Immigration Crisis or an Economic Opportunity?

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Michael, Oct 6, 2015.

  1. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Perhaps you didn't watch the video... Mercury poisoning? Children?
     
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  3. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Which part of my post did you miss when I wrote that Debtors Prisons may or may not exist in a Libertarian society? Which part Joe? That FACT is (assuming you still think empirical evidenced data is relevant to your world view) Americans ARE right now sent to prison for debt.

    In a free society people are free to NOT sign contracts with debtor prison clauses. People are free to not associate with companies that enforce debt with prison sentences. Lastly, juries and courts can determine the validity of contracts that contain debtor prison clauses. Assuming people don't like debtor prisons - they leave free societies. In Statist societies, the Oligarchs bail themselves with trillion dollars in debt and stick the unborn with the bill, sending them to jail if they don't pay.
     
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  5. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    I saw the movie years ago.

    Are you a vegan?
     
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  7. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Please continue.
     
  8. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    As for Hg poisoning, I'd strongly suggest don't allow children to eat any fish that are long lived: tuna (choose light tuna if you do eat it), shark, marlin, swordfish, mackerel or pike - as well as dolphin and whale.

    If you care about the suffering of other living creatures, don't consume any animal products: meat, leather, vitamins, etc....

    You DO know beer is made out of animals? Yeast belong to the animal kingdom. Something you may want to consider.
     
  9. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Killing dolphins is Japans culture, yes?
     
  10. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Not just dolphins. They also kill pig, whale and cow.

    So? Are you a meat eater?
     
  11. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    So, how many dolphin farms are in Japan? Zero, you're right!

    Because Japanese culture is all about denial.
     
  12. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    What's your point? Forcing an animal to live in a farm is .... better than free range?

    Denial of what exactly?

    So? Do you eat fish or other meat?
     
  13. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    The Guardian: Refugee crisis: Germany creaks under strain of open door policy

    The realities of shouldering Europe’s refugee crisis are coming home toGermany, amid daily reports of clashes in asylum seeker homes; bureaucrats overwhelmed by a backlog of registration claims and deep divisions within chancellor Angela Merkel’s conservative ranks over how to manage the enormity of the challenge.

    Just weeks after Merkel responded to the refugee crisis with the declaration: “Wir schaffen es – We can do it” – the euphoric mood has been replaced by a more sombre response with the realisation that the newcomers are here to stay, with all the consequences that entails.

    School authorities are calling for at least 25,000 new teaching recruits to cope with the large numbers of new pupils, police officers are being brought out of retirement in their thousands, and the nation is being scoured for suitable accommodation as winter approaches.


    “The welcome parties in Munich, Berlin and elsewhere were great,” said the Munich-based
    Süddeutsche Zeitung in a recent editorial. “They showed a generous and open Germany of which we can be very proud, headed by a chancellor who seemed to surprise herself with her response, (and) tens of thousands of volunteers ... but now we’re in the stark light of day which consists of overcrowded refugee centres and local authorities and police stretched to their limits.

    Arson attacks on refugee shelters continue on an almost daily basis. Reports of refugees being greeted at the doors of their new homes by neo-Nazis humming Third Reich songs or being pelted with banana skins are not uncommon. There are mounting concerns that elements of the far-right have found new oxygen in the crisis by tapping into ordinary people’s fears that Europe’s largest economy may be unable to cope with the decision to allow so many to take refuge within its borders.

    Latest estimates, so far unconfirmed by the government, are that Germany might expect as many as 1.5 million refugees by the end of the year, mostly from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq. There are no signs the numbers will let up in the near future, with one government minister warning this week that many women and children can be expected to follow the males who made up the majority of those making the journey first. Merkel’s decision last month to “open the doors”, particularly to Syrian refugees, has attracted growing criticism even within her own party as an estimated 10,000 people continue to arrive every day.


    -o-
    Geee, with Nationalist (Statist) kooks burning cars and buildings - just think of all the Jerbs..... wow, I mean, the number of Broken Windows must be astronomical, the economic gains to be had..... In the real world teachers will, out of necessity, have to focus on the education of refugee children, at the expense of German kids. Yes, let's see how that works out. In the real world there are limits and Broken Windows do NOT make society prosper.

    Anyway, this'll be interesting to watch. I'll be particularly interested in how Germans deal with the fact millions of refugees are not going anywhere. If you thought the Welfare State was costly before - you ain't seen nothing yet.

