Proof of the existence of God

Dear colleagues here, I just took some time off to do some thinking on facts and logic on what I am doing here.

My conclusion is that I am here to observe how atheists think and whether they do think on facts and logic.

So, I decided to start with a new approach.

1. Ask an atheist who writes to first put at the top of his post what is his concept of God.

2. Ask him what is wrong with God in his concept of God.


For myself, my concept of God is that He is the creator and operator of the universe and everything with a beginning.

What is wrong with God in my concept? Well, there are things I do not relish with the way He has created and now operating the universe, but His creation and operation is not up to me to evaluate as to tell Him what He did wrong and still doing wrong, but to accept His universe and do with it the best I can; besides I have not created anything and I don't operate anything on the scale He has done and is still doing.

And as the sun is always up there in the sky in the morning, and the moon is there in the sky at night, and my nose is not falling off uncertainly, I see the universe and life to be just right for mankind; of course we can still adjust whatever is possible with us to make our life better and longer and happier.


Okay, atheists here, when you write, just put at the top of your post what is your concept of God, and then what is wrong with God.

Before I forget, do I have proof that God in my concept exists? Yes, certainly, as certainly as I know as I said earlier the sun is in the morning sky and the moon in the evening sky, and my nose is not going to fall off uncertainly.


See you guys again tomorrow.

 

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Why do you think there's only one God?

 

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Not you colleague, Pachomius. Your facts and logic seems riddled with holes, you refuse discussion, you hit reset buttons when errors are pointed out.

 

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Atheist don't believe in God. We depend on theists to define the concept so that we can debate it's existence. The number of concepts of God I don't believe in number in the thousands.

 

I dont have beliefs in a God... but i can understand you havin issues wit the God you believe in.!!!

What i wonder is... why do people bow down to a God who coud end the sufferin children endure... but instead... allows it to continue.???

 

My concept of God is that God doesn't exist.

My nose is still on my face and the Sun and Moon are both still in the sky. They don't "come up" in the morning and in the evening but the Earth does (so far) continue to rotate.

God is is man made concept but only some men continue to believe this fiction.

 

My concept of God might be: my dog.
Do I have proof that God in my concept exists? Yes, certainly, as he is there wagging his tail every morning waiting for me to feed him.
God exists. QED.

Well, that's as useful as your argument, Pachomius, given that you seem to follow the well-trodden cosmological argument as well as undercurrents of the Fine-Tuning argument.
Fallacious arguments seem to be your forte, Pachomius.

But rather than address the issues that are there in your statements you merely pick your needle up and return it to the start of the record.
I keep waiting for you to actually say something worthy of a thoughtful response, yet you keep disappointing.
No longer, as I now have no regard for your abilities to actually put together and advance a meaningful discussion, and thus can not be disappointed in your woeful lack of capacity for discussion, for critical thought, or for "thinki on facts and logic".

 

Someone asks an intelligent question, why should there be only one God?

We will work out the unicity of God as soon as you come to facts and logic as to reach certainty that God in concept is the creator and operator of the universe and everything with a beginning.

For the rest of you guys, here is something for you to think on facts and logic.


Thanks for your posts.

Here is what I have for this morning.

I am still here to observe how atheists think if at all on facts and logic.

Here is my write-up for today:

The trouble with atheists is that they keep on and on and on conflating God with religion.

So, stop that self-misdirection, if you will be any help to mankind, work with them to update and upgrade their religion.

God in concept is the creator and operator of the universe and of everything with a beginning, religion is a drama man draws up to cover everything including God. But wise men know that God in concept is the creator and operator of the universe and everything with a beginning.

If you atheists have any wisdom, go forth and convince mankind that God is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and everything with a beginning, and then to update and upgrade their religion.


What is wrong with my concept of God, namely, the creator and operator of the universe and everything with a beginning?

Not enough evidence?

The sun in the sky in the morning and the moon at night, and your and my nose is not falling off uncertainly, that is not enough evidence?

Just limit yourselves oh atheist to one thing wrong with my concept of God.

After that one thing we will go to your another thing.

If the sun and the moon and your nose are not enough evidence for the existence of God in concept as the creator and operator of the universe and everything with a beginning, tell me what evidence you have that you have a nose in your face?


If you care to reply to my post grounding yourselves on facts and logic, please just start with what's wrong with God in less than 50 words, thanks.



