What's With Russia?

Discussion in 'World Events' started by joepistole, Nov 11, 2014.

  1. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Yes those are facts I reported. - Not any assertion of mine. Try again to find me saying the words you stuffed in my mouth.

    The second German delegation, some months later, was allowed to go down to the vault level, look thru a door at some gold bars, but not enter the room they were in and not given any serial numbers of the bars, if they had any. BTW, that speculation about Holland turned out to be correct. You continue to lie and distort.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2015
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  3. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I don’t recall anyone calling Russian’s evil? Putin is certainly evil. But that doesn’t mean all Russians are evil. Now you may not find the reemergence of nationalism (i.e. fascism) in Europe disturbing, but most educated and informed people do. No one I know wants a repeat of WWII which appears to be Putin’s game plan. As has been repeated pointed out here and by many other world leaders, Putin is doing the exact same thing Hitler did, even down to using the same excuses to rationalize his aggression. While that fact is lost on you, it isn’t lost on Europeans –especially European leaders. Why do you think Europeans have voluntarily implemented sanctions on Russia which hurt European economic interests?

    The last time around when a similar situation occurred in Europe, European leaders attempted appeasement as you are now recommending. History clearly shows anyone with half a brain that appeasement doesn’t work.

    As for underestimating Mother Russia, I don’t know of anyone who is underestimating Russia. The facts are very clear. Russia’s military has been until just recently in decline. Even back in the days of the Soviet Union during the zenith of Russian military power the US Navy alone had the ability to destroy the entire Russian naval fleet in a matter of minutes. The Russian/Soviet Navy has never been a deep water navy. The Russian Army has had and continues to suffer from a number of problems. In conflicts American military forces have been able to slice through modern Russian military hardware like a hot knife on butter.

    Russia’s only claim against Western military power rests in a set of aging nuclear missiles and bombs and bombers. The bombs and bombers can be destroyed rather quickly. They are easily identifiable and slow moving, all of which makes them sitting ducks to Western forces. Mother Russia is still focusing on antiaircraft missile systems whereas the US has moved on to antiballistic missile systems and is how deploying lasers on land, sea and air based military hardware. And Russian military hardware has never been stealthy nor has it ever been technically advanced when compared to Western hardware.

    Russia is vastly out gunned no matter how you want to look at it. Its economy is puny and vulnerable. It has only a fraction of the troops the US has at its disposal. The West has more and better trained troops than Putin has and Western troops have more and better hardware as well. So any military conflict Russia may get into with the West will not end well for Mother Russia and Mother Putin.
    Oh, well that is interesting. You have contradicted yourself. You said in your previous post Ukrainians and the US didn’t have a right to revolt and replace their government. So set your ad hominem and other illogical arguments aside, which is it? Do people have a right of self-determination or not? If people have the right of self-determination as you claim to believe, then they have the right to replace their government. In democracies leaders who violate law can be removed from office through an impeachment process. Your beloved Yanukovych was impeached by a duly elected parliament and charged with murder and embezzlement. Yanukovych fled the country and into his beloved Mother Russia.

    As for breathing, who is stopping you? And if my criticisms are childish and misapplied, then you should be able to make a reasoned case for that accusation which doesn’t rely upon illogical arguments. But you can’t.
    Where did I say “Russian citizens is a slave”? I didn’t. You are making stuff up again. You are using straw man arguments (i.e. another illogical argument). I’ll repeat what I said for your edification. I said, “Russia isn’t entitled to enslave Ukrainians”. And it isn’t. Ukraine isn’t Russian territory. Russia isn’t entitled to rule over Ukrainians, Georgians or any other country.
    Perhaps you should take your own advice. And while you are at it, perhaps you should read up on the “whole history of the CIA” and you might then know the “whole history” of the CIA has not been overthrowing democratically elected governments.
    The game plan is several fold, one to draw a line for Putin, to let him know it isn’t acceptable for him to invade, occupy and annex neighboring countries as he has done with Georgia and now Ukraine. We know from history appeasement doesn’t work with the likes of Putin. Two, the plan is to make Putin’s military aggression as expensive as possible. Sanctions degrade Putin’s ability to rule and make war and that is the point. Putin has already lost a number of military contracts. Ukraine may well become Putin’s Afghanistan. Who armed the Afghanis?
     
