What is "Rape Culture"?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Bowser, Nov 8, 2015.

  1. Secular Sanity Registered Senior Member

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    Well, I agree with Bowser and so does this young lady. He’s right. All males are being viewed with fear in a way that suggests that they are all potential rapists.

    Groping, a slap on the ass, or any other non-consensual sexual touching IS sexual assault. With this in mind, I would have to say that the statics are way too low. That almost every woman has experienced sexual assault at least once in her lifetime. In that respect, he’s wrong. We do in fact reside in a rape culture.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2015
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  3. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Makes me wonder if they ever get a positive response...? Do some woman actually respond to such with interest?
     
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  5. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    If we want to redefine the word "rape," then I suppose that would alter the statistics. However, would we charge a man with rape for putting his hand on a woman's ass, or would we define it simply as a sexual assault? Maybe the definitions are too vague or they are too broad.
     
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  7. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Hmm... Maybe the term is an umbrella for a number of activities...
     
  8. Bells Staff Member

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    I don't think they would care either way.

    The reason for that is simple. Rape prevention ideology and policies literally teach and educate women and girls to view all men as potential rapists. There are many who protest against this on the one hand because they are offended by the prospect that all men are being viewed as potential rapists, and on the other hand, those very same people expect women to take precautions that would result in their always being wary 24/7.

    For example, telling a woman who is going out for a night on the town with her boyfriend to not get drunk because he could rape her. He and other men would respond negatively to this, because it is viewing the boyfriend as a potential rapist. But if the woman gets drunk and is raped by the boyfriend, her behaviour is questioned and points are made about the dangers of drinking and getting drunk because she could be raped.. By the very same people who complain that men are viewed as rapists. Rape prevention policies and ideologies is a vicious circle. Because the woman is damned if she doesn't view him as a potential rapist and acts accordingly - be wary, not drink, not be alone with him, etc and she is damned if she lives her life like a normal person and not in fear and she is raped, because she got drunk, was alone with him, etc.

    Let's look at RAINN's rape prevention tips when it comes to alcohol safety as a prime example:

    • Keep an eye on your friends. If you are going out in a group, plan to arrive together and leave together. If you decide to leave early, let your friends know. If you’re at a party, check in with them during the night to see how they’re doing. If something doesn’t look right, step in. step in. Don’t be afraid to let a friend know if something is making you uncomfortable or if you are worried about their safety.
    Common sense really. Right? Now, if we were to apply the complaints of men who feel aggrieved that women view them as potential rapists, how would they view it? That if they are at the same party or club, for example, that the women there would have these plans implemented just in case one of the guys there turns out to be a rapist. You are a guy and you start talking to a girl and you notice her friends checking in on her constantly, just to make sure you aren't a rapist. You'd be pissed and offended. And men are, because of the usual complaint that women view them as being potential rapists, yet, this is what is expected of women and women who somehow fail to take these steps are often blamed if they are raped. And yet, it is these very same people who pitch a fit about these expectations of women always being at the ready to fight off a rapist in her near vicinity, because it views the men around her as being potential rapists.

    • Have a backup plan. Sometimes plans change quickly. You might realize it’s not safe for you to drive home, or the group you arrived with might decide to go somewhere you don’t feel comfortable. Download a rideshare app, like Uber, or keep the number for a reliable cab company saved in your phone and cash on hand in case you decide to leave.
    You go out with a group of friends. You are a guy. You all decide to go somewhere else and one of the girls you are with looks at you and says 'sorry, I don't feel safe going there'. You offer to drive her home on the way and she says 'no, I'd feel safer if I caught a taxi'.. Rape prevention ideology demands she views the guy as a potential rapist. Those who espouse rape prevention ideology then go on to complain that women view all men as rapist.

    • Know what you’re drinking. Don’t recognize an ingredient? Use your phone to look it up. Consider avoiding large-batch drinks like punches or “jungle juice” that may have a deceptively high alcohol content. There is no way to know exactly what was used to create these drinks.
    You go out to a bar with your friends and you buy a round of drinks for everyone. The girls in your party immediately take out their phones and start looking it up, because you know, they don't know what it is and they think you could be a potential rapist. You invite your friends over for a party, and you notice the girls who came are refusing to drink the mixer or punch you made, because they think you are a potential rapist and so, out of fear and self preservation, they refuse to drink it because they don't know what's in it. If they drink it and they get drunk and are raped, they are blamed for a) being there, b) drinking those drinks in your house. If they do as they are advised by rape prevention ideology, the #whataboutmen crowd scream in anger because women view them as being potential rapists. Damned if she does, damned if she doesn't.

    And it goes on and on.

    For people who complain that women view men as being rapists or potential rapists, they should look at the culture that expects women to not be raped and which expects and demands women adjust their lives and how they live their lives and their actions to make sure they are not raped. Because when women are expected to prevent being raped, instead of the onus being placed on the men to not rape, women will view all men as being potential rapists. Why? Because that is what rape prevention ideologies demand and expect.
     
