What is "Rape Culture"?

Huh?

No, really: Huh?

What are you on about?

I mean, even if I take the part that can be construed as making sense―

"An attempt to understand the behavior of men and patriarchy does not in any way absolve them of their responsibility,"​

―I still don't see where you're going, since the response would be that I would not disagree.

Nothing. Why do you ask?

And very interesting, indeed. I actually have, sitting on my desktop, an unfinished response to you that waits somewhere in its second post. I stayed the posts because I recognized they bore a specific, fatal flaw in presuming that I have a clue what you're on about, and since I don't, it's probably best to wait until I have a few more markers defining the path.

But I can say this much:

That would be part of what I'm on about. I like your phrasing, to be certain; thank you.

 

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Gretchen Kelly↱ explains "The Thing All Women Do That You Don't Know About":

There's this thing that happens whenever I speak about or write about women's issues. Things like dress codes, rape culture and sexism. I get the comments: Aren't there more important things to worry about? Is this really that big of a deal? Aren't you being overly sensitive? Are you sure you're being rational about this?

Every. Single. Time.

And every single time I get frustrated. Why don't they get it?

I think I've figured out why.

They don't know.

They don't know about de-escalation. Minimizing. Quietly acquiescing.

Hell, even though women live it, we are not always aware of it. But we have all done it.

We have all learned, either by instinct or by trial and error, how to minimize a situation that makes us uncomfortable. How to avoid angering a man or endangering ourselves. We have all, on many occasions, ignored an offensive comment. We've all laughed off an inappropriate come-on. We've all swallowed our anger when being belittled or condescended to.

It doesn't feel good. It feels icky. Dirty. But we do it because to not do it could put us in danger or get us fired or labeled a bitch. So we usually take the path of least precariousness.​

This is not something I can explain; it is not my experience.

More directly, I encourage people to read, and pay attention, to Ms. Kelly's post.
____________________

Notes:

Kelly, Gretchen. "The Thing All Women Do That You Don't Know About". The Huffington Post. 23 November 2015. HuffingtonPost.com. 29 November 2015. http://huff.to/1NiVV3m

 

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Modern marketing seems often closer to coercion than it is to persuasion.

It's obviously not true that "women like what they like" in clothing fashions, for example. Neither is it apparent that anyone is being "convinced" of anything, in the ordinary sense.

But convincing someone of the nature of their own wants seems only a bit more plausible than making them want something. And the subterranean connection with rape throws up traces in the language of trade and commerce as well as the gossip of seduction and sexual betrayal.

 

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The reason I created the topic in the first place was because someone kept deleting my responses to the accusations of me being a rape advocate. I assumed that you were aware of this.

How would I know that? The other moderators were attacking me, calling me a rape advocate, and even using the old slogan insisting that rape was only about violence and power, not sex.

From the topic that you closed...

"An evolutionary approach to understanding the origins of patriarchy is valuable for two reasons. First, it goes one step further than conventional feminist analyses in searching for the origins of male motivation to gain power over females. That is, evolutionary theory not only considers how men exercise power over woman, but also investigates the deeper question of why males want power over females in the first place, which feminists tend to take as a given."

"The coercion hypothesis is consistent with feminist and sociological perspectives in arguing that rape is intrinsically related to male social and physical dominance over females."

http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/i...Week 5/Evolution of Patriarchy Smuts 1995.pdf

There may or may not be a rape trait but there are plenty of traits that could lead a person to commit rape. Certain features of our culture may influence rape but a "rape culture" alone implies a blank slate.

I think that not only are the rape statistics mired in half-truths, but so, too, are the conviction statistics. Don’t get me wrong, there’s a lot of room for improvement, but the media’s misrepresentations are off putting and may deter victims from coming forward.

You really can’t think of any? How 'bout promoting bystander intervention and education. Pushing for more funding towards prosecution. Doing away with the "us vs. them" mentality. Change the way that men and women relate to one and another. Talking and exchanging ideas. I, for one, appreciate your topics. If we can’t have an open discussion about rape, how in the hell can we ever expect a change, right?

 

while its by no means mind control it is beyond convincing them. convincing someone implies a conscience choice on their part which you can by pass by using their subconscience. your saying its binary but its not there is a spectrum. why do have free will its just far easier to suggest and nudge people to things than you'd think.

I'm going to ignore your claims to being an expert even though we all know your not. that being said your clearly not looking into the right spots. there is an entire tv show about how are brains work and the short cuts it takes. brain games. i'd look into it if i were you. we pack animals social by our very nature that can be used against us in ways we won't even really notice.

 

What is this blank slate, and how is it implied?

 

Tiassa, don’t. You know very well that the Blank Slate argues that all humans are born with some innate traits. It's the idea that behavioral traits are a combination of genetics, experiential, and/or cultural. The implication is obvious.

I’m not saying that I think that specific genes can control our behavior, but I do think that there are biological influences that can cause certain reactions to our environment.

 

See, this is the key: What implication?