    So, this is where the tire hits the road.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
  14. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    LOL...that's more than a little disingenuous don't you think? Yes, you wrote, "Which part of my post did you miss when I wrote that Debtors Prisons may or may not exist in a Libertarian society? " And when you wrote that, you contradicted your previous assertion.

    Have you forgotten you first wrote, "Statist like Bernie HAVE NO limits. Which is why Welfare Ghettos are now ticking over to 5 and 6 generations! That would NEVER be allowed to happen in a free-market." and you also wrote, "You think the STATE protects Citizens FROM debtor prison? It's the STATE that imprisons them! Jesus Horus Christ". You have contradicted yourself yet again. First by claiming that debtor prisons would not exist in your "free market Libertarian nirvana" and then later by admitting they may or may not exist in your Libertarian nirvana. The fact is they would exist, because they have existed in the past when government regulation was very close to your Libertarian ideal.

    The unpleasant fact for you is debtor prisons were commonplace in the era of limited government (i.e. your Libertarian ideal) and now in an era where government does intervene and regulate markets, debtor prisons no longer exist. I asked you to name one debtor prison which you claim exists today. Thus far you have been unable to name even one. Because debtor prisons no longer exist...oops. Not surprisingly, you are not being honest Michael.

    If we had debtor prisons, per your Libertarian ideal, the state may once again imprison debtors at the behest of creditors. But it would be more consistent with Libertarian ideals to bring back indentured servitude which is a form of slavery as it would minimize state involvement... no prisons to build and maintain or prisoners to cloth and feed.

    And because some people will be desperate for money, they will sign contracts which would subject the to debtor prisons. We have centuries of data which supports that fact. So in your Libertarian ideal would resurrect debtor prisons.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
  15. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Let me get this straight, because MAYBE if the USA were a freer society (Libertarian) there COULD, POSSIBLY be debtor prisons in 2015 therefor..... what exactly? What is your point? That because someone, somewhere over 100 years ago went to prison therefor ..... WHAT?

    The FACT IS the US Government imprisons Citizens for Debt. What don't you get?!? You DO understand that the US Government imprisons more non-violent human than ANY OTHER State or Institution in history.

    One more time, the US Government currently runs the LARGEST Prison Industrial Complex in HUMAN HISTORY. The gulags of the USSR pale in comparison.

    So, I fail to see what you're flailing about in the kiddie pool over? What?


    It should be noted: YOU failed to provide ANY evidence that Koch Industries 'steal oil' or are in violation of the EPA. The fact is, again, Koch Industries ONLY.... and I mean ONLY, exist because they provide people value for money. They SERVE society. People only do business with them because they freely WANT TO. If not, they'd go to a competitor. AND, it should be noted, that unlike SlumLords preying on the poor and the week (like looking for "Good Deals in Democrat-Destroyed Detroi), Koch Industries hire highly skill engineers and use *gasp* Capital savings that are used to BUILD America. That make our way of life more prosperous. SlumLords OTOH are no different than a parasite. Hell, even a parasite probably serves some purpose.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2015
  16. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Where are these debtor prisons you claim exist? You were asked to name one, and for several posts now you have failed to name one. Because contrary to your repeated assertions, they don't exist.

    If it is a fact that the US imprisons people for financial debts, then you should be able to prove it. But you can't. You should be able to point to one legal case of someone being imprisoned due to debt. Criminals in this country are sometimes fined rather than imprisoned or given public service (where available) but that isn't debt. It's punishment for violating the law.

    Unfortunately for you Michael, people are not imprisoned for debts in this country.

    That isn't the issue here. The issue is debtor prisons and your accusation people are imprisoned for failing to pay their debts. You know very well why the US imprisons so many people. It's our drug laws, and that is another issue.

    The only one sloshing around in the kiddie pool is you my friend.

    Hmm, "it should be noted" that I failed to provide evidence of Koch brother stealing oil...seriously? I guess you haven't been paying attention. Because that issue has been repeatedly discussed with you over the years. What happened to your fingers, not all of a sudden you cannot google?

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    Koch Industries hire people skilled and unskilled alike. Your idealized view of the Kochs just isn't supported by reality. I find it interesting you are trying to carve out slum lords from your free market beliefs. So you feel greed is good for everyone but slum lords.

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    . Seriously Michael, how can anyone take you seriously. How can you take yourself seriously?

