Help with English

Discussion in 'Linguistics' started by Saint, Aug 24, 2011.

  1. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,304
    Doesn't want to touch something (be involved with something) even at a distance. Saying is also 'won't touch it with a ten foot pole'
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    I agree. "Were" is appropriate when the event has not yet occurred, or when it is just starting, at a time when it is still possible to hope that the person will arrive--or to be wistful about his apparent absence. This is the conditional mode, although verb modality is rather haphazard in English since we lost most of the German verb paradigms (and many of its other grammatical complexities) during the Norman occupation.

    This event has already occurred (the agreement is already signed), so the past perfect is appropriate: "had been." Again, this is just a faint echo of proper German grammar.

    Nonetheless, these niceties are so arcane that most Americans struggle to get them right... or don't bother at all. So quite a few people would use "were" instead of "had been." Everyone will understand it, and only a pedant like me would consider correcting their grammar--and, after due consideration, would choose not to do so.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Saint Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,752
    the straw that broke the camel's back = the last fatal error ?
     
    paddoboy likes this.
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,543
    Bloody brilliant!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    Not sure if it describes that phrase exactly, but it sure is appropriate sometimes.
    WIKI says this......
    The idiom the straw that broke the camel's back, alluding to the proverb "it is the last straw that breaks the camel's back", describes the seemingly minor or routine action which causes an unpredictably large and sudden reaction, because of the cumulative effect of small actions.

    This gives rise to the phrase "the last straw" or "the final straw", meaning the last in a line of unacceptable occurrences, provoking a seemingly sudden strong reaction.
     
  8. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    It refers to the pre-industrial era when draft animals (horses, oxen, camels, elephants, donkeys, llamas, etc.) were used for carrying heavy loads. Some of these animals were hitched to wagons, carts or carriages which carried the load (food, other commodities, or people), while others simply had the load strapped to their back.

    If I'm not mistaken, elephants, llamas and camels cannot be used to pull wagons for various reasons. So if you use a camel for transporting a load, it will be strapped to the camel's back.

    If your load is a bundle of straw to be used in construction or agriculture, you have to decide how much straw your camel can carry, since they differ in size and strength.

    An unkind owner will try to put as much straw on the camel's back as the camel is capable of carrying. If he overestimates, the result will be that the camel lies down, or even falls over. The phrase "break the camel's back" is a colorful exaggeration. I'm 100% certain that no camel ever had its back broken by having one more straw added to its load.

    But I'm sure many camel owners were bitten or kicked for attempting to overload their animals. Camels are famous for not tolerating cruelty--and their definition of "cruelty" is not very generous.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Anyway, back on topic... "The straw that broke the camel's back" is a metaphor. It means that someone overloaded a process, a machine, etc., and caused it to break down.
     
  9. Saint Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,752
    perfunctory handshake = not a warm handshake?
     
  10. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,527
    If I can use Latin to answer a question about English, "pro forma" = "just for appearances".

    I think perfunctory literally means 'minimally acceptable', but I'd have to consult one or more online sources of ancient wisdom to be sure.

    I always enjoy correction in my use of the language: Please fire away!
     
  11. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    The dictionary defines "perfunctory" as "hasty, superficial, performed merely as a routine duty, indifferent, apathetic, unenthusiastic, devoid of care or interest."

    A perfunctory handshake is one that is performed because it is expected, not because there is any enthusiasm or sincerity.
     
  12. Saint Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,752
    smell a rat = ?
    Why rat?
     
  13. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,304
    Because rats are generally considered to be unsavory creatures. To 'smell a rat' means to suspect something is wrong.
     
  14. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,527
    Saint, if you don't mind my asking, what is your native language and area of origin? Social and geographic context can be a big help in things like this topic..

    I am always fascinated by how words flow from one language to another, and why.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  15. Saint Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,752
    Chinese speaking
     
  16. Saint Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,752
    1. Both the parents and teacher have the responsibility to teach children ethics.
    2. The parents and teacher both have the responsibility to teach children ethics.

    Which is better?
     
  17. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,304
    Either one is perfectly acceptable.
     
  18. Saint Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,752
    Can we simply invent a new word like this?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  19. Saint Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,752
    plebiscite = referendum ?
     
  20. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,357
    Yes.
    From the Latin roots: pleb, plebs - common person; and scitum - decree (which comes from sciscere - to vote for).
     
  21. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    And both are actually not quite correct. "Both" refers to two things or people. The parents and the teacher are three people.

    Nonetheless, everyone talks this way.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  22. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,527
    Can't a set of things be referred to in the singular?

    Both the sheep and and the shepherd must pass the stile.
    Both the goats and the goatherd must pass the stile.

    Do I pass on style?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  23. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    Sure.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     

Share This Page