Castro: Good or Bad?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by RedStar, Jul 20, 2012.

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What is your opinion of Fidel Castro?

  1. Overall positive

    43.8%
  2. Overall negative

    56.3%
  3. I don't care/ I don't know

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. arauca Banned Banned

    Messages:
    4,564


    Does isolation have anything to do ?

    Cayman Island, Puerto Rico, Bermuda, Costa Ricas, Panama have a higher life expectancy then Cuba.

    If you look UN life expectancy at birth , you will see the ex Soviet Block have a relative life expectancy compared to the west. I think Cuba is a special case ,
     
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  3. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    I wonder if the houses and ranches are also 'for the people'?

    The ex-Castro agent had smuggled out of Cuba six hours of video tapes showing some of Castro’s real estate properties, including some 45 residences which are for the exclusive use or at the entire disposition of the Commander in Chief; as well as ranches, private hospitals and, even a film museum and another museum hosting all the gifts Castro has received from foreign dignitaries visiting Cuba.

    Shortly after the disclosures by Del Llano, in the same TV program the Cuban-American journalist Maria Elvira Salazar interviewed the ex-Cuban Minister of Economics Arturo Guzmán Pascual, who attributed to Fidel Castro a fortune in excess of “1.2 billion dollars”, which according to Forbes Magazine places Castro the among the richest government rulers in the world. And to boot, an ex-bodyguard of the Cuban dictator, Carlos Calvo, confirmed the statements made by Pascual and Del Llano. Fidel Castro who stepped down from total power in 2006, due a seri0us intestinal illness, has often denied such charges.


    [Source]
     
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  5. arauca Banned Banned

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    How do you think Russia got so many Billionaires, they probably were all party members
     
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  7. Grumpy Curmudgeon of Lucidity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,876
    arauca

    Bingo! That and/or criminals. Communism breeds them just like unrestrained Capitalism in Democratic countries does. Oh, the irony.

    Grumpy

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  8. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    9,879
    You'all don't get it. History will absolve him.
     
  9. Emil Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,801
    Bad, not good.
     
  10. RedStar The Comrade! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    462
    I don't hate Americans, only American politics. America has the lowest class consciousness in the developed world. America clings to feudal institutions, and feudal ideas. America presents history as black-and-white. America has a history of warmongering and corruption.

    I'm sorry that I don't like any of that. If the Soviet Union were still around, the Iraq War and all the other rubbish wars initiated by the US recently would never have happened.

    It was only under the leadership of Castro and other revolutionaries that all of this was possible. Did you know Nelson Mandela and Fidel Castro are actually good friends? What does that say?

    That money didn't go to the Cuban people.

    Nobody from any bank has actually ever confirmed this story, and it's almost certainly propaganda. At any rate, even if it were true, it'd diminish my respect for Castro, but not my support for socialism in Cuba. And are you ever going to respond to my posts in the other thread; you know, the ones where I provided sources?

    Cuba Wins Broad Support at UN Human Rights Council

    http://21stcenturysocialism.com/art...support_at_un_human_rights_council_01815.html

    Fun fact: Cuba has the highest literacy rate in the world

    Nelson Mandela on Castro and Cuba:


    It doesn't need to. The people who see Cuba or Castro as "evil" are in the minority in the world. The only reason they matter is because among them is the United States.
     
    sandoval10 likes this.
  11. sandoval10 Registered Member

    Messages:
    4
    Is Cuba better off without Fulgencio Batista? Are Cubans living better with Fidel Castro? No revolution is seamless. While the Batista government ran a crony operation from the parking meters to the Casino partnership with the Mob, it was only a matter of time before the masses would have removed him. Just look at what happened in the streets of Havana and other cities on that night in January of 1959. Euphoria. Could Castro have done things differently? Of course, even Castro admitted such. In spite Americas phobia and complete fear of Communism, lead to one of the most despicable notional foreign policy blunders of America. Now it’s time to get back to what is the right thing to do. NORMALIZE RELATIONSHIP.
     
  12. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,874
    I agree the relationship should be normalized. The current policy isn't helping anyone. It's not like we have anything to fear from Cuba. We should be talking to all countries.
     
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  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    How much of the net value of the US military and national park system did they claim was owned by the US President?

    I'm not sure where the money in Swiss bank accounts is actually located, but I'm pretty sure that location has never been in Cuba.

