Netanyahu sux

Discussion in 'Politics' started by sculptor, Mar 4, 2015.

  1. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Really, he is playing at politics instead of actually coming up with anything positive and/or workable.

    If he is an example of what the U.S.A. can expect from Israel, then maybe we need to rethink our support of them.
     
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  3. Bells Staff Member

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    Why is he being allowed to attempt to dictate US foreign policy in such a way?

    The US would never allow any foreign leader to have so much say over US foreign policy within the US itself.
     
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  5. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Because Obama doesn't like it, and they (the GOP) loves to hate on Obama. It's probably not illegal.
     
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  7. Bells Staff Member

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    They should stop taking funds from a Government they so despise.

    This was political grandstanding on both sides. The GOP (who applauded Trump at CPAC when he said he would negotiate with ISIS and Iran) and Bibi, who is facing an election in a few weeks. And the US Congress is its patsy.
     
  8. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

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    Netanyahu and Obama are playing the kiss *ss game, who ever kisses more, wins.

    But aside from that, I actually think Netanyahu is a pretty good ruler for Israel.
     
  9. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    The Israel Lobby.

    US politics is chock full of organisations that exist wholly or partly to promote support for Israel as seen from the perspective of Likud: AIPAC, the Anti Defamation League, the Zionist Organisation of America, the Washington Institute for Near East Policy (WINEP), etc, etc. Walt and Mearsheimer wrote a good article on the subject some years ago: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-israel-lobby , followed by a book which expands on the theme.

    The reaction, predictably, was to make the routine accusations of antisemitism and to deny that such a lobby exists, while simultaneously threatening the academic positions of the authors - thus proving it does exist and illustrating how well-connected it is!

    US politicians are invited to affiliate themselves with such organisatons, with the implicit threat of antisemitic accusations and withholding of funding if they decline.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2015
  10. Bells Staff Member

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    I have the book, thank you.

    In this instance, even American Jews were against his coming here to speak because it was inappropriate.

    The timing and the illusion of support this gives him is very political for Bibi back home in Israel. It was, in every sense of the word, a political stunt. Even Israel's security agency did not support his ongoing claims of Iran's immediate threat.

    While he has once again attempted to use the Holocaust to further his own political agenda, this time in Congress, this could end up backfiring terribly for him. Certainly, he is preaching to the fanatics in Israel who would believe anything he says.. After all, he can control and manipulate America..
     
  11. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Well I hope it backfires. The guy is a menace.

    As it happens I do not share the general hysteria about the possibility of Iran getting a nuke. It seems to me that nukes are utterly useless as an offensive weapon. Nobody dares use them unless in extremis, and that would go for Iran as well, given that Israel has around 200 nuclear warheads themselves (acc. Jimmy Carter, who I am quite sure will know). What nukes are is an excellent defensive weapon. (No chance of the US invading N Korea, for example.) So I'm not sure it really matters that much if Iran gets a nuke. Israel has them, Russia has, them, Pakistan has them, India has them, so they are just about surrounded by nuclear powers. Not to mention the threats that have been made by the US and Israel at various time to attack them. If I were an Iranian, I think I would want a nuke, just to avoid that possibility.
     
  12. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    The Face of Betrayal (American Sellout Mix)

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    We in the States have a phrase for that: "Worst Speaker ever".

    Last year, as Republicans celebrated their midterm victory, Rep. Tom Cole (R-OK) explained of his friend, John Boehner, "He’s never wanted to just be speaker. He’s wanted to be a historically significant speaker."

    And in a way, Mr. Boehner is a speaker of great historical significance; he is the worst Speaker of the House in American history. This chapter has been a disaster in slow motion; as I noted elsewhere↱ a couple weeks ago:

    Despite the twists of plot and turns of fancy offered up by Congressional Republicans, the Worst Speaker of the House in American History has just claimed another filthy, battered feather for his garish cap.

    After all, he knew he was committing a huge breach of protocol. He just admitted it. He knew the White House standards about hosting heads of state during election season; his excuse for bypassing the executive is that he didn’t want them to protest or otherwise interfere with his wilful misbehavior.

    The water’s edge principle is flipped; the Speaker of the House is violating protocol in order to bring the international community before Congress to undermine the White House, as well as tamper in Israeli elections. And he has pretty much admitted it.

    This is how low congressional Republicans have sunk. In the question of Mr. Boehner's historical significance, he either presided over this or failed to preside over it. There really is no kindly, or even simply not unkind, description of what he has done.

    To usurp foreign policy from the executive in order to tamper in a foreign election for the sake of hoping to start a war? These are Republican values. These are conservative values. This is what your Republican neighbors voted for in November, every one of them. They do not get to wash their hands of this verging on treason.

    And this is why they believe government doesn't work.

    In their hands, it doesn't.

    And they will do anything to prove it.

    When the face of your party becomes a foreign head of state, you're doing it wrong.

    But, hey, betrayal is just a good, ol'fashioned conservative American value.

    So when you look at your Republican neighbors, forfeiture and capitulation to foreign nations is their cowardice to answer for, every single one of them.

