would cause less damage to their party and to the nation than uniting behind a candidate whose policies and rhetoric are morally, legally and pragmatically unconscionable — as they have now recognized.

[...]

Until now, party leaders and primary rivals have mostly dodged this question by dismissing Mr. Trump’s chances of winning the nomination. That’s no longer viable. Having stood atop the field in the polls for months, and lately having widened his considerable lead, Mr. Trump and his candidacy can no longer be laughed off as a publicity stunt. For responsible Republicans, the season of denial must end.

The plain truth is that a Trump presidency would not only fracture American society along ethnic, racial and, we now know, religious lines. It would also demolish American prestige on the world stage and alienate our most important allies. Think that’s an exaggeration? Then check with David Cameron, the Conservative British prime minister, who called Mr. Trump’s anti-Muslim hate-mongering “divisive, unhelpful and quite simply wrong.”

As it happens, on Monday, the same day Mr. Trump issued his latest incendiary call, authorities in Philadelphia began investigating an incident in which a severed pig’s head was tossed on a mosque’s doorstep, disrupting early-morning prayers. There has been a spike in similar incidents in recent weeks. This one, in the City of Brotherly Love, is a precursor of what would be an open season of such sectarian hate crimes in Mr. Trump’s America, were he elected president.

As Mr. Trump’s fellow Republican candidates now acknowledge, there is a real-world cost to a campaign that gains traction by spewing hatred, bigotry and rage. Criticizing Mr. Trump is no longer sufficient. It is time to say clearly he is anathema to the Republican Party, and to the nation.

So why aren't they denouncing him? Why haven't they revoked his party membership? Why is he still a Republican? And why have the party's leaders openly said that they would still back him if he won the candidacy, regardless of what he has said?

The answer to that is because this isn't a Trump issue. This is a voters issue and the worse the anti-Muslim sentiments become, the more those voters support it, endorse it and embrace it.

And if you want evidence of that, Trump's numbers are rising..
 
People have been saying that over and over.
"He claims Obama is not a citizen! Does he think the voters are idiots?"
"Now he is claiming that vaccines cause autism. No one will believe him after this."
"What? He called all Mexicans rapists? This time he's gone too far! It's all over for him."
"I can't believe he claimed that a woman reporter was asking him tough questions because she was on the rag! He's done."
"Can you believe he claimed that the pyramids were used to store grain? He won't be taken seriously after this."
"He just claimed he saw thousands of Muslims celebrating during 9/11! The US public won't stand for those sort of lies."
"He claims that he knows when an attack is imminent because he 'can feel terrorism!' No one is going to believe this clown. It's all over for him."

And every time he does that his poll numbers go up.

How is this any different? His demise has been predicted a dozen times before this.

You have look at what "his numbers" are, I think. There are only so many closet KKK bubbas, and what have you, out there. He can't win any of the cities. What tends to happen is there is a bandwagon effect. When it runs out of steam you get a reverse bandwagon. I see Trump as one of these "only in America" phenomena that bemuse us so much over here. Everything is bigger and more extreme then here, but in the end it sorts itself out. I have more faith in the US public than you, it seems. Sarah Palin was a success for a while. Now that the penny has dropped, she and her absurd and dysfunctional family are a national laughing stock.
 
¿True Colors?


Exchemist said:
You have look at what "his numbers" are, I think. There are only so many closet KKK bubbas, and what have you, out there.

I tend to agree, but ....

So, I was discussing this with a friend earlier, and decided to do the math; I was not pleased to find my own point undermined.

That would be the point about only thirty or so percent of the electorate supporting him, and the other seventy simply needing to decide on one or two candidates to fight over.

Potentially in excess of a third of Republicans back Trump? The next three in line are all bigots? Let's see, using the RCP average↱, we're accounting for over seventy-three percent of conservative poll respondents. The HuffPo numbers ... put that number at just shy of seventy-six percent.

While it's still true that only thirty or so percent of the electorate―really, HuffPo? thirty-four?―supports Trump, if we add in the second, third, and fourth place contenders, that number skyrockets to three-quarters supporting open bigots.

Trump, Cruz, Rubio, Carson.

Those four currently account for seventy-three to seventy-seven percent of Republican voters responding to polls.

It's not enough to win the election, but there is at least one potential upshot; the only question is whether we get to enjoy its benefit:

I'll root for the Trump-as-genius thesis↑, because it's my only hope. You know how sometimes our political outlooks are such that there is no joy in people and events proving you were right? We're amid one of those moments in which schadenfreude is entirely inappropriate because there is so much else going on that is so much more important. But think for a moment of the discussions here over the years, and how sometimes people pretend that sure, there is bigtory and badness in the world, but it's not very many, and you can't talk about our group that way. You know, the idea that it's just the Dick Blacks and Todd Akins and Richard Mourdocks; the people we're discussing and arguing with, the real conservatives, aren't really like that and please stop saying they are.

Well, holy shit. So much for that ....