But the most important ting for us all to do in order that we at least put up an appearance of thinking and talking on facts and logic, is for us all to accept that it is logic that when we are certain of the existence of something or we deny its existence, it is logic that we do have a concept of that something.

So, tell me, oh atheists, what is your concept of God, for if you don't have a concept of God then you appear to be like someone blind-folded with his eyes and trying to avoid or reach out to something he does not know anything about: whether it's present or whatever it is: first, take off the blindfold from your eyes.



When you reply to this post, just tell me is it logic that you should have a concept of God to be a rational atheist? Or you insist on being irrational by declaring stubbornly that as you don't believe in God, gods, goddesses, divinities, deities, etc., you need not have any concept of God whatsoever?

That is not being in possession of logic.

We will take up facts next, all this in connection with my advocacy that humans must always seek to think and talk on facts and logic.

So, tell me when you write, is it not logic that you must have a concept of God if you are to be rational in denying the existence of God?

 

Jesus shut up already. You don't listen, you don't understand logic, you are a liar, and now you are just pissing people off. I say you are a liar because your concept of God obviously goes far beyond GCCOEB. Such a "Creator and Operator" tells us nothing about his nature or what he wants from us. Go sneak off to a Christian forum where people don't know what facts and logic are, you will feel right at home. Come back if you sincerely want to understand our position. Who taught you how to think like this? William Lane Craig?

 

@ Pachomius

I thank you'r funy... i chuckled all thru you'r last post (308)... an unlike the feelin of bein stuck in church as a child... bein preeched to here amuses me cause i can easily take it or leave it... an even tho it wasnt a total waste... no need to feed a collection plate here like i did as a child... whare mom woud send me off wit 10 cents... i woud put 5 cents in the money basket an buy a coke wit the other nickle... yep... 6 oz. ice cold bottled coke for 5 cents

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Wow, how old are you?

 

In my 60's... yep... my steelin from God began at age 8... taut to me from the older boys at church... thang is... as good as that coke was... it wasnt realy worth the 90 minutes of boredom settin in church waitin for the preecher to finaly shut the hell up

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How are the sun and moon and the nose on my face evidence for God?

 

Well, in Pachomius' manner of "thinking on facts and logic" he would claim that since "God is in concept the creator and operator of the universe and everything with a beginning" and that the sun, moon, nose all had a beginning, God is therefore their creator and operator. And if God is their creator and operator then God must exist. QED.

Unfortunately he has no real grasp of what are facts, what logic is, nor how to construct a logically valid argument, let alone one that might also be sound.

But he keeps turning that wheel, and out pours yet more drivel from his keyboard, post after post.
He does nothing but preach and troll, and should be treated accordingly.

 

Here is my memo to atheists for this morning.


I see continuously without any interruption that atheists in the web do not do any genuine thinking on facts and logic.

Here, try this experiment, everyone, answer this question, what is the ultimate explanation for the existence of the universe and the nose in our face?

Think on facts and logic, and write according to what you find from thinking on facts and logic.

The question is what is the ultimate explanation for the existence of the universe and the nose in our face.

First, forgive me, get your facts, namely, the existence of the universe and the nose in our face.

Then use logic to think i.e. reason out what is the explanation for these facts?

Now, some atheists will try as usual to deviate from the issue at hand by insisting on what, like, is the meaning of the word to explain something?

Here is the explanation ultimately for the word, explanation, to explain, namely, it is ultimately to find the cause of something that exists at least in your mind, but usually we ask for explanation of the existence of things outside our mind.

If you oh atheists care to dialog with me on what is the ultimate meaning of what is an explanation, then I will be most happy, but and forgive me, when I want to dialog with you on something you will come up again with another deviation.

That is what I notice with atheists in the web, they really do not want to investigate an issue to the very end of explanation, but they will bring in again and again and again things which are obvious as to be certain with every human except the web atheists.

So, let me see if the atheists here will reply simply to my question, what is the explanation for the existence of the universe and our nose?

Or they want to dialog with me on what is explanation.

Or they have made a vow to themselves to no longer dialog with me, because they want to insist that I am into whatever it is that I am into, but the fact and thinking from logic, is that they are just stubborn against doing any constructive dialog with me.

Before I forget, if you are not one of the atheists incompatible* with me from past history here, think on facts and logic on this simple question and write your finding in less than a 100 words.

What is your explanation for the existence of the universe and your nose [think on facts and logic].

See you guys again tomorrow.