    The island most similar to Cuba in its origins, history, geography, etc, is Haiti/Dominica. But in comparing, we must keep in mind that in addition to the advantages of all that capitalist - friendly government and freedom etc, Haiti/Dominica has not been blockaded economically by the world's richest and most powerful country for fifty years. So the soaring prosperity of the happy residents of Haiti/Dominica, compared with the grinding misery of the Cubans, needs to be calibrated a bit to allow for the extra obstacles faced by the Cuban government - being blockaded by the United States is no joke.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2015
  14. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,874
    So, all in all, you feel Castro has done a good job?
     
  15. sandoval10 Registered Member

    Messages:
    4
    That depends on who you ask? Ask the dark skin Cubans who were subjected to abject poverty and now the ratio of educated Medical doctors and researchers far surpasses the United States in per capita. I’d say Castro has been a force for good for the majority of Cubans. Have they been hurt by the sanctions paced by the US. Yes, of course. Now ask the land owners who owned the sugar cane fields and made their fortunes on the backs of the working Cubans, or Corporate producers like Bacardi Rum, Allied Chemical Corp. Rivera Casino, Tropicana Casino, Hilton International, and on and on all of which were either owned in whole of heavily invested by the likes of Santos Traficant, Lucky Luciano, Myer Lansky..et all. Yes Castro was not good for them. After fifty years, it’s time to stop pandering to the far right single issue Miami Cuban Republicans. Let it go…
     
  16. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,874
    What about anyone who owned anything when Castro took over? Are you against anyone owning anything? Most people were not allowed to leave after Castro took over but if you owned a house, small piece of land, had a decent job...they could leave as long as their forfeited their property.

    Are you suggesting that today more "brown skinned" people own more property than before?
     
  17. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    33,264
    I am Cuban, born and raised in Cuba. I live in the US today but i truly know what is like to live there and how the majority of Cubans think about Fidel and the government. The person you selected as best answer has no idea what he is talking about. If Cuba is so great, and people are far much happier over there than here why doesn't he moves to Cuba? Why doesn't he leave his "mediocre" life behind here in North America and join the club of happy people that awaits him there?

    The real truth is that there are still people that support the government but the vast majority does not. It is true that at the beginning of Fidel's regime the majority of the country supported him and wanted to be rid of Batista but no one had any idea of hell hole that he would turn the country to be. He made false promises and denied relentlessly being a communist, to only a few years later declare the country a communist state!!!

    Today most Cubans are unhappy with the conditions they are forced to live in. They are NOT allowed to leave the country, there are ONLY a few ways in which they ca do so; winning a visa to move legally to the US (that's how I am living in the US today), to be invited or claimed by someone here in the US or another country, or to be a legal citizen of another country like Spain (many of them acquired citizenship of Spain because their grandparents were Spanish) but no Cuban can EVER buy an air ticket to visit another country or go anywhere out of their wishes.

    If Cubans are so happy in Cuba why are so many of them risking their lives making handmade boats and rafts to try to reach US land? Also, Cubans inside the island cannot openly talk about opposing the government, Cubans have no freedom of speech, or media or ANYTHING. I grew up in Cuba and my family and I NEVER liked the government and always dreamed about getting the hell out! and just like us, i guarantee you that at least 80% of the Cuban population thinks like us if not more.
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...6WgoAM&usg=AFQjCNGYC3iX1CgxE_2DYFPCtlxDDWY8sQ



    Cubans today earn a monthly salary of about £12, whether they are a doctor or a roadsweeper. They face rationing and a lack of basic economic freedom.

    They can buy a house, but they cannot sell it. They can vote for any political candidate they choose, as long as that person is a communist.

    If Cubans display any signs of anti-communist subversion, such as being unemployed or drunk, they can be jailed for 'dangerous' anti-revolutionary behaviour.

    There are no visible signs of a counter-revolution brewing but the desire for change is evident. Fidel is no longer in power but remains Father of the Nation. He lives in semi-retirement in an enclave of Havana filled with ornate colonial mansions nestling on wide, tree-lined avenues. It's a far cry from the jungle lair of his revolutionary days.