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  5. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    YOU are being very disingenuous BillyT. We had a very long discussion on this matter in which you attempted to rationalize you claims about the Federal Reserve. You keep ignoring inconvenient facts like your statement, "Much US´s gold is owned by others like Germany, or leased out. Why Germany must wait >5 years to get it back to Germany. Why no US gold audit for 6 decades!" http://www.sciforums.com/threads/th...r-more-worse-news.105212/page-30#post-3054468

    Where did the US tell Germany it must wait 5 years to get its gold back from US Federal Reserve gold vaults as you claimed? You went on to explain the US was stalling repatriation of Germany's gold because the gold could be delivered quicker than 5+ years, pointing out Germany already had the storage vault prepared. The fact is the US never told Germany it had to wait 5+ years to get its gold deposits back. Germany set the schedule for repatriation of its gold reserves. It wasn't the Federal Reserve. And contrary to your stated claim the gold deposits had been recently audited.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
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  7. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Much of the gold in the US does belong to others. That at Fort Knox, assuming it is there and not leasted out, is US owned:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    A small part of the 98% NOT owed by the US. No one knows how much gold is at Fort Knox or who owns it - US government claims it does (They never lie to the people, do they?)
     
  8. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    Really? Forget GDP's and industrial output, the gold trade and other currency schemes are what will ultimately determine the world's fate and sink the US economy? No gold = Joe Pistole loses his job and has to sell his home, because what good is Joe Pistole to the world if there's no gold to speculate on? Well not to worry, that's why we keep James Bond on constant standby, and Fort Knox has electrified bars just in case Oddjob decides to make an appearance.
     
    joepistole likes this.
  9. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Vladimir has gone missing. Putin has gone missing! He cancelled meeting And vanished. Folks have speculated it's the result of a palace coup. Others think his mistress had a baby. But Putin doesn't strike me as the caring type. And some folks think he has had a serious health problem and left the nation to seek treatment.
     
  10. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    Hopefully his carcass is rolled up in a carpet stuffed in someone's trunk.
     
  11. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    too soon after the assassination of opposition leader Boris Nemtsov, that drawing some sort of association to Putins disappearance is unavoidable yet appears to be distinctly missing in the press IMO
    He is probably in a "safe house" with an assassination threat hanging over him... ( just guessing )
     
  12. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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  13. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Well the guy has 20 houses, 4 yachts, and 58 aircraft all on a salary of 80 thousand dollars. Putin is worse than Saddam was in this respect and with any luck will share Saddam's fate. Putin has so many houses he doesn't need safe houses. That is pretty good for a guy until just recently only made 80 thousand dollars a year.

    We will see if Putin resurfaces today. Last week he rescheduled some of his meetings to today. So we will see if he shows up. It's interesting to speculate. But it also shows how Putin dependent the Russian government has become. It kind of reminds me of Saddam Hussein. They are even painting Putin's portraits on walls.

    http://www.bornrich.com/vladimir-pu...yachts-58-aircraft-20-homes-75000-toilet.html

    It is also interesting that his press people have gone to extraordinary efforts to cover up his absence by attempting to pass off old pictures as new. His press people are actively trying mask his disappearance. The question is why? Why is Putin's absence worth covering up?

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/13/opinions/ghitis-putin-where-is-he/index.html
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2015
  14. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Putin finally, admits he planned the invasion and annexation of Crimea days before the invasion and annexation. All those little green men who magically appeared in the night who he first denied were his, now he admits he lied and says they were his troops after all.


    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31796226
     
  15. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I think that one of the strangest things is that there appears to be no successor planned for Putin, nor deputy to fill in when he is unavailable.
     
  16. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    A successor or a deputy who could fill in for Putin would be a potential threat to Putin's absolute power. He'll have none of that just as Saddam Hussein had none of that. One of the things I find disturbing is the rise of the cult of Putin. Saddam had a similar cult and Kim Jong-un has a similar cult. Putin's image is being painted on buildings, clothing, etc. Unfortunately, Russia has a long history of cult leaders. Dictatorships usually do, and it never ends well.

