When lasers are used to blind pilots

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by cosmictraveler, May 29, 2015.

  1. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    They could be deflected away by using Mylar window coatings on the windows in the cockpits.

    Mylar is often used to generically refer to polyester film or plastic sheet. However, it is a registered trademark owned by Dupont Tejjin Films for a specific family of plastic sheet products made from the resin Polyethylene Terephthalate (PET). The true generic term for this material is Polyester Film or Plastic Sheet.

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...vYCoBg&usg=AFQjCNEC88QmvXUeFrnKrtO5gA7TzOeQSA
     
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  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Lasers are visible light. If you deflect lasers you will deflect light. This will reduce the ability of pilots to see traffic at night.
     
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  5. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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  7. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    You do know that there are different shades of tint used with Mylar don't you? One tint in particular is a very light grey which won't impede pilots vision at all. There are others that are on the yellow side which actually enhances night vision. They could make a shutter type or curtain type of window treatment whereby the pilot could raise or lower or open and shut the device that's attached to his window.
     
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    If it doesn't block light, then it won't impede pilot's vision. If it doesn't block light it also won't attenuate lasers.
    Yellow filters pass yellow light while attenuating other frequencies. They reduce visual sensitivity at night since they attenuate visible light. A pilot would have a harder time seeing blue taxiway marker lights through such a filter.

    There are filters that prevent you from losing your night-vision adaptations even when it's bright out. Dark sunglasses work well in a pinch. (As long as you take them off when you need your night vision, of course.)
     
  9. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    My point was that if the correct type of Mylar is used it wouldn't be a problem for the lightest one you can see everything at night easily but it reflects any light that hits it. Again a curtain type or roll down type of Mylar when the pilot is coming in for a landing only would be very useful. I've used it in my own car and I can see perfectly out of all of my windows at night, no impairment at all. Why not try it out and see before you throw this idea away.

    They could easily just put a pair of reflective glasses on when landing so any laser won't bother the pilot.
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    If it passes any light that hits it, it is clear.
    If it reflects any light that hits it, it is opaque.

    You can't have both at the same time.. You can come up with something that reflects _some_ light and passes _some_ light. That would reduce the pilot's night vision a little while attenuating lasers a little. You can also come up with something that blocks all green light but passes everything else. This, of course, blocks green navigation lights as well as green lasers.
    That's when a pilot needs his vision the most, and so would be a bad time to attenuate it.
    It's been tried. There are several films/coatings out there, as well as glasses that filter out (for example) the frequency that green LED lasers use. However this only protects against one type of laser light, and it completely blocks that frequency - so pilots will have a much harder time seeing green lights. And of course it would not block other types of lasers. Because of this, the FAA currently does not recommend them.
    See above. There's no such thing as glasses that block visible light but don't block visible light. They can do one or the other.
     
  11. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    You really think that a light tint reflective pair of glasses would be that dense as to obstruct the vision of a pilot? I have medium tinted windows and have no trouble seeing anything out my windows at night. So if I'm over 70 and have no problems then how can a 50 year old pilot have vision problems with a light tinted Mylar either window or glasses. Also the co pilot could not be wearing anything and they could see what's going on .
     
  12. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think they would Cosmic!

    I agree totally - my car windows are tinted and I can see just fine at night.

    I think that's totally settled - light tinted glasses or Mylar do not interfere with vision much, if at all - visible light passes right through so the pilots should be able to see with no problem.

    Now, if we could only figure out a way to block those darn lasers...

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  13. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    If you are trying to protect yourself from visible laser beams or other forms of hazardous visible light, visible light laser safety glasses are what you need.
    Laser safety glasses that protect from invisible light are often clear or nearly clear, because they do not block wavelengths in the visible spectrum (roughly between 400 and 700nm wavelengths of light). Visible light laser safety glasses, on the other hand, provide protection from lasers that operate in the visible spectrum. Because of this, they cannot be completely clear and still be protective.
    Okay, so maybe it’s obvious to you that laser glasses that block visible wavelengths of light can’t possibly be clear.

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  14. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    Hmmm...

    It looks like you may be onto something there, I wonder why they aren't used across the board? There must be some drawback...

    Laser Protective Eyewear for Pilots
    Laser Pointers have become an increasing threat for our service men and women in such areas as Aviation, Border Patrol, Coast Guard, Local Law Enforcement and Military.

    Both intentional and non-intentional strikes of these high-powered visible blue, green and red lasers have been reported. These laser strikes can cause temporary and debilitating blindness and potentially fatal consequences in situations where sight is necessary, particularly in positions of defense.

    Because of the ever-growing frequency of these incidents, Phillips Safety Products Inc. takes great pride in providing laser pointer protection that not only absorbs the relevant laser wavelengths, but also allows the end-user the ability to see the necessary illuminations from the control panel on an aircraft or vessel or other necessary devices used by all service men and women. Although green laser pointers are most commonly used in these incidents, we have developed lenses that address other possibilities.​

    http://www.phillips-safety.com/laser-safety/laser-safety-glasses/laser-strike-eyewear.html
     
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    What you don't seem to get here is that LASERS ARE LIGHT. (Heck, that's what the acronym means.) If you block lasers you block light. If you don't block lasers you don't block light. If you block light you block lasers. If you don't block light you don't block lasers. You can block specific frequencies - but you are still blocking light, and lasers are available at almost every frequency, so the only way to block them all is to block all light.
    I am a 50 year old pilot, and wearing sunglasses at night (or even twilight) severely degrades my ability to see other traffic when flying VFR.
    Sure, as long as he's not looking out the window - in which case you won't see other traffic anyway.
     
  16. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Here's my question...

    If the pilot is struck and temporarily blinded by a laser... why doesn't the co-pilot take over? I would assume the dazzle-blindness is relatively short-lived?

    @Cosmic - the problem with your suggestion is thus - a laser is a focused, coherent beam of light. The amount of tint/reflection/refraction needed to block a laser is much greater than what would be required to block regular light of a similar strength - thus, to tint the windows enough to actually impede the laser would, as a result, block out much of the Visible Light Spectrum.

    You could, of course, attempt to use filters on the window... but they would be frequency-specific and cause issues of their own (not the least of which being they block that frequency entirely)
     
  17. Bells Staff Member

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