  9. Secular Sanity Registered Senior Member

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    Do you think sexual assault is a culture norm in the United States? If so, are you okay with this? Could it foster a rape-prone environment?
     
  10. Secular Sanity Registered Senior Member

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    We both have boys. I don't want people to view them as such, but we're just not there yet. We still have to use our common sense. We still have to view males as potential rapists.
     
  11. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    My own life experience would suggest that sexual assault is not the norm. That's not to say it doesn't happen. And I'm starting to think it might be an attitude that's localized regionally. Looking at the statistics for my own city, rape crime seems rather high compared to national statistics. But it doesn't account for sexual assaults in general.

    http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Portland-Oregon.html

    I have not witnessed sexual assault in the general public, among fellow males, or throughout my travels. But I concede I am not a woman; therefore, my perception is skewed.

    Does sexual assault foster a rape prone environment. I don't know. That would be an interesting study. If we want to assume correlations, we might also ask: Does watching television make one more likely to commit a crime. Does playing video games make one more likely to commit a crime. Etc.
     
  12. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    I feel badly for you ladies, that you live in perpetual fear of being raped.
     
  13. Secular Sanity Registered Senior Member

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    I don’t know. Do you think sexual assault is a crime?

    Boys will be boys, right? Pinching a girl’s ass on a school bus was a common occurrence because we always viewed this behavior as normal male behavior. Should we be flattered, Bowser? Flattery is excessive and insincere praise, especially that given to further one's own interests.

    “The picture shows the upper part of a naked girl sitting in a bed. No evidence of character. I tilt the newspaper, find that I can alter the image at will. From one angle, the girl is a stranger, object of lechery; from another, my daughter, needing my protection.

    When I view my daughter I enter a relationship, deal with a person. When I view the prostitute I abandon human relationships, dismember her, deal with parts; breast, buttocks, belly, genitals.”
    —Allen Wheelis

    Does social media influence us? Absolutely. As you pointed out earlier with the Miley Cyrus video, we even self-objectify. Does a woman’s worth rest on her appearance, on her parts? That’s what social media teaches us
    You should feel badly for us, Bowser, because we are more than just the sum of our parts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2015
  14. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    Do you know what annoys the absolute shit out of me about the whole rape prevention ideology? It's that it treats us as though we are stupid, as though we need to be told this again and again. And the biggest load of crap about it all is that it is designed to make us afraid and not trusting of those around us. It expects us to live in a perpetual state of fear. And then we are abused for being in a state of fear, because of the #whataboutmen brigade. And worse still, it leads to the expectation that if you follow those steps, you won't be raped. Rape prevention ideology fails to address the fact that women are more likely to be raped by men we know.

    At the end of the day, you cannot tell women to not be afraid of men, and then demand they prevent their own rapes by living in such a way as to suspect anyone of being a potential rapist. I've been there. And what was I told? 'Well, you are wealthy, why didn't you take better steps for security around your home and get guard dogs and security guards, if you really didn't want to be raped'.. And then the 'why didn't sleep with your phone?'.. I mean honestly, this is what I am told I should have done. Who in the hell does that? Do you have guard dogs roaming your property while you sleep because a male relative might break into your home and rape you? This is the extent the insanity goes to.

    Imagine now, a woman who has a boyfriend, going to sleep with her phone on her as a measure of rape prevention and her boyfriend asks her what's the phone for. Does she tell him? 'Well, I could be raped in my bed, so this is my security..'?

    Rape prevention feeds rape culture. Why? Because it always places the onus on the woman to not be raped. Sure, there may be platitudes about how it is not her fault. But it says that, and then sets the expectation that she must prevent being raped. That she has to take the precautions. There is no rape prevention aimed at potential rapists. It sets to curb the behaviour of women, but never of men.

    Now, imagine what happens when the woman acts and takes all the steps to "prevent" being raped and she is raped. And then she is asked 'what other steps could you have taken to stop it?' .. You have no idea how that destroys you. People cannot have it both ways. If rape prevention is to be pushed on women, then men will be viewed as potential rapists. How can they not if rape prevention is on the table. That is what it is. Common sense would entail trusting women. Rape prevention ideology is not about trusting the woman. It is about pushing the idea that she simply cannot know these things or would not know these things that we refer to as common sense, so she must be told, over and over again. Rape prevention is never about the man not raping. It is always about the victim or the woman not being raped. The difference between the two is vast.

    Yes, we both have boys. My eldest is 10 and youngest is 8 years of age. Still babies really. From one of the earliest age, from the moment they could understand in their play, when someone says stop or no, they stop. They don't push. I can only hope that that message from playing as toddlers and children, that understanding of respecting others and their wishes, stays with them. Do I enjoy the thought that as they get older, girls and then women will view them as being potential rapists? Of course not. It galls me and makes me want to scream. My point, as their parent, is to teach them about respecting others and teach them as they get older that women are not objects, that women deserve respect, and that no means no.. As their mother and as a woman, it is my job to teach my sons to not rape. Not because they could be potential rapists. It is because the education about rape has always been centered around the woman to not be raped. It needs to start focusing on everyone to not rape.