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2014/10/vladimir-putins-birthday
     
  17. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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  18. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Putin announced new military operations and put his entire northern fleet on alert, not that it matters because it isn't significant as a military force of about 17 ships a portion of which are not operational. Russia's Northern fleet consists mostly of antiquated diesel submarines with an antiquated air wing and marines. It has three Typhon class subs, two of which are not operational.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/16/europe/russia-arctic-military-exercises/index.html

    What strikes me is that he seems to think minesweepers are important elements of his fleet. A war with NATO will be over long before he can deploy is minesweepers. And frankly, I don't think the West would bother deploying mines in the region. As mention, any war with Russia would be quick and decisive. Why deploy something you will need to clean up days later. Two, NATO has something better than mines to freeze up Russia's Northern fleet, it's called Winter.

    It in addition to his previous military adventurism leads me to believe Putin isn't a very good military strategist. Or all this military posturing could be mostly for political posturing - mostly for domestic consumption. By stirring the pot of militarism and nationalism and ensuring Russians have plenty of vodka to drink, Putin may be using nationalism and alcoholism to strengthen his hold on Russian political power.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2015
  19. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Undisclosed US sources say they believe Putin had a "severe" head cold. All this is reminiscent of the Cold War days when Soviet leaders went missing. Reports are coming in that Russian troops in Ukraine are being decimated and being forced to form ad hoc reorganizations on the battlefield.

    Given the unrest reflected in the recent Moscow protests, the sinking economy, and more battlefield deaths in a country he isn't supposed to be in, things are heating up for Mother Putin at home.
     
  20. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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  21. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I think you may be underestimating the consequences of the assassination of the opposition leader near the Kremlin approximately 9 days before Putin disappears from public show and the ramifications of having a nation the size of Russia with out a credible vice president.
    a number of points. ( correct me if I got them wrong )
    • The assassination was highly skilled and carefully planned. ( very highly skilled would be my opinion )
    • The assassination was planned to be just outside the Kremlin deliberately to demonstrate a point that every one including Putin is vulnerable.
    • Putin takes control of investigation ( inappropriately due to potential conflicts of interest accusations)
    • Arrests are made. Accusations of "torture for confessions" are immediate. (A cover up would be the conclusion reached)
    • Putin disappears.
    Scenario 1
    If The Kremlin was responsible for the assassination, which would most likely be the accusation, then planned retaliations would have been triggered by those who are aligned with the opposition but not necessarily the opposition itself.
    Putin is in serious risk and he needs to disappear to allow time for his security teams to secure the situation.

    Scenario 2
    If the Kremlin was not responsible for the assassination then the same as above (1) applies but as far as Putin is concerned the situation is much worse.
    Because taking out the opposition leader first and then the President second would leave the country entirely leaderless and open to revolution. Boris Nemtsov ( the assassinated ) opposition leader, was effectively the potential future President if Putin was removed.

    Suffice to say Putin has created many enemies and many of which would love to see insurrection in Russia.

    Just thoughts...
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2015
  22. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I don't disagree. You have good reasons. But we really don't know why Putin disappeared for 11 days. His economics minister came out today and predicted the sanctions would be in place for another 2 years. Sanctions are hurting Russia. Russia's economy contracted and will contract more in the coming days, months and years. It is likely Russia will receive another debt downgrade in the coming quarter. Oil prices will likely continue to fall, especially if there is agreement with Iran. A peace deal would allow Iran to dump another million barrels of oil per day on the market though not all at once. It will take time to bring that production on line. And then there is the small matter of body bags and disabled soldiers being sent to Moscow from Ukraine - the place where Russian troops are not supposed to be. By some estimates, more than 2,000 Russian soldiers have already come home in body bags and that number is only going to go up. And if 2,000 Russians have come home in body bags, many more have come home injured and disabled.

    http://news.yahoo.com/body-bags-russians-reflect-ukraine-war-224533171.html

    Putin's best hope is to keep Russians drunk and ignorant. Nationalism will keep Russians all fired up for a while. But nationalism won't pay their bills and it won't put food in their bellies, nor will it care for the disabled vets or bring back the dead.
     
  23. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Yes.. if Putin is attempting to pull the wool over peoples eyes ( which he appears to be doing) it will all soon be revealed because one thing you can't hide too easily are body bags. The longer he stays engaged in Ukraine the more body bags and thereto exposure.
     

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