.... For me, the big test is what happens once voting begins; when we contain this rising crisis, then I can take time to grin at the fact that conservatives have just shown us what they're made of.

So, yeah, there's that. All my life I've heard this back and forth; the ones we see and hear are only outliers, you can't judge conservatives like that, it's only a few squeaky wheels. Seventy-fucking-three percent!

And, you know, there's also that pretense about how nobody said this or that if it wasn't said explicitly, and we all end up wondering if the talking head is completely illiterate or completely full of shit. This time it's pretty clear: Three quarters of Republicans are backing open bigots. If you throw in Jeb and Christie, and we tally just shy of eighty percent. Oh, yeah, Rand Paul. Welcome to eighty-one and a half percent. If we expand to include other forms of bigotry not having to do with Syrian refugees―women, African-Americans, and LGBTQ―we cap out at one hundred percent.

Interestingly, the closest candidates to sanity the GOP has to offer this cycle―former Gov. George Pataki (NY) and Sen. Lindsey Graham―are drawing zero in the polls.

It's true there are only "so many", but it would also appear that is enough to put up a fight. And that weird, self-interested swing bloc that tends to not give a damn about the rest of society suddenly puts Republican bigotry within striking distance.

Trump himself can't win. In truth, I don't think Cruz can win. But Rubio? Before I did the basic arithmetic I would have said no, but if the tinfoil base is now the GOP mainline, and these numbers hold throughout, these United States of American have a serious fucking problem on their hands.

But even if we needn't worry about Republican chances, and even if Rubio doesn't have a shot, we do at least get a better glimpse of jsut how widespread bigotry is in the American conservative movement. It would be one thing to thump our chests and say we were right all along, but in truth it might well be worse than we imagined. I mean, come on; I could have told you majorities. But these numbers?

Holy shit.
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Notes:

Real Clear Politics. "2016 Republican Presidential Nomination". 6 December 2015. RealClearPolitics.com. 9 December 2015. http://bit.ly/1BAxgP3
 
In case there is any doubt:

“It’s not that simple,” Cupp replied, “that’s why so many people on both sides of the aisle have denounced this. It’s not ‘nothing new,’ as you say, there really is something new about banning an entire religious group from the country.”

Pierson shot back that “never in American history have we allowed insurgents to come across these borders!”

“No one’s talking about allowing insurgents,” Cupp replied. “You’re talking about not allowing regular Muslims.”

“Yes,” Pierson said, “from Arab nations. But you know what? So what? They’re Muslims!”

“‘So what?'” Cupp replied. “That’s not the America we live in.”


Pierson is Trump's campaign spokeswoman.
 
In case there is any doubt:

“It’s not that simple,” Cupp replied, “that’s why so many people on both sides of the aisle have denounced this. It’s not ‘nothing new,’ as you say, there really is something new about banning an entire religious group from the country.”

Pierson shot back that “never in American history have we allowed insurgents to come across these borders!”

“No one’s talking about allowing insurgents,” Cupp replied. “You’re talking about not allowing regular Muslims.”

“Yes,” Pierson said, “from Arab nations. But you know what? So what? They’re Muslims!”

“‘So what?'” Cupp replied. “That’s not the America we live in.”


Pierson is Trump's campaign spokeswoman.

Yes I heard her on BBC news last night, being interviewed about how they would enforce this rule, taking the example of a muslim UK citizen, i.e. with a British passport and no mention of religious affiliation. She had no coherent idea about how they would do it - just flailed about.

There is now a good chance there will be a debate in Parliament here about whether Trump should be refused entry to the UK on grounds of behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace (hate speech) . There is petition with >100,000 signatures, which is enough to trigger consideration of a debate. What has pissed people off is his baseless assertion that there are areas of London where the police are afraid to go, due to muslim extremism. It all reminds me of Palin and her ludicrous "Death Panels" story, about the UK National Health Service. I was pleased to see the mayor of London commented that the only reason there are areas of New York where he would not go is the risk of encountering Donald Trump! (Boris Johnson has dual UK/US citizenship.)
 
Funny. Well, Trump has a lot of appeal for a lot of people. If his message is being widely received, many are agreeing with what he's saying. We might be entering a period of nationalism with Trump leading the way. All I can say is...duck and cover.
 
People have been saying that over and over...

And every time he does that his poll numbers go up.

How is this any different? His demise has been predicted a dozen times before this.
My theory is that because he's an unusual candidate, his poll numbers aren't real. But we'll see.
 
Best case scenario: He gets the bigot vote and it isn't enough to win.
Worst case scenario: He gets the bigot vote and it is enough.
 
You have look at what "his numbers" are, I think. There are only so many closet KKK bubbas, and what have you, out there. He can't win any of the cities. What tends to happen is there is a bandwagon effect. When it runs out of steam you get a reverse bandwagon.
I agree with all that in concept. But people have been saying that for seven months, and it has yet to be true. At some point you have to accept that the common wisdom may not apply in this case.
 
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