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/blood-and-oil/
    http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/stories/1996-03-31/bob-doles-oil-patch-pals
    http://articles.latimes.com/1989-05-09/news/mn-3140_1_indian-lands-indian-affairs-oil-companies

    Under the nearly five-decade reign of CEO Charles Koch, the company has paid out record civil and criminal environmental penalties. And in 1999, a jury handed down to Koch's pipeline company what was then the largest wrongful-death judgment of its type in U.S. history, resulting from the explosion of a defective pipeline that incinerated a pair of Texas teenagers.

    The volume of Koch Industries' toxic output is staggering. According to the University of Massachusetts Amherst's Political Economy Research Institute, only three companies rank among the top 30 polluters of America's air, water and climate: ExxonMobil, American Electric Power and Koch Industries. Thanks in part to its 2005 purchase of paper-mill giant Georgia-Pacific, Koch Industries dumps more pollutants into the nation's waterways than General Electric and International Paper combined. The company ranks 13th in the nation for toxic air pollution. Koch's climate pollution, meanwhile, outpaces oil giants including Valero, Chevron and Shell. Across its businesses, Koch generates 24 million metric tons of greenhouse gases a year.

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    For Koch, this license to pollute amounts to a perverse, hidden subsidy. The cost is borne by communities in cities like Port Arthur, Texas, where a Koch-owned facility produces as much as 2 billion pounds of petrochemicals every year. In March, Koch signed a consent decree with the Department of Justice requiring it to spend more than $40 million to bring this plant into compliance with the Clean Air Act. - Rolling Stone


    Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...-brothers-toxic-empire-20140924#ixzz3oVadKmXm
    Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook



    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/inside-the-koch-brothers-toxic-empire-20140924[/QUOTE]
     
  17. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    (A) We don't live in the 1800s.
    (B) The US Government is now the largest State in the history of humanity. It's not a coincidence that it imprisons the most non-violent humans ever.

    Firstly, there'd be LESS desperation because we'd be a freer and more prosperous society.

    Secondly, look out your window princess, there are many desperate US Citizens being abused by the US Government right now. Many more are selling sex, drugs and all sorts of things out of desperation due to the Regulatory-Capture that has locked them OUT of the markets. Hell, selling sex is now the new part-time job to pay for University. Thanks Progressive Statists - you've destroyed yet another society. Good on you.
     
  18. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    No we are not living in the 1800's. That isn't the issue. The issue is when we had a minimal government, back before the income tax and the Federal Reserve you like to rail about, when our governance was close to the Libertarian ideal you so love, the fact is debtor prisons were common. And today, with much more government regulation and intervention, debtor prisons no longer exist. Those are the unfortunate facts for you Michael.

    Now what does that mean Michael, "the largest state in the history of humanity"? What is your measuring stick? I don't suppose you have ever heard of a nation called the Peoples Republic of China? Their population is 3 times that of the US and their government is very intrusive and large. They still throw people in jail for speaking or thinking unauthorized thoughts. China has 2 million people policing its internet alone in order to control what its citizens see, hear and think. Using China's numbers, it employs about 30 million people (including state owned enterprises). In contrast,US governments employ about 20 million people and employs no one to police the internet. In Mother Russia, about 3 out of 4 professionals work for the state.

    As previously and repeatedly posted, there wasn't less desperation in the 1800's and earlier years when government intervention and regulation was little to none and publicly eschewed. The history, the facts, just don't support your beliefs.

    Well then you should be able to provide some proofs if what you say were true and you should be able to make a logical case as to why less government would solve perceived problems. But you can't. Every Libertarian scheme ends with an implicit and sometimes explicit " and then magic happens". People will not stop acting like people as Libertarian ideology and Communism require.
     
  19. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Are you insane Joe?
    Are you?
    The US runs the worlds LARGEST prison industrial complex IN HUMAN HISTORY.
    The USA incarcerates more non-violent human beings than ANY other institution IN human history.
    IN HUMAN HISTORY.

    In ALL of recorded human history.

    - Some of the human being Citizens OF / Property Of / Tax Chattel Of the USA are inside a US prison for the crime *GAAAASP* of not paying their debts.
    - Other humans are in prison for *GASP* daring to smoke a f*cking weed. A weed that some of the so-called 'Founding Fathers' actually grew and *GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASP* smoked!

    So, yes, we're not living in the 1800s and IF we had a retained a LIMITED government then we may or may not have debtor prisons in 2015, it's impossible to know. My guess is, not likely. What we DO know we would NOT have is the World's Largest Industrial Prison Complex run by the US Government. That we wouldn't have.
     