    Wow..

    When someone sexually assaults another, they are treating that person like an object to be taken and used. Does sexual assault foster a rape prone environment? Think about it. Sexual assault is sexual touching without consent. It is viewing the victim as being an object, whose consent matters not. It is using that person for one's personal gratification and their wants and desires, their rights over their own body ceases to matter or exist. When someone grabs another person's backside, their breast, smacks them on the backside in a bar, for example, it is letting that person know that they have more power over their body and they can take as much or as little of it as they want and there's nothing you can do about it and whether you consent or not is beside the point. Do you understand now how it cannot be compared to how watching TV and whether that makes one commit a crime?
     
  15. milkweed Valued Senior Member

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    Has your question, as in "what is rape culture" been answered yet?

    And if so, what is the definition as you understand it.
     
  16. Secular Sanity Registered Senior Member

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    And that’s where we differ. Most women would probably love to see more rape prevention programs aimed towards men, teaching them to take responsibility for their behavior, but risk reduction programs for women are still necessary.
     
  17. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Absolutely, but does it always lead to rape? I think there are degrees to crime. Personally, rape sounds much more severe than being groped.

    But then there is real life. You know, the women we live and work with. I've yet to have a female co-worker twirk me. I think media searches for extremes to hold our attention: beautiful people, violence, sex. If you use it as a measure of your own self-worth, you will always be disappointed.

    I would agree. However, we are sexual creatures, too--men and women. When someone displays interest, it shouldn't be a shock. Yes, groping, slapping and pinching is, in my opinion, too aggressive, but if someone tells you that you are beautiful, appealing, or attractive, is that such a terrible thing? If a man on the street says hello, does that make him a predator?
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2015
  18. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    I still don't see it. What I see are women who have been the object of sexual advances. Whether they are actual rape victims, I don't know, nor would I ask.
     
  19. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    And some people are just incapable.

    What I don't understand is why you're rushing to advertise your danger, these days.

    But honestly, man―

    ―either you're going out of your way to be rude about this all, or you're just not capable of comprehending the issue.

    In either case, you are establishing yourself as dangerous to your fellow human beings.

    Demonstrably, your proclivities make you more dangerous to some than others.
     
  20. Bells Staff Member

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    One of the best things about self defense courses is that it empowers women. A bad part of that, however, expectation that she must act or respond. Many victims freeze up in terror and fear and shock.

    But for me, the worst thing about rape prevention programs aimed at women is that it does not prepare them for acquaintance rape, which is the most common type of rape.

    While some individual people feel safer knowing that risk reduction strategies exist, it can be problematic if a campus only uses risk reduction in its efforts to curb sexual assault and rape. Perhaps the biggest flaw of risk reduction strategies lies in the fact that most strategies are designed for victims to use during a stranger assault. We know that statistically 97% of victims are sexually assaulted by someone they know and trust. Most of these assaults happen within a context where things like mace or pepper spray would not be useful. Most perpetrators of acquaintance rape use manipulation, coercion and pressure during the assault. And let’s be real, how many of us hold a can of mace in our hands while we are making out with someone “just in case” things start to go farther than we want them to go? It’s just not realistic. Also, risk reduction strategies have the potential to increase victim guilt and self-blame. If a survivor or bystander is trained in self-defense but does not use the techniques (or uses those techniques unsuccessfully) during a sexual assault, it can leave the victim feeling like they should have done more.

    And it still does not tackle or deal with the #whataboutmen brigade, who protest so vehemently that rape prevention ideology demands that every single person, especially men, be treated with suspicion and doubt at all times.

    As I said, the woman is damned to be blamed either way. There is no out for her.
     
  21. Secular Sanity Registered Senior Member

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    Unwanted penetration is worse than unwanted sexual contact, is that what you're saying?

    That was a question at the heart of a defamation case in Chicago.

    Is Sexual Assault as Bad as Rape?

    It was addressed brilliantly by Professor Heidi Lockwood:

    Nope. He's only a potential predator.
     
  22. milkweed Valued Senior Member

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    Projecting a life experience onto the whole, forgetting that 99.9% of their remaining life experience does not encompass the anomaly of rape. Presenting it as a Rape Culture rather than an abhorrent deviation from the norm. Dragging everyone down to the lowest denominator, declaring (like some black knight) None Shall Pass.
     
  23. Secular Sanity Registered Senior Member

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    Um...99.9%, where did you get that number? Anomaly of just rape? Do you want to classify it, break it down for Bowser? Are you only referring to non-consensual penetration, sexual contact, harassment, or what exactly?
     

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