Public School Using a Church for Kindergarten Screening

The inclusion of religious materials in your child's packet is a gross misappropriation of social responsibility. I agree with billvon in that anyone might push beliefs on children, but at the same time the object of a church is to 'bring people to the fold'. There must be an extraordinary temptation to do so by including such materials, such that they might be expected to do so and not be able to resist. They would probably even defend their 'right' to do so, presumably under the Whateverth Amendment. 5th? Whatever.

I can see using church space for that, but maybe not church staffers. Then again, it was probably parents in that church doing so.

 

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But it opens the door. It also gives authority to the church. Children are very impressionable.

 

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The church can have as much authority as they want. (So can the hotel.) And yes, it opens the door, which is a good thing. If a church (or a temple, or a mosque) goes from an evil, scary thing to just a place you have a science class for a few days, then that is a very good thing. Children are indeed impressionable, and if such an experience serves to impress upon them that Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, or hotel managers are just people like everyone else, then they have learned something valuable.

 

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Don't get me wrong, I don't care what you want to believe in the comfort of your own home or church, but when you use the use the kindergarten screening test as an excuse to recruit new members to your cult, I will be a little upset.

 

If it was really a recruitment event in disguise - so would I.

But if a local church offered to allow a school to use their facilities for free for some school function, I would be the opposite of upset - I'd tend to be thankful that someone allowed the school to do the screening for free. I feel the same way about the churches, schools and private homes that volunteer their space for voting, disaster relief or blood drives.

 

Well they certainly took the opportunity to hand out those gift bags, full of Baptist swag. There should not have been any church personnel allowed in the area that the school was using. There is also the issue of religious imagery. I don't want my 5 year old exposed to those images in that way. It is supposed to be a learning environment. They look around and see pictures of some bloody guy hanging off of a cross, what message does that send? I'm just glad that she doesn't know how to read well enough to understand what all of the posters, and other sunday school stuff actually said.

There is no way that there wasn't another place to do this screening. There was just a multi-million dollar renovation done to the high school, which was closer btw. There are any number of unused rooms at any time during the day. There is also a community building, that anyone can rent/use, and a library with more than enough room to accommodate.

I suspect that someone who makes the decision on where to hold the screenings has some sort of affiliation with the church. I am pretty sure that is a violation of the establishment clause.

 

That different religions have different symbols?

What if they relocated to a hotel meeting room instead "to spare the children from seeing religious symbols" - and your child saw a hooker getting out of an elevator? Or they relocated to a community center, and saw a poster advertising help for alcoholics or IV drug users? Are those things better than seeing a cross, or a Star of David, or an image of Buddha?

As I have said twice so far now, a classroom is an ideal environment for learning. If one is not available, places like hotel meeting rooms or churches are good alternatives - if the alternative is to not have that function.

Wonder why they didn't offer their space, then . . . .

Nowhere in the Constitution does it say "no student shall be educated in a church." It does say that we cannot make any laws that respect an establishment of religion. Thus if you tried to get the school to use any venue EXCEPT any local Christian churches, that WOULD be illegal.

 

I didn't say religious symbols. I said imagery, and in a school setting. The rest of your argument is based on assumptions of what could possibly be seen..I suppose that a hooker or a iv drug user could be seen at school as well if they were there picking up their kids.

I wonder why this wasn't held at the high school as well.

Do you have any examples of the courts deciding that it would be ok to use a church as an extension of a public school if other options were available?

 

I am curious...

zgmc, why does this have you so worried? At this age, most children are too young to even understand what religion is (supposed to be) all about... surely you don't keep your kids at home and hide them away from every and all possibly-religious interactions for fear they will spontaneously convert, do you?

Let them grow up and experience the world... if they decide to join a religion, let them make that choice on their own.

I don't really see how this is any different than a TV commercial for a product/politician/anything else

Now, if the church had required them to be baptized before being able to complete the screening, that would be another matter entirely.

 

Im not worried about it in that way. My kid has gone to church with my wife on certain holidays.

It seems innocent enough, until its not. There is no need for public school to have anything to do with a church at all.

 

Several of our local churches host non-church events, including the odd school functions,simply because they are far cheaper than an equivalent stage or venue.

 

If the church is giving out religious materials during the screening process, that is inappropriate. The use of the church must be non-sectarian in intent, at the least: the imagery is something already, but nothing can be done about that, nor should it, really. What if a child from a non-Christian culture were to be swayed by such imagery? I'm certain that it begins that early. It might be all well and good to expose a child to all possible religious interpretations at that age, but there is no guarantee of equal exposure.

https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070825015743AAtbNey

 

My question, I guess... is so what? So what if a child is swayed from one culture to another? Is it the parents "right" to prevent their child from exploring other cultures?

 

Agreed. But there is no guarantee of equal exposure to ANYTHING - and indeed, with religion, equal exposure is impossible. That's not a reason to avoid exposure to all things.

 

I just received an email from the FFRF which included a copy of the letter that they sent to the superintendent of the school district in question. I am having difficulties performing a copy and paste from the pdf file... I will make a few more attempts...

Doesn't look like I will be able to copy any of it. Here is a brief excerpt:

"Holding school-sponserd events in churches raises serious constitutional concerns, especially with young students. The partnership between the District and a Christian church sends a message to impressionable students that the District approves of the church.. Further, the District cannot allow the church to distribute religious materials of any sort to students or parents."

In the pamphlet that the church was handing out it talked about how everyone is sinful and deserving of god's wrath. Pretty nice stuff there.

It is a good thing that there are organizations out there that are willing to help to put an end to these kinds of practices.

 

The U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child provides that states should “respect the right of the child to freedom of thought, conscience and religion.” However, the U.S. is still struggling with this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_ratification_of_the_Convention_on_the_Rights_of_the_Child

So, do you think that children should have the right to religious freedom independent of their parents? Should we protect the child’s right to religious freedom or the parent’s right to choose their child’s religious identity and education?

 

Personally, I think a child HAS to be allowed to find their own religious beliefs... otherwise, it isn't "their" belief.

 

Right, but you won't find many children from christian families that are allowed to find their own beliefs. They are indoctrinated from day one, without a choice. If allowed those kind of Christians will push their beliefs in public schools, which is not acceptable. Here is part of what was handed out.

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Agreed. This is an argument to allow outside religious influences, separate from the religious beliefs of their parents.

 

Convert it to a jpg (or text further down page on right)

http://www.zamzar.com/convert/pdf-to-jpg/