Does being Jewish have any meaning outside of religion?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Seattle, Jan 17, 2015.

  1. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    What he cares about is whether or not they are Ashkenazi.
     
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  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Or Sephardic, or Mizrahi. Most likely he would just ask them if they were Jewish.
     
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  5. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    They could say "yes" but be from Indonesia and that wouldn't be a helpful thing to know.
     
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Most Jews are not from Indonesia, which is why it's helpful.

    I have to wonder why you asked this question if you had already answered it in your mind, and will brook no dissent.
     
  8. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    I am not dismissing dissent. I wanted to see what the main arguments were in case there was some aspect that I hadn't considered.

    I'm not trying to be difficult about this. It does seem to me however that most people have a different standard when arguing this question than when considering similar or comparable situations.

    You have comparable situations whether many people are the same race and many people share certain culture where you don't commonly hear the same concepts applied.

    There's not so many non-religious Baptists identifying as Baptist who feel that being a Baptist is a race because many Caucasian's are also Baptist and where there is a certain common culture.
     
  9. Sylvester Registered Senior Member

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    It does make a lot of sense. I think you have to experience what "culture" means. It is definitely a culture and a very good one.

    Some of the best parties i been to were Jewish...Bar Mitzvahs, weddings etc. The thing is it is a matriarchal system so you can trace their roots through their mothers but also the father if the child desired to be raised in the normal traditions and it is a choice too. But again you have to understand there are different types like orthodox, reformed etc. Even then, the orthodox are just more adherent to traditions. HTH
     
  10. Bells Staff Member

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    Yes, it would be silly to say that Baptists are a race. Because then you would be looking at race as a social construct.

    Jews are a "race" in the sense that the majority share genes, if you will, that show their ancestors originated from a particular region of the world. Jews are not the only ones who share these particular markers.

    The article Billvon linked explains it quite well.

    Boiled down to its essence, race equates to “region of ancestral origin.”

    Religion in that sense, should not matter. Sadly for some it does.

    For example, those genetic markers and predispositions to certain diseases that so many Jews share, are also shared by many Palestinians.

    The DNA that tightly links Ashkenazi, Sephardi and Mizrahi, three prominent culturally and geographically distinct Jewish groups, could be used to support Zionist territorial claims — except, as Ostrer points out, some of the same markers can be found in Palestinians, our distant genetic cousins, as well.

    The reason for this is simple.

    On the male side, or male genetic line, if you will, the similarities between people originating from that region are exceptionally strong. They are not as strong on the maternal side. Hence why they share so many, but not all.

    Another team, lead by Almut Nebel at the Hebrew University, Jerusalem, took a closer look in 2001. They found that Jewish lineages essentially bracket Muslim Kurds, but they were also very closely related to Palestinians. In fact, what their analysis suggested was that Palestinians were identical to Jews, but with a small mix of Arab genes – what you would expect if they were originally from the same stock, but that Palestinians had mixed a little with Arab immigrants. They conclude:

    We propose that the Y chromosomes in Palestinian Arabs and Bedouin represent, to a large extent, early lineages derived from the Neolithic inhabitants of the area and additional lineages from more-recent population movements. The early lineages are part of the common chromosome pool shared with Jews (Nebel et al. 2000). According to our working model, the more-recent migrations were mostly from the Arabian Peninsula…

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    In 2008, a more sophisticated analysis was published that made use of whole mitochondrial DNA sequences. They found no evidence for the genetic bottle necks that indicate founding mothers in the large Jewish populations. Instead, they found a complicated picture with a very diverse gene pool suggesting intermarriage both with local populations and other Jewish groups.

    The overall conclusion is that the female Jewish line deviates a lot more from the Palestinian heritage than the male line, but the heritage is still there.

    Hence why they share some of the same markers.

    Being able to understand this is exceptionally important, not to view race as a social construct or for political value or gain, but to understand it for medical reasons in particular. It has nothing to do with religious superiority or even racial superiority. And in a broader context, it is a way to trace our links to our ancestors and from an archaeological perspective, it helps us understand the history of homo sapiens as a whole, because it helps us understand our origins.

    This does not just apply to Jews and Palestinians, but for understanding race as a point of "region of ancestral origin" because in some cases, it can mean the difference between life and death in the medicine and treatments doctors prescribe.

    Certainly, some will want to and do to use such genetic distinctions for political or religious gain, but they would be wrong to do so.
     
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  11. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    Yes. But Christianity isn't exactly (intended to be) an ethnic religion. Judaism is.
     
  12. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Strange that you say that when there are Black, Chinese, Russian, Indian Jews so where do you think all of those people come from, one ethnic group?
     
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  13. Photizo Ambassador/Envoy Valued Senior Member

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  14. Hapsburg Hellenistic polytheist Valued Senior Member

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    They all contribute towards the Jewish ethnicity, by participating in its culture and practising its customs.
     
  15. Photizo Ambassador/Envoy Valued Senior Member

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