Organic molecules in space

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by timojin, Sep 1, 2015.

  1. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    What techniques are used to identify molecules in space
     
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  3. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    The method I'm familiar with is infrared spectroscopy.
     
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  5. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    What kind of light source is used and how do you cancel the background ?
     
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  7. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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  8. timojin Valued Senior Member

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  9. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Too much hand waving?

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    Not at all. The methodology is a proven tried and tested means, nothing more, nothing less.
    Since you asked the question, what do you have in mind.
    Of course we also have molecules found on various meteorites.
    Here's some more.......

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_interstellar_and_circumstellar_molecules

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrochemistry


    http://www.ucl.ac.uk/phys/amopp/people/jonathan_tennyson/papers/311.pdf

    8 SUMMARY
    Molecules are widespread throughout the Universe, where the differing local conditions lead to different chemistries. A great variety of molecules, whose number is still steadily increasing, have been identified in space. At present by terrestrial standards, only relatively small molecules have been firmly identified outside our solar system. It would be a mistake to assume from the lack of positive detections that larger molecules do not occur naturally in space. The spectroscopic techniques that have proved so adept at characterizing small molecules in a wide range of locations are not so clear cut for large molecules. For larger molecules, the spectra suffer from not being fully resolved even using high-resolution studies and not being completely characteristic, especially if the molecules exist in close proximity with several similar species. This summary has not considered the molecular composition of the planets in our solar system. Spectroscopic techniques have been extensively applied to these objects, and all the planets with atmospheres have also been visited by unmanned satellites. The discovering of a large number of planets orbiting other stars has put an emphasis on trying to determine the molecular composition of these newly identified bodies. Such studies hold the key to determining whether we are the sole occupants of our galaxy. It can 12 Molecules in different environments thus be assumed that the study of molecules in space will remain a lively one for the foreseeable future.
     
  10. timojin Valued Senior Member

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  11. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Do you doubt that molecules exist in interplanetary/interstellar space timojin?
    Every molecule in your body, every molecule in my body, was spewed forth by stars that came to the end of their lives.
     
  12. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    I am familiar with absorption, emission and reflection , in absorption and reflection you need a a source ( light ) the in emission the chemical is the source .
    for your absorption I assume your black body might be a star and your cell the space between the the star and your telescope and your scanner . I assume the density of the gas is probably very low. and since the telescope have to penetrate the earths atmosphere there might some heavy interference and you probably by some form have remove the background. Then to get a signal from space out of our solar system will
    be low.
    I can go with a similar scenario for emission and I visualize more problems as the source that heats the gas. I would like to know if the many mentioned in wiki come out from meteorites then from telescopic
    finding . I will assume if the analysis is in space vehicles there will be less interference .
    Ok clue me in.
     
  13. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    On space there are millions of conditions . to make small molecules . Miller in the 195x had a one of possible conditions , so he firmed several amino acids and amines and others.
    Your second paragraph is a little confusing . As a star burns out it implodes and produces a large amount of heat, so every organic molecule thing brakes down into gas. and inorganic molecules will react and condense.
     
  14. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    My second paragraph is not my paragraph...It's from the above linked scientific paper.
    But anyway, whatever your doubts, here some more links for you to learn......
    http://www.ipac.caltech.edu/outreach/Edu/importance.html

    http://webbtelescope.org/webb_telescope/science_on_the_edge/beyond_the_visible/


    http://coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/cosmic_classroom/ask_astronomer/faq/obs.shtml


    http://www.ipac.caltech.edu/outreach/Edu/ground.html


    http://www.scienceclarified.com/He-In/Infrared-Astronomy.html

    http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/


    http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/mission

    http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Herschel/The_largest_infrared_space_telescope

    The last two or three links are all about our Space Infrared 'scopes, Spitzer and Herschel.

    The following is on the JWST, to be launched in 2018.
    Science/cosmology and NASA and other space orginizations seem to be handling infrared spectroscopy quite admirably.
    OK, you have now many links that will give you the details far better than I can, so you should be quite able to clue yourself in.
     
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    List of interstellar and circumstellar molecules
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    extracts:

    The first carbon-containing molecule detected in the interstellar medium was themethylidyne radical (CH) in 1937.[6] From the early 1970s it was becoming evident that interstellar dust consisted of a large component of more complex organic molecules (COMs),[7] probably polymers.

    In 2004, scientists reported[10] detecting the spectral signatures of anthracene andpyrene in the ultraviolet light emitted by the Red Rectangle nebula (no other such complex molecules had ever been found before in outer space).

    In 2010, fullerenes (or "buckyballs") were detected in nebulae.[12] Fullerenes have been implicated in the origin of life; according to astronomer Letizia Stanghellini, "It's possible that buckyballs from outer space provided seeds for life on Earth."[13]

    In October 2011, scientists found using spectroscopy that cosmic dust contains complex organic compounds ("amorphous organic solids with a mixed aromatic-aliphatic structure") that could be created naturally, and rapidly, by stars.[14][15][16]The compounds are so complex that their chemical structures resemble the makeup of coal and petroleum; such chemical complexity was previously thought to arise only from living organisms.[14] These observations suggest that organic compounds introduced on Earth by interstellar dust particles could serve as basic ingredients for life due to their surface-catalytic activities

    In August 2012, astronomers at Copenhagen University reported the detection of a specific sugar molecule, glycolaldehyde, in a distant star system. The molecule was found around the protostellarbinary IRAS 16293-2422, which is located 400 light years from Earth

    In September 2012, NASA scientists reported that PAHs, subjected to interstellar medium (ISM) conditions, are transformed, through hydrogenation, oxygenation, andhydroxylation, to more complex organics — "a step along the path toward amino acids and nucleotides, the raw materials of proteins and DNA, respectively".

    PAHs are found everywhere in deep space[24] and, in June 2013, PAHs were detected in the upper atmosphere of Titan, the largest moon of the planet Saturn.[25]


    much much more at.....
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_interstellar_and_circumstellar_molecules
     
  16. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    This is fine , Imagery what you can capture and separate the hotter spots from colder of a particular emission mixture body.
    Imagery does not say much about chemical analysis .
    Please don't misunderstand me it is very interesting work and it should pursued
     
  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    This is science and this works and has been shown to be valid beyond any doubt.
    Or do you have an agenda? What do you suggest?
     
  18. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    No, I don't have any agenda , I know this is science , Should science all the time be accepted and not ask any questions?

    Those nice picture using different wave length they are just saying to me the star is like a black body a heat source and you are filtering out different waves . But in reality it say very little what is there. It tells you something about the structure of the body. It is like looking at the sun with different filter , you might see flare or holes were eruption takes place .
     
  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Don't you? I find that hard to believe.
    You have been given many expert takes on the subject of infrared spectroscopy over many decades and you doubt them all? On what grounds?
    I suggest you read all the links I gave thouroughly and do some more research.
    It's a tried, true and tested discipline.
     
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  20. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    O have worked as an analytical chemist on the ground & worked in research in other area, so I don't take things that are published as a gospel specially if the field is relatively new.
     
  21. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    It isn't new.
     
  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    http://www.universetoday.com/43201/infrared-spectroscopy/

    Infrared spectroscopy is spectroscopy in the infrared (IR) region of the electromagnetic spectrum. It is a vital part of infrared astronomy, just as it is in visual, or optical, astronomy (and has been since lines were discovered in the spectrum of the Sun, in 1802, though it was a couple of decades before Fraunhofer began to study them systematically).
     
  23. timojin Valued Senior Member

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    As for me is what do you do with spectroscopy ? Analysis or lock for massive structure and position of a structure . Remember the post was molecules in space
     

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