    And this ugly betrayal is the face of the Republican Party.

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  13. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    He isn't "dictating US foreign policy". He's expressing the Israeli government's concern about the US executive branch's apparent acquiescence in Iran's acquiring nuclear weapons. Given Iran's repeated calls for the destruction of Israel, the Israelis see that as an existential threat to their survival. And seeing as how Iran is also working on ICBMs and given what they have said about the US ("the Great Satan"), a nuclear armed Iran would be a threat to us too.

    The US is presuming to make deals over Israel's head that will have tremendous impact on Israel's future security and survival. They are completely justified in objecting.

    But I don't know how much "say" Netanyahu has over US foreign policy. Obama already loathes him and doubtless will be unwilling to consider anything he says. Congress and the US people might be persuadable, but since the last election, Obama has resolved to function as something akin to a dictator, by means of "executive orders".

    Article II, section 2 of the US Constitution says that the President may negotiate treaties, but they must then be ratified by a 2/3'ds vote of the Senate. But apparently this Iran nuclear agreement isnt going to be a treaty, but rather an "executive agreement" or something like that. So that the only one who needs to approve it is Barack Obama.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2015
  14. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Netanyahu and Republicans are both war mongers. Yahu would like nothing better than a US led invasion and occupation of Iran. Yahu is very generous with US blood and treasure.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2015
  15. Bells Staff Member

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    Really?

    So much so that he came to Congress to lecture and berate Americans about their foreign policy?

    Oh? The deal would peacefully ensure that Israel does not obtain nuclear weapons.

    Why hasn't he gone to China and lectured them equally? Or Russia? Germany? France? The UK?

    What would he prefer? No negotiations? Perhaps adopting his policies in Gaza and just bombing Iran and its millions of civilians? He hasn't offered anything to counter what the US, EU, Germany, France, UK, China and Russia are working together in their negotiations with Iran.

    Once again, he has not offered any solution..

    Just a lot of violent rhetoric and paint shop drawings of bombs.

    And peaceful negotiations and monitoring of Iran's nuclear program would provide protection for the US and her allies.

    In short, this is US foreign policy and the US ensuring its protection against a potential enemy. In doing so, it has the added incentive of ensuring Israel's protection.

    Bibi has to recognise that the US is allowed to enter negotiations for its own protection and is allowed to have its own foreign relations policy without passing it by Israel first.

    Actually no. The US is presuming to ensure its own protection from Iran through its own foreign policy ideals.

    The US is its own country and has every single right to determine its own foreign policy.

    Mossad does not agree with Bibi's assessment of the risk Iran poses. So this is purely political grandstanding and his simply trying to 'make the US move where he wants it to'.

    They are objecting to peaceful negotiations... Which beggars belief.

    Peaceful negotiations is the desired method in foreign policy when dealing with a country that seeks to possibly develop nuclear weapons.

    If he objects to what the US is doing so much, he should stop taking the money every year. That's if he really wants to take a stand...

    Well, hopefully none.

    In case you haven't noticed, most people loathe Netanyahu.

    Conservatives might be persuaded, but only in protest against Obama. However the remarks from Americans appears to be one of disgust that a foreign leader is attempting to lecture them on their own foreign policy and trying to dictate it, not to mention using their Congress to further his own political clout in an upcoming election in Israel.

    Which is what that was. A show of force to the people of Israel that he is so strong that he can 'move the US to where he wants it to go'.. However this time, it isn't just the US. But the major players, including China, the EU and many of its countries and Russia.

    I await Bibi flying into China and giving them what for for negotiating with Iran alongside the US in this peace deal.

    If it is a peaceful outcome and the Republicans somehow refuse to accept a peaceful outcome because OBAMA, would you have years of negotiations and the involvement of other countries and the EU to ensure a peaceful means of a non-nuclear Iran, not to mention bringing Iran back to being able to negotiate peacefully rejected for political reasons and simply because the other side do not like Obama?
     
  16. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    Yep. Depressing ain't it?
     
  17. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    or
    The republicans are gambling on driving a wedge between the democrats and the Israeli lobbyist's money and maybe cash in on that in <2 years?

    IF Netanyahu wins?
     
  18. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    By politicizing the US relationship as Yahu and Republicans have done, they may have sown the seeds which could ultimately disrupt more than a half century of almost fanatical US support of Israel. This is a high stakes game Yahu and Republicans are playing.
    I am sure Republicans hope to drive a wedge between the pro-Israel lobbies and Democrats. But that is a very high risk strategy for Israel…not so much for Republicans.
     
  19. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    So, you think that Netanyahu is much more concerned with what is good for his reelection rather than what is good for Israel?
     
  20. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know his motivations, but he may well be sowing the seeds which will irrevocably break US bonds with Israel. Whatever his motivations, he is certainly an immoral scumbag.
     
  21. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Hmmm, is WWIII good for Israel?
     
  22. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    could WWIII be the last of the wars?
     
  23. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I doubt Israel or Iran will be the genesis for WWIII should we ever have one. Mother Putin on the other hand is a different story.
     

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