I would think the historical record indicates that we frequently have some trouble agreeing on both implications in general and what seems obvious in particular.

I have no intention of writing your thesis for you; as you tend to disdain my interpretations of what you're after, there would seem no real point in trying.

I'm also still just waiting to see if this string of posts since Thursday↑ is actually contiguous or just has some strange coincidental resemblance.

You're going one of three places, by this idea of contiguity:

(1) Back to a dysfuntional argument

(2) Forward to a new iteration, variation, derivation, or related argument

(3) Some other direction entirely​

The functional result is that every potential axis presents three hundred sixty open degrees with no significant markers; it seems more useful to simply wait and see where you're going with this.

 

No, it doesn't.

Claiming that culture structures the expression of human nature does not claim there is no human nature, and it most definitely does not imply that there is no variation in human nature within a given culture.

Likewise, claiming that a given culture encourages or abets certain expressions of human nature rather than others does not claim that all possible cultures are constrained by nature to do likewise, that cultures cannot be distinguished on the basis of whether they act similarly, or that labels cannot be attached to different patterns or combinations of such cultural encouragement.

That is: even if rape is an intrinsic possibility of human nature or combinations of its aspects, available to us all, cultures can in theory vary in their tolerance and encouragement of sexual assault as a norm of behavior. Whether or how a given culture does that is a question of fact, not theory. The facts as discovered can be classified, patterns noted, and labels attached.

 

Yes, it does. It's the social learning theory of rape.

I don't know. Are you leaning towards the social learning theory, the feminist theory of inequality, or a little of both?

The implication of male stereotyping, for one. There is a certain level of toxic masculinity, but there’s also toxic femininity. I go back and forth because there are two sides to the coin.

Curious places, that’s where I’m always going. I don’t know what goes on in a man’s mind. Do they really think of us as complete opposites? Do they really think of us as less than? Do they really have delusions of inherent superiority? If so, they should at least have the courage to acknowledge it. Do you, too, Tiassa. Tell me the truth. Do you think men are superior?

 

Huh?

 

What, an absurd question? Because you’re gay, because you’re a feminist? Why is it an absurd question?

 

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In truth, I hadn't realized this was a confusing issue.

Then again, that is my own arrogance; I really do need to be more conscious of the fact that some people really do need it spelled out for them in monosyllables:

"Do you think men are superior?"

→ Of course not. Duh. What makes you think I would?​

I mean, seriously, this has to come from somewhere.

 

1) No, it isn't. 2) If it were, that still would not mean any kind of "blank slate" presumption.

As I included, to prevent you confusion: " Claiming that culture structures the expression of human nature does not claim there is no human nature, - - ".

Nobody here who is trying to explain the obvious existence of a rape culture in the US is doing so from a blank slate presumption. The false dichotomy of nature vs nurture, blank slate vs culture "cause", etc, has come from those oblivious to the rape culture in the US, and them only.

 

You sort of answered your own question. You may still be arrogant but at least you're less aggressive. That's a good thing, right?

1) Yes, it is. 2) I agree with Pinker on this one.

“This grew into the modern catechism: rape is not about sex, our culture socializes men to rape, and it glorifies violence against women. The analysis comes right out of the gender-feminist theory of human nature: people are blank slates (who must be trained or socialized to want things); the only significant human motive is power (so sexual desire is irrelevant); and all motives and interests must be located in groups (such as the male sex and the female sex) rather than in individual people.”

Let me ask you something. Is the aggression towards women related to the nature of the relationships that men have with one and other? If yes, how so?

 

Yo, troll:

• "Do you think men are superior?"​

Where did you get that stupid fucking question?

If you can't manage the fucking decency to answer that, you will at least have answered the question about whether or not you're worth paying any attention to.

 

No, as pointed out now three times, there is no presumption of a blank slate here except as promulgated by rape culture deniers, in a false dichotomy.

Pinker is talking about invalid analysis and socio0logical misconception based on a blank slate presumption. That has nothing to do with this thread, in which no presumption of a blank slate appears.

Pinker nowhere claims that culture has no significant influence on human behavior - he instead emphasizes the significance of cultural expression, the ubiquity of cultural features such as language and poetry and music and dance, that vary greatly between different cultures even as they share roots in human nature. Pinker is fully aware of the significance and influence of culture, blank slate or no blank slate. In this thread, human nature rather than a blank slate is the presumption behind all of my posts, guaranteed, and seems to be universal here. Why would you assume otherwise?

Probably. Your point?

 

Why do you always resort to that, calling someone a troll? Why can't it ever be what it is, the lack of understanding one another. It's not a stupid fucking question. You obviously think you're superior. You are arrogant as all hell. It is what it is. Sorry.

Beliefs in male superiority and entitlement increases the likelihood of rape, does it not? I think most men feel superior. I was wondering if deep down, you did, too.

Would you call that sexual coercion? If so, is human male sexual coercion similar to those employed by nonhuman primates?

 

Do you agree with iceaura, Bells?

It's late. Nite, Bells...Zzzz