    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...6WgoAM&usg=AFQjCNHhMzeGu5WQxVRotH2nJvfNaOlC8Q
     
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  18. sandoval10 Registered Member

    Messages:
    4
    Is it that simple? Either your with us or against us? I never suggested the Cuban government is perfect by any means nor am I suggesting the United States of America is a panacea and the answer to all of mankind’s dreams of utopia. Warts and all, I love my country and want to see my country move towards a more just and honorable society just as most Cubans do. I am not seeing 11,200,000 boats headed for Miami either. We don’t live in a world of absolutes. Fifty years ago in the glow of the Revolution, things happened that were not pleasant. Cubans were given a choice to leave and that choice included forfeiture of property. There were no mass firing squads for Cubans wishing to leave as the right wing wanted us to believe. For fifty years we have given Cuban defectors special privileges such as being allowed to purchase Cuban cigars or send money back to their families. I’d like a fine cigar, but then again I’m not special. The rules for Cubans are different from any other country when it comes to illegal immigration. We embrace Vietnam who was responsible for the lives of over 57,000 Americans and their atrocities pale to anything Castro was responsible for. Our leaders walk holding hands with the Saudi Arabian leaders while they deny basic rights to women and import Islamic terror throughout the world. Cuba has no public beheadings of women for adultery, yet we embrace those dictators. Fifty years of unequal treatment to a country that has not killed a single American in combat is enough. Why is it that America is the only country in the world that does not include Cuba as a vacation destination? Yeah, we are right and the entire world is wrong. I just say, it’s time to quit pandering to a selected disgruntles few who happened to amass a sizable voting block with a single issue and nothing more. How does that benefit the rest of America?
     
  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    Compared with the governments of Haiti/Dominica over the years? Oh yeah.

    And without the supposed advantages of US help and alliance, in fact in the teeth of US blockade and sabotage? Why yes.

    On the evidence, if any small country is facing the choice of imposing a Castro on themselves or a Leader allied with the United States, the Castro would be the more sensible option. Look at the consequences.

    Why don't they just go to Haiti? It's a lot closer and safer, and it has all that economic freedom and stuff.

    Nobody's going to arrest you for being unemployed or drunk in Port au Prince. So where are the hordes of Cuban immigrants?
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2015
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  20. youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,830
    Fidel Castro is a brilliant man and getting back with US is a mistake.
     
  21. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    Oh yeah, a brilliant man who has led his people into poverty.

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    It takes a genius to lead a people into decades of poverty. Well if that is your standard, yeah Castro is a brilliant man. And one wonders why Russia remains a poverty stricken outcast nation, I think the answer is pretty obvious. So why are you living in the US if you like poverty so much?
     
  22. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    In point of circumstance, Castro led the Cuban people out of poverty rather than into it.

    And people suffering this or that hardship while being blockaded and sabotaged by the world's most powerful nation right on their border is no mark against a government - it takes an unusually competent government to accomplish what Cuba's government has accomplished since 1960, and "genius" may not be too strong a word for those centrally responsible.
     
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  23. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,198
    It is interesting to note the difference between Castro's Cuba and the USA in terms of medical service and production of doctors. Like almost all the civilized world, except the US, basic medical care is a right - "free" to the patient (but in his tax bill). Huge buying of drugs via negotiated prices makes the cost less than half what they are in the US. There are no medical insurance companies making profits. Quality of care is a weak function, if at all, on how fat the patient's wallet is. likewise the on salary doctors can take 15 minutes or occasionally even more examining you with no loss of pay. US doctors use assistants so typically spend less than six minutes with the patient - longer cost him / her money.

    Certainly Cuba trains several times more doctors than it needs. On per capita base the largest group that helped get Ebola under control. Even Brazil has a few dozen Cuban doctors helping to deliver it free medical service. In contrast, the AMA has gotten almost all, if not all, state legislatures to require that the AMA must to certify the "need" for a new medical school, which I don't think they have ever done. The AMA is by far the most successful union holding doctor fees high by restriction of the doctor supply. Why total cost to society, part paid by patent and part by tax payer (plus the high cost of medicine / drugs) has American paying at least twice what Europeans or Canadians do for care that delivers 2 to 3 years LESS life expectancy

    Before Castor, the MAJORITY of Cubans never, not even once, had service from a doctor in their entire life! Many poor Americans get medical service only when in an advanced state of illness and their friend who has car, drops them at a hospital's emergency door. That make their medical cost to society more than a dozen times more than it needed to be if medical care was free to them earlier. I have had two major operations in Brazil with a total of 7 nights in hospital bed to recuperate from the surgery - cost to me for all that was zero.

    I admit not all neighborhood clinics are as good as desired, and most have only a doctor in attendance except at peak load times (then 2 or 3) and also used highly trained nurses, etc. I am lucky - don't need to go to my local one, as most do, but do so for simple things as it is less than 4 minute walk. I can go to one of the best in South America, as Brazilian wife was professor there - in the university that trains doctors. My main doctor speaks perfect English with me. - He did his residency at Johns Hopkins hospital and stayed on staff there 8 years. He is an expert in laparoscopic surgery - did one of my operations that way.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2015
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