*Atheists incompatible with me on past history, you can pinpoint them when you read their posts and you notice that they are not into the issue at hand, and worse, they are not into thinking on facts and logic: like this one, he insists that something like this -- though I can't really get his mind: 1-1=0, so the part namely, 1, is greater than the whole which is 0, but ask him to explain -- when atheists think and write that way, it is impossible to get their intended meaning if there is one at all.

Hehehehehehehehehe.

Annex

{quote]Pachomius, Yesterday at 5:20 AM



Someone asks an intelligent question, why should there be only one God?

We will work out the unicity of God as soon as you come to facts and logic as to reach certainty that God in concept is the creator and operator of the universe and everything with a beginning.

For the rest of you guys, here is something for you to think on facts and logic.


Thanks for your posts.

Here is what I have for this morning.

I am still here to observe how atheists think if at all on facts and logic.

Here is my write-up for today:

The trouble with atheists is that they keep on and on and on conflating God with religion.

So, stop that self-misdirection, if you will be any help to mankind, work with them to update and upgrade their religion.

God in concept is the creator and operator of the universe and of everything with a beginning, religion is a drama man draws up to cover everything including God. But wise men know that God in concept is the creator and operator of the universe and everything with a beginning.

If you atheists have any wisdom, go forth and convince mankind that God is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and everything with a beginning, and then to update and upgrade their religion.


What is wrong with my concept of God, namely, the creator and operator of the universe and everything with a beginning?

Not enough evidence?

The sun in the sky in the morning and the moon at night, and your and my nose is not falling off uncertainly, that is not enough evidence?

Just limit yourselves oh atheist to one thing wrong with my concept of God.

After that one thing we will go to your another thing.

If the sun and the moon and your nose are not enough evidence for the existence of God in concept as the creator and operator of the universe and everything with a beginning, tell me what evidence you have that you have a nose in your face?


If you care to reply to my post grounding yourselves on facts and logic, please just start with what's wrong with God in less than 50 words, thanks.



But the most important ting for us all to do in order that we at least put up an appearance of thinking and talking on facts and logic, is for us all to accept that it is logic that when we are certain of the existence of something or we deny its existence, it is logic that we do have a concept of that something.

So, tell me, oh atheists, what is your concept of God, for if you don't have a concept of God then you appear to be like someone blind-folded with his eyes and trying to avoid or reach out to something he does not know anything about: whether it's present or whatever it is: first, take off the blindfold from your eyes.



When you reply to this post, just tell me is it logic that you should have a concept of God to be a rational atheist? Or you insist on being irrational by declaring stubbornly that as you don't believe in God, gods, goddesses, divinities, deities, etc., you need not have any concept of God whatsoever?

That is not being in possession of logic.

We will take up facts next, all this in connection with my advocacy that humans must always seek to think and talk on facts and logic.

So, tell me when you write, is it not logic that you must have a concept of God if you are to be rational in denying the existence of God?

Pachomius, Yesterday at 5:20 AM

{/quote]

 

Do you even know what the words "facts" and "logic" mean?

 

Don't forget "the nose on our face".

Pachomius, thinking on facts and logic has concluded that "God must exist because I don't understand science".

 

Someone says in another dimension: "The only thing is that astrophysicists tell us that the universe has probably always existed in one form or another AND causeless things happen."


Is that a fact?


Here is a gambit to obtain a joinder with atheists.

Tell me atheists, what other alternatives are possible in addition to these four, one of which is illogical:

1. The universe created itself from nothing.

2. God in concept as the creator and operator of the universe and everything with a beginning created the universe.

3. The universe is a part of the totality of existence.

4. The universe has always existed.


So, let me see what opinions atheists here have as to add another alternative to the four above, one of which is illogical.

 

What created God, or did God create itself from nothing?

 

I don't think that noses on faces have the same explanation as the existence of the entire universe (whatever 'universe' means).

If I was going to look for an explanation for noses on faces, I'd look to evolutionary developmental biology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_developmental_biology

If we are talking about an explanation for the existence of the universe as a whole, I don't think that anyone knows what that explanation is (or even if an explanation exists).

If we interpret the word 'universe' strongly, to mean all of reality, everything that exists, then we face an obvious difficulty. If the universe is the sum total of existence, then nothing can exist distinct and apart from the universe that we could use to explain its being.

It should be clear that this difficulty applies to the hypothesis that God created the universe. If God exists, then God's existence be part of the sum total of being, and hence part of what we are seeking to explain.

I just did. Are you capable of responding intelligently?