Reality is Time Symmetric

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Spellbound, Jan 22, 2015.

  1. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,454
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,549
    One could ask: "Do dimensions exist?" But that sounds like a question for philosophers to argue over and not something that should trouble science, I guess.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,973
    some individuals on this topic are only speaking from their low rated community college philosophy instructor's anthropocentric nonsense.
    and yes dimensions do exist, is it not obvious ?
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,454
    Well I certainly think they do, in that we find we need 3 dimensions of space plus one of time to measure what we observe in the physical world. I mean , if you start saying "space doesn't exist" to people in the pub, you are going to get funny looks. Mind you, I suspect some of our contributors have had to get used to getting funny looks from people in the pub……….

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  8. QuarkHead Remedial Math Student Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,740
    Anyway, as I am just about to go to the pub (care to join me?) I anticipate some "funny looks" with the following simple choice

    1. Something exists, so let's build a device to measure it. In this case respectively time and clock

    2. Let's build a device that measures something that may or may not exist.In this case respectively clock and time

    I know where I stand on this

    OI!! Are you looking funny at me mate?
     
  9. Farsight

    Messages:
    3,492
    Light goes slower. Along with all electromagnetic processes. And nobody is proving Einstein wrong. See this:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!




    I do. So did Einstein. You can "condition" it. You can stress it. You can curve it.

    That it does. In some science fiction move where some guy has a gizmo that stops time, what it actually stops is motion.

    I know you're not talking to me but: no. A field is a state of space.

    Things move. Sh*t happens. That's it.
     
  10. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,973
    it's wise just to ignore farsight. this is obviously far advance for him, you can tell by his posting of that same einstein" ideas and method supplement".
     
  11. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,543
    The local speed of light is always measured at "c".
    You are once again twisting and taking what Einstein has said, out of context.
    From any remote FOR, light may "appear" to be going slower, when in actual fact it has a longer distance to travel due to the curvature of that spacetime.
    In essence the speed of light is always costant at "c", no matter which way you look at it.
     
  12. Farsight

    Messages:
    3,492
    Amazing! The guy said what he said. Einstein said this:

    "Second, this consequence shows that the law of the constancy of the speed of light no longer holds, according to the general theory of relativity, in spaces that have gravitational fields. As a simple geometric consideration shows, the curvature of light rays occurs only in spaces where the speed of light is spatially variable."

    It's there in black and white. Everybody can go and read it at the Einstein digital archive. To assert that Einstein said something different and "meant" that light has a longer distance to travel is absurd. Paddoboy, you are ignorant, and dogmatic, so you're going to stay ignorant. Which is why you absolutely deserve to be on ignore.
     
  13. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,549
    Words are an ambiguous language compared to mathematics; lacking the accuracy and precision.

    So why exactly did you become an "I.T. Guy"? Your constant heresy makes me think you must regret something in life. If so, you could always try drugs to give your life meaning.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
  14. wellwisher Banned Banned

    Messages:
    5,160
    If science had decided to use polar coordinates (radius, angle 1, angle 2, time) instead of cartesian coordinates (x,y,z,t) the philosophers would be arguing the meaning of those two special angles, when it comes to the nature of reality. The curvature of space and time, due to gravity, would be now connected to the philosophy of the meaning of these angles. This almost seems more appealing, since curvature and angles have more in common than curvature and squared sides. The convention came before relativity and it was to late to change oars in midstream.

    What happens is the choice of the convention becomes a consensus point of agreement. A consensus point of agreement is not a hard fact of nature, but will nevertheless be treated like an absolute. We then reason as though the point of agreement is not arbitrary, subjective ,and floating in the air. Rather we assume it is anchored in hard reality, even though it is sort of subjective like above. The result is, castles in air appear grounded.

    For example, if we assumed as a consensus point of agreement, the dog is the best animal on the planet, this becomes a social convention that takes on the weight of a fact. This "fact" becomes the foundation for further experiments and further logical extrapolation. As we extrapolate more and more we can lose trace of the airy origins that make entire systems castles in the air.

    Math does not always help ground us, since you can math model anything including the special effects, not connected to reality, found within physics game engines. Math can take on a life of its own based on the point of agreement that math is pure. Math has built in impurities, that are ignored, due to points of agreement that define math as pure.

    For example, if I have a gallon of gas and divide this by 1/2 I have two gallons on gas. If we assume math does not doctor the result, one extra gallon of gas appears out of the void in violation of energy conservation. If need to complete an energy balance, the math operation is actually very energy intensive and adds the energy equivalent of one gallon of gas.

    Math was never intended to lead, because it has hidden tricks that are allowed due to points of agreement. It can still be useful for creating synthetic, since the mystery of the extra gallon of gas, may allow insight into an invention that is not in natural nature; contrived addendum.
     
  15. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,549
    I barely read half of that.

    Didn't finish one paragraph.
     
  16. QuarkHead Remedial Math Student Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,740
    Re-read your citation from John Baez - it is spacetime that curves, not space
    No it is not, and anyway, who mentioned fields in this context?

    Mostly in threads that you participate in
     
    exchemist likes this.
  17. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,454
    Don't blame you: he seems to be confusing the concept of space with the choice of coordinate system, doesn't he? The rest seems to be one of Wellwisher's good-natured rambles, about nothing in particular. I imagine if one were to try discussing science with Winnie the Pooh it might be a similar experience

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    .
     
    Beer w/Straw likes this.
  18. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,549
    Ah OK. I didn't even suspect wellwisher had nice intentions. I've read too much of Farsight's fallacies that it has left me bitter.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  19. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,454
    I've never known Wellwisher to be rude, even when I have on occasion provoked him.
     
  20. Farsight

    Messages:
    3,492
    In a gravitational field. In an electromagnetic field, space is curved. Google on electromagnetic geometry and check out The role of the potentials in electromagnetism by Percy Hammond. See this above the end-note: "We conclude that the field describes the curvature that characterizes the electromagnetic interaction".

    Exchemist suggested space didn't really exist, and I countered that by saying what Einstein said: a field is a state of space. Einstein thought of space as something real, something there, something you could stress.

    You can hold up your hands and see the space between them. You can waggle your hands and you can see motion. But you can't see time.
     
  21. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,549
    I can't see space while I'm sleeping.

    But I do wake up sometime later!
     
  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,543
    You can continue to misconstrue and misinterpret what the great man said till the cows come home.
    It does not for one minute change the fact as accepted by mainstream physics, that the local speed of light is always "c" or constant, nor the fact that in no FoR do we ever see light as stopped.
    Any observed apparent slowing of light speed, is simply due to the fact that in curved spacetime, light has a longer path to travel.

    Now if you propose any different Farsight, why not write a scientific paper and get it peer reviewed.
    I mean just by writing a book on the subject, and publishing and promoting it yourself, with sales limited probably to near family if that, does not really count.
    And at the same time, you could also give your TOE to be peer reviewed.
    Then come back and let us know how you faired.
     
  23. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,454
    Actually, just for the benefit of anybody who is still following this, I said the opposite.
     

Share This Page