  20. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    News Flash Joe, yes, China has about 1 BILLION MORE Citizens living within it's Geopolitical domain. Yet, the USA STILL imprisons MORE of It's Citizens.

    PolitiFact: The most recent study, using data as of May 2011, found there were nearly 2.3 million people in U.S. prisons, the same number Johnson used in his congressional floor speech. A 2010 congressional report said 2.3 million Americans were in prison. The report was based on 2008 data. In the most recent World Prison Population List, the U.S. had more prisoners than any other country. China was second with 1.65 million people in prison.

    Welcome to 'The' USA
    Land of the Fleeced
    Home of the Debt Slave

    The only magic thinking going on here is by you Statists. And it really doesn't matter what kind of State - you'll worship any of them, depending on which you normalized to.

    Lucky you, superstitious nationalist twat-ism appears to be hardcoded in the brain and the only known means of eradication involves thinking - so, no luck there. Thus, its MOAR government and less civil liberties for us. Soon you'll need your State approved Internet ID to log on to the internet and post a comment - you know, because "Freedom Fries". The USA was a historical fluke that happens from time to time, and it's rapidly returning to the norm where the State and It's Representatives determine what the Peon's who live under their "Regulatory" control may or may not do. For example, right now, it's impossible to sell arranged flowers without a State licence in some parts of the USA, you know, because "Terrorism". While it's perfectly legal to give BBQ chicken away, don't you dare sell it because, you know, "Terrorism". Sure, you can sell boiled in ammonia off cuts ground together with wood pulp and died pink, that's "A-f*cking-Okay", but sell unpasteurized organic milk - it's jail for you sucker, because you know, "Terrorism". Oh, and the NSA must record all of OUR once 'Private' communication because "Terrorism". Oh, and the TSA has to anal search you and your phone if you fly, because "Terrorism". Oh yes, and the State has to determine who you can or can not marry, because "Terrorism".

    Don't worry - we're getting much much much more State and we'll lose a lot more civil liberties. So, enjoy the Recovery.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2015
  21. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    I've been to a number of different countries. In some places, people do just dump their trash in the street. It's their culture. They think it's normal to live around trash. Just drop it from the balcony and done is done. In other places, notably Japan, people are out and about voluntarily cleaning the street near the house. Many Japanese get up early, say 4:30 am before work, and go outside to clean any bits of small rubbish that may have blown along the street to land near their house. It's also common to water dirt roads to keep the dust down.

    Multiculturalism means accepting people AND their culture. It's not about 'assimilation'. Assimilation is 'bad'. It's about accepting people - including a predilection for dumping trash off the balcony onto the courtyard. It's ALSO VERY common to do so in many places of the USA to dump trash like so. Very common. It's actually takes a lot of work and effort to develop a culture of tidiness. Lot's work and many generations.

    Oh well, no need to worry about that now. As I said, all the "Free" Progressive Socialism costs a lot more than you think. And, the refugees are NOT going anywhere. So, Germans, you can start getting used to living in a multicultural society (like the USA). The Germany you knew is over, that place doesn't exist. This is the New Germany. Where some people are going to toss their trash on the ground without a second thought about it. I mean, what's the big deal - right?
     
  22. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    3:03 ... and use the sloooow internet it was soooooo bad.....

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  23. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Refugee spending will drive our economy, Germany says

    OMG.... Wow.
    Just Wow.
    These Progressive Socialists have finally taken their Keynesian Cult to the extreme and now live 100% in Magic Thinking land.
    I mean, you can't make this stuff up:
    So, get this, Germans will work, they will forgo spending their hard-earned money purchasing the goods and services they themselves just spent all of their week producing.... No no no... no no no no.... That would make too much sense for Keynesian La La Land.
    No. None of that.
    Instead, they will work AND THEN pay someone else to take their money to consume their goods and services. NOT THEM. They'll have to go without. You know, because "Economy". No, their role is to work. It's the role of the refugees to consume.

    AAAAAHHHHHH hahahahahahahhahaaaaaaaaaa...... Oh, poor Germans. Let's see how that works out for them. I mean, just think of all the "Jerbs" that will be created cleaning up the trash pitched over the balconies. THINK of the prosperity to be had cleaning it all up again!!!

    LOL!!!

    Progressive Socialism, destroying one country at a time, so you don't